Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #1

[Blomquist]

The first-degree murder charge is based on the forcible confinement allegations, Kavanagh said. The charge, often used in planned and premeditated murders, is also used when someone is killed while they are being forcibly confined.

“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/15/first-degree-murder-charge-to-be-laid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/

So lets assume they have the correct 'accused'.... and we know that both are not talking according to their lawyers.... THey (LE)have also said that they don't know if there was a 3rd person.....So....Who on earth has sat down with them and said that TB was not allowed to leave? A ghost ?

 

[ReignBRF]

So lets assume they have the correct 'accused'.... and we know that both are not talking according to their lawyers.... THey (LE)have also said that they don't know if there was a 3rd person.....So....Who on earth has sat down with them and said that TB was not allowed to leave? A ghost ?

There is a separate thread, for innocent or duped.

 

[Archangel7]

So lets assume they have the correct 'accused'.... and we know that both are not talking according to their lawyers.... THey (LE)have also said that they don't know if there was a 3rd person.....So....Who on earth has sat down with them and said that TB was not allowed to leave? A ghost ?

Would you volunteer to stay and be killed?
TB didn't auto-ignite, or spontaneously combust, he was dead before the fire per previous MSM reporting.

 

[Blomquist]

There is a separate thread, for innocent or duped.

I was answering a question on this thread... I doubt the original poster would find my answer if it absconded to another thread.... thanks for the information though.

 

[Blomquist]

Would you volunteer to stay and be killed?
TB didn't auto-ignite, or spontaneously combust, he was dead before the fire per previous MSM reporting.

I dont see why you would ask if I would stay and be killed...sorry if I am missing your your meaning.

I dont suppose tB did spontaneously combust and most likely he was dead before the fire was lit. BUT... that does not mean he was killed inside the truck. He could have been killed in Brantford (where phone was found) outside of truck, as they were looking at it...maybe two people started having a disagreement which escalated OUTSIDE of the truck. Maybe they stopped somewhere else and got out... there are a lot of possibilities .....IMO

 

[THXGuru]

.maybe two people started having a disagreement which escalated OUTSIDE of the truck. Maybe they stopped somewhere else and got out... there are a lot of possibilities .....IMO

It DOES NOT work like that. LE has stated that they believe that TB died inside the truck. What more do you need? The evidence is the evidence.

There is no a "lot" of possibilities.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It DOES NOT work like that. LE has stated that they believe that TB died inside the truck. What more do you need? The evidence is the evidence.

There is no a "lot" of possibilities.

Technically...if you search on TB killed in truck you will find that this is not from LE, but a "source"...do NOT doubt LE has the evidence, but we just have the rumours.

--

Tim Bosma was killed inside his truck following a struggle, a source says.

Bosma, who police say was found burned "beyond recognition" at an undisclosed Waterloo location, "did not die in the fire," said the source.

"He didn't burn alive."

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

 

[THXGuru]

Technically...if you search on TB killed in truck you will find that this is not from LE, but a "source"...do doubt LE has the evidence, but we just have the rumours.

--

Tim Bosma was killed inside his truck following a struggle, a source says.

Bosma, who police say was found burned "beyond recognition" at an undisclosed Waterloo location, "did not die in the fire," said the source.

"He didn't burn alive."

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

The forcible confinement charge confirms that LE believe TB died in the truck. Forcible confinement means TB never made it to a second destination before he died. MOO

Now, defense could say TB did make it to another destination....However, the defense would need to show some evidence that this was in fact possible, ie, witnesses, marked video, etc etc, but they can't just say "maybe he made it there"" as Bloomquist makes it look...JMO

 

[Archangel7]

I dont see why you would ask if I would stay and be killed...sorry if I am missing your your meaning.

I dont suppose tB did spontaneously combust and most likely he was dead before the fire was lit. BUT... that does not mean he was killed inside the truck. He could have been killed in Brantford (where phone was found) outside of truck, as they were looking at it...maybe two people started having a disagreement which escalated OUTSIDE of the truck. Maybe they stopped somewhere else and got out... there are a lot of possibilities .....IMO

You posed above....."Who on earth has sat down with them and said that TB was not allowed to leave? A ghost ?" Blomquist

If TB is dead and if he was all down for the test ride. He obviously wasn't going to voluntarily hang around and be killed, would you? So now we have a normally considered(by a reasonable person) a routine test ride with two other people and now TB is dead. So any reasonable person would see that unless TB auto ignited he wasn't allowed to leave and then was killed/burned.

This is called reasoning and deduction. That's why the question of you hanging around, obviously one wouldn't.

 

[Blomquist]

It DOES NOT work like that. LE has stated that they believe that TB died inside the truck. What more do you need? The evidence is the evidence.

There is no a "lot" of possibilities.

Sorry to differ but it most certainly does work like that. LE can state whatever they like (and they often do) but without facts whatever is said is purely suggestion. To say they BELIEVE he died in the truck is not the same as saying they KNOW he died in the truck. What I need is facts, facts and more facts...not suggestion, beliefs and speculation. There is factual evidence and there is evidence that someone BELIEVES to be so... If I were on trial for murder, they had better have absolute facts...because beliefs can be ripped to shreds....

I believe there could be a man in the moon who has a white hat and three legs... but I don't know that I am right on that !!!

 

[Blomquist]

You posed above....."Who on earth has sat down with them and said that TB was not allowed to leave? A ghost ?" Blomquist

If TB is dead and if he was all down for the test ride. He obviously wasn't going to voluntarily hang around and be killed, would you? So now we have a normally considered(by a reasonable person) a routine test ride with two other people and now TB is dead. So any reasonable person would see that unless TB auto ignited he wasn't allowed to leave and then was killed/burned.

