Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #2

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Don't the DM-was-framed theories require a whole lot of people to be involved in the scam, such as test driver #1 and possibly LE?

The frame up linked last night required lots of people to lie to make it work, which is why it ultimately failed. It was also perpetrated by someone who was obviously mentally ill, not "OC".

AND in that case there was no physical evidence....only eye witness testimony. One of my opinions is that this isn't the first crime DM has been involved in and he thought he was untouchable....so he did a half assed job of covering his tracks. Why did he burn the body? Easy way to dispose of it and as it has been pointed out a decomposing body could attract predators and be a nuisance. As for the seats....I would think that he wanted to use the truck at some point and having blood soaked seats would make the truck less useable. MOO

I do agree that there are a couple of things about the case that don't make complete sense to me (hopefully will be cleared up at trial)....why did he leave the trailer at his moms? Doesn't sound like he was close with her. But I also don't believe that points to a set up either bc it would have been more damaging and easier to pull off to leave it at the hangar. IMO
 
Incomplete burning doesn't make sense. If you have an incinerator designed to make remains nothing more than ash and small bone fragments, why would you not follow through and make the remains completely unidentifiable, and again, why wouldn't you dispose of them elsewhere, like scattering the ashes of a loved one? Who goes through all that trouble and then doesn't bother to follow through, especially when it comes to something so important, that doesn't make sense to me still.

I don't think we know the condition of the remains, or the final disbursement of them, unless I missed something.

That said, I don't operate on the assumption that criminals' motives and reasoning in each action will match my own. And I don't assume, if something appears 'illogical' in the absence of full details, that it equals a frame-up.

And in the larger picture I don't really understand your point: Tim Bosma was murdered. We know his remains were burned beyond recognition. Therefore someone thought burning his body was the right way to proceed.

I disagree with the implied idea that only someone who was not Dellen Millard could have possibly made that decision. Murderers dispose of their victim's bodies all the time, often on their own property, and including using fire, to varying degrees of successful evidence elimination that doesn't particularly seem correlated to wealth or intelligence in my experience.
 
Why does test driver number one have to be in on the scam?.

Sorry--I know you only joined recently; I've been following the case from the beginning, and the Dellen Millard Was Framed theories often, by the time a full iteration of the case details is completely hashed over, end up implying that everyone was either in on it or deluded, including SB. In the past, the fact that the first test driver had a 'heavy accent' has been used to make conspiracy theory hay.

So you do believe DM went on the first test drive, calling the first man with a similar truck on the same burner phone he later used to call TB?
 
I do agree that there are a couple of things about the case that don't make complete sense to me (hopefully will be cleared up at trial)....why did he leave the trailer at his moms?

What appears to be unusual behaviour to many on this forum is typical criminal behaviour in my experience. My brother engaged in various criminal activities until his late twenties (now reformed to the best of my knowledge). Whenever the heat was on he would stash his drugs and stolen items at mom's house, without her knowledge, or he would lie about their ownership if they were too big to hide from her. He didn't expect her place to be searched, or care that he was implicating her in his crimes.
 
Decomposing bodies are large, inconvenient things to have around and attracting scavengers. Burning solves several problems. It absolutely makes sense.

I imagine if a body was taken deep enough into a forest or bush it would soon be food for wildlife and would not be seen.... What about digging a hole and burying the body in plastic? That would hide it wouldn't it? A well, a sewer or a quarry could effectively hide a body long enough for decomposition to be complete IMO ...

IMO the only reason for burning was to remove the forensic connection to the killer. MOO
 
What appears to be unusual behaviour to many on this forum is typical criminal behaviour in my experience. My brother engaged in various criminal activities until his late twenties (now reformed to the best of my knowledge). Whenever the heat was on he would stash his drugs and stolen items at mom's house, without her knowledge, or he would lie about their ownership if they were too big to hide from her. He didn't expect her place to be searched, or care that he was implicating her in his crimes.

I'll bet his drugs weren't so much that it needed to be stored in a trailer outside JMO

Did he also put the crackheads on his front lawn next to a fire pit? MOO

Not being rude here...just stating a comparison.... IMO JMO
 
I imagine if a body was taken deep enough into a forest or bush it would soon be food for wildlife and would not be seen.... What about digging a hole and burying the body in plastic? That would hide it wouldn't it? A well, a sewer or a quarry could effectively hide a body long enough for decomposition to be complete IMO ...

IMO the only reason for burning was to remove the forensic connection to the killer. MOO

Or possibly just for poops and giggles and peeps didn't really give a hoot or give much thought about trying to get rid of evidence.
 
Sorry--I know you only joined recently; I've been following the case from the beginning, and the Dellen Millard Was Framed theories often, by the time a full iteration of the case details is completely hashed over, end up implying that everyone was either in on it or deluded, including SB. In the past, the fact that the first test driver had a 'heavy accent' has been used to make conspiracy theory hay.

So you do believe DM went on the first test drive, calling the first man with a similar truck on the same burner phone he later used to call TB?

IMO test drive one may or may not be 'in on it'... how would anyone know at this point? I haven't seen anyone suggesting SB was 'involved' can you link those posts as I dont remember anything like that. JMO

I do think some people here have been trying to give all possible scenarios...and have taken a great deal of flack for daring to suggest anything other than the mainstream opinion.

I know you are not asking me...but my opinion is that it's possible DM went on a test drive. I am inclined to think he did....but I am not inclined to believe that makes him a murderer.... On the other hand maybe someone who looked like him went on a test drive....someone who deliberately set out to look like him ...... still up in the air for me...
 
AND in that case there was no physical evidence....only eye witness testimony. One of my opinions is that this isn't the first crime DM has been involved in and he thought he was untouchable....so he did a half assed job of covering his tracks. Why did he burn the body? Easy way to dispose of it and as it has been pointed out a decomposing body could attract predators and be a nuisance. As for the seats....I would think that he wanted to use the truck at some point and having blood soaked seats would make the truck less useable. MOO

I do agree that there are a couple of things about the case that don't make complete sense to me (hopefully will be cleared up at trial)....why did he leave the trailer at his moms? Doesn't sound like he was close with her. But I also don't believe that points to a set up either bc it would have been more damaging and easier to pull off to leave it at the hangar. IMO

I am thinking that if the seats were blood soaked then so was the floor and possibly a lot more. Therefore I do not think they were bloodsoaked imo.

I think the seats were removed to make room for a dead body to be transported to where it was taken. A dead body does not sit well on a seat, as it would have a tendency to fall over and surely whoever was driving would not wish to be 'watched' or fallen upon as they were driving...JMO

I think that maybe the body was tased and incapicitated whilst the rest took place. It's the only way I can see that would make the scene not messy. But once deceased the body would release fluids so I think the floor having been covered with plastic or some such waterproof material could have been used. I actually believe perpetrator had thought this through and had come prepared... I do not think they were interested in not soiling the seats.... JMO

Leaving body and truck at the hangar leaves it more likely to be considered a frame up. I am sure a perpetrator would realize this.... by leaving truck at MB's house it helps to connect the dots and make them lead to DM....JMO

I think DM must have a good relationship with his mother ...she is the one trusted to take care of his assets !!! MOO
 
If he thought that his farm was a safe enough place to hide a body where it would never be discovered, why bother burning it? It doesn't make sense.

If he thought that hiding a truck at his mother's house was good enough to keep it from being discovered, why did bother removing the seats? It is illogical.

I think the theory of 'if there was exculpatory evidence it would have been found by now' is a complete fallacy, the police haven't even managed to find the third person who was driving the Yukon, nor are they even sure now whether or not there was a third person, how does that prove that they have discovered everything of relevance so far? It gives me no confidence that they have uncovered everything that could have an impact on determining who the real killer is. In fact, it still leads me to question the competency of their entire investigation, honestly.

And since everyone likes to argue semantics here, in regards to your last paragraph, if they have committed the crime, they would not be considered to be sitting in jail in innocence. He has not even had his first bail hearing from what I recall, so doesn't that then put him into the category of those you consider to be sitting in silence in jail although innocent? And if he feels justified in waiting for his day in court to prove it, would he not also fall into that category as you described it?

Killers tend to kill, destroy evidence, dispose of evidence etc., based upon a few factors you aren't aware of.

Early in an investigation a broad approach is taken in many subject. The number of suspects in one example, until the evidence/investigation eliminates or adds to the number of suspects. Nothing to see there or read into.

If a murder is committed by "Joe Blow" and he is jailed, he can actually be "innocent" if the "contravention" or "murder" was justified. He would normally be getting out on bail, but perhaps he can't for whatever reason make bail(his deficit, not the Courts) and is awaiting trial.

There is a Judicial process you can educate yourself on....it starts with things like arrest, arraignment, RCC, bail hearing, preliminary and pretrial hearings, etc., etc. Justice follows a sequential path especially WRT right to release/bail, yet both still sit in jail. It appears their bail hearing has come and gone.

In my experience, very few suspects stay incarcerated until trial if truly innocent and uninvolved. The evidence, their statement, witnesses, etc. would shed light on a justifiable release on bail. So far we have seen no evidence of this and likely wouldn't see it with a publication ban in place.
However we do see them still incarcerated.

Once again, I'll say this about VIP/witness protection.....jail is a very poor place for witness protection if DM has acquired the wings and halo his fans are providing.

Evidence was collected, an affidavit was sworn, an arrest made, months and months have passed, we are at the Judicial Pretrial and both are still in jail.

That simply appears very very bad for the two of them as far as involvement.

Could they be innocent? Yes because after arrest and charges laid only a Jury can technically decide legal guilt or innocence at trial. However the Crown could drop charges if warranted by evidence to do so.

The real question currently is were they involved/did they do it? From the evidence so far and the way a judicial system works from arrest thru bail to pretrial/trial, I'd say yes, so far, so does the Hamilton Police Dept.
 
IMO test drive one may or may not be 'in on it'... how would anyone know at this point? I haven't seen anyone suggesting SB was 'involved' can you link those posts as I dont remember anything like that. JMO

<modsnip>

I know you are not asking me...but my opinion is that it's possible DM went on a test drive. I am inclined to think he did....but I am not inclined to believe that makes him a murderer.... On the other hand maybe someone who looked like him went on a test drive....someone who deliberately set out to look like him ...... still up in the air for me...

I am thinking that if the seats were blood soaked then so was the floor and possibly a lot more. Therefore I do not think they were bloodsoaked imo.

I think the seats were removed to make room for a dead body to be transported to where it was taken. A dead body does not sit well on a seat, as it would have a tendency to fall over and surely whoever was driving would not wish to be 'watched' or fallen upon as they were driving...JMO

I think that maybe the body was tased and incapicitated whilst the rest took place. It's the only way I can see that would make the scene not messy. But once deceased the body would release fluids so I think the floor having been covered with plastic or some such waterproof material could have been used. I actually believe perpetrator had thought this through and had come prepared... I do not think they were interested in not soiling the seats.... JMO

Leaving body and truck at the hangar leaves it more likely to be considered a frame up. I am sure a perpetrator would realize this.... by leaving truck at MB's house it helps to connect the dots and make them lead to DM....JMO

I think DM must have a good relationship with his mother ...she is the one trusted to take care of his assets !!! MOO

Good point about the seats....I hadn't considered that as a possible reason they were removed. Why do you think they didn't put them back afterwards? IIRC the seats haven't been found....makes me think they were disposed of and if so, why?

<modsnip>
 
Killers tend to kill, destroy evidence, dispose of evidence etc., based upon a few factors you aren't aware of.

Early in an investigation a broad approach is taken in many subject. The number of suspects in one example, until the evidence/investigation eliminates or adds to the number of suspects. Nothing to see there or read into.

If a murder is committed by "Joe Blow" and he is jailed, he can actually be "innocent" if the "contravention" or "murder" was justified. He would normally be getting out on bail, but perhaps he can't for whatever reason make bail(his deficit, not the Courts) and is awaiting trial.

There is a Judicial process you can educate yourself on....it starts with things like arrest, arraignment, RCC, bail hearing, preliminary and pretrial hearings, etc., etc. Justice follows a sequential path especially WRT right to release/bail, yet both still sit in jail. It appears their bail hearing has come and gone.

In my experience, very few suspects stay incarcerated until trial if truly innocent and uninvolved. The evidence, their statement, witnesses, etc. would shed light on a justifiable release on bail. So far we have seen no evidence of this and likely wouldn't see it with a publication ban in place.
However we do see them still incarcerated.

Once again, I'll say this about VIP/witness protection.....jail is a very poor place for witness protection if DM has acquired the wings and halo his fans are providing.

Evidence was collected, an affidavit was sworn, an arrest made, months and months have passed, we are at the Judicial Pretrial and both are still in jail.

That simply appears very very bad for the two of them as far as involvement.

Could they be innocent? Yes because after arrest and charges laid only a Jury can technically decide legal guilt or innocence at trial. However the Crown could drop charges if warranted by evidence to do so.

The real question currently is were they involved/did they do it? From the evidence so far and the way a judicial system works from arrest thru bail to pretrial/trial, I'd say yes, so far, so does the Hamilton Police Dept.

Archangel, you always have such thorough and useful responses. Thanks! Are you aware of any cases where a "do not contact" list of individuals is removed prior to trial? For example, is it possible that DM or MS would not be able to contact the individuals on their lists until the trial is complete? I have been looking for cases of this but haven't found anything.
 
Killers tend to kill, destroy evidence, dispose of evidence etc., based upon a few factors you aren't aware of.

Early in an investigation a broad approach is taken in many subject. The number of suspects in one example, until the evidence/investigation eliminates or adds to the number of suspects. Nothing to see there or read into.

If a murder is committed by "Joe Blow" and he is jailed, he can actually be "innocent" if the "contravention" or "murder" was justified. He would normally be getting out on bail, but perhaps he can't for whatever reason make bail(his deficit, not the Courts) and is awaiting trial