This is called reasoning and deduction. That's why the question of you hanging around, obviously one wouldn't.

There are many reasonable deductions.... and they have come from several users of this site...

 

[Sillybilly]

Generally, yeah - but theft and confinement? Not so much. As I read it, the confinement charge is defeated with proof that a person willingly went with those charged, without force or duress etc being used. This was obviously the case with TB who volunteered.

<snip>

What is it that people don't understand about the word "confinement"? It's not called "forcible going with". It is confining a person against their will .. they want to leave and are not allowed to do so.

from:
http://www.mpjlaw.ca/Kidnapping-Forcible-Confinement-criminal-code-279

The Criminal Code of Canada defines Forcible Confinement as:

(2) Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty

Pretty sure that when TB realized he was going to be killed, he would have wanted to leave but was not allowed to do so.
THAT is confinement !!

JMO

 

[bessie]

Sorry to differ but it most certainly does work like that. LE can state whatever they like (and they often do) but without facts whatever is said is purely suggestion. To say they BELIEVE he died in the truck is not the same as saying they KNOW he died in the truck. What I need is facts, facts and more facts...not suggestion, beliefs and speculation. There is factual evidence and there is evidence that someone BELIEVES to be so... If I were on trial for murder, they had better have absolute facts...because beliefs can be ripped to shreds....

I believe there could be a man in the moon who has a white hat and three legs... but I don't know that I am right on that !!!

This is a true crime discussion board, not a courtroom. It is not necessary to have all of the facts in hand to participate in the discussions on this board. Please do not badger the other members with repeated demands for facts which you are well aware are not available at this time.

Thank you.

 

[Annie1004]

Can you elaborate on why you are so convinced of his guilt when we have very little evidence at this point.

Do you think there is any need for a trial or do you feel he is guilty by way of the court of public opinion? TIA

Maybe "we" have little evidence at this point, but the Crown has plenty to charge DM and his buddy. I don't ever use the expression "I told you so," but in this case I will make an exception.

<modsnip> MOO.

 

[Carli]

<snip>

What is it that people don't understand about the word "confinement"? It's not called "forcible going with". It is confining a person against their will .. they want to leave and are not allowed to do so.

from:
http://www.mpjlaw.ca/Kidnapping-Forcible-Confinement-criminal-code-279

The Criminal Code of Canada defines Forcible Confinement as:

(2) Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty

Pretty sure that when TB realized he was going to be killed, he would have wanted to leave but was not allowed to do so.
THAT is confinement !!

JMO

What is it that people don't understand about the CC with respect to kidnapping and forcible confinement - two elements under the same section of the law - that states:

(3) In proceedings under this section, the fact that the person in relation to whom the offence is alleged to have been committed did not resist is not a defence unless the accused proves that the failure to resist was not caused by threats, duress, force or exhibition of force.

If evidence is forthcoming to prove that TB was murdered inside the truck, then it is reasonable to assume he probably attempted to get away from his assailant and failed because it would be highly unusual for someone to willingly allow their own murder (although it has happened before.) However, we still don't know who may have left the truck, and when, or who else may have entered the truck, and whether TB was able to exit the truck without resistance. DNA and witnesses will eventually fill in the blanks.

 

[Blomquist]

Maybe "we" have little evidence at this point, but the Crown has plenty to charge DM and his buddy. I don't ever use the expression "I told you so," but in this case I will make an exception.

<modsnip> MOO.

Does the Crown have plenty?? I have known the Crown to lay charges with very little to go on...sometimes just one persons say so !!! When are you going to use the expression "I told you so" ?

I am not trying to convince anyone I have been pointing out things that I feel are important the same as everyone else. The FACT that my points are in contrast to what you may believe does not invalidate my points any more than yours. <modsnip>

 

[Blomquist]

This is a true crime discussion board, not a courtroom. It is not necessary to have all of the facts in hand to participate in the discussions on this board. Please do not badger the other members with repeated demands for facts which you are well aware are not available at this time.

Thank you.

With respect...
I was not badgering for facts from members of WS I was saying I want more facts in the case to make a better call on the case as a whole. I am well aware that facts are limited which is why I am waiting for more....not from those who do not know but from LE who is supposed to know. I hope that explains that my previous post was misinterpreted. Thank you

 

[Sillybilly]

What is it that people don't understand about the CC with respect to kidnapping and forcible confinement - two elements under the same section of the law - that states:

(3) In proceedings under this section, the fact that the person in relation to whom the offence is alleged to have been committed did not resist is not a defence unless the accused proves that the failure to resist was not caused by threats, duress, force or exhibition of force.

If evidence is forthcoming to prove that TB was murdered inside the truck, then it is reasonable to assume he probably attempted to get away from his assailant and failed because it would be highly unusual for someone to willingly allow their own murder (although it has happened before.) However, we still don't know who may have left the truck, and when, or who else may have entered the truck, and whether TB was able to exit the truck without resistance. DNA and witnesses will eventually fill in the blanks.

IMO, the truck has nothing to do with it. There is nothing in the charge that specifies that confinement is within a vehicle or otherwise. If I confine someone on my front lawn or in my attic is irrelevant ... it's the fact that I prevented them from leaving when they would have wished to do so.

IMO, anyone who claims Tim was allowed to be as mobile as he wished is grasping at straws.

 

[THXGuru]

IMO, the truck has nothing to do with it..

The truck has everything to do with this case moo

 

[Sillybilly]

The truck has everything to do with this case moo

I was referring to the confinement aspect ... whether he was confined inside or outside the vehicle will not make any difference to the fact he was confined.

ETA: Please either quote my full quote, or indicate that it was snipped so that my initial post is not misinterpreted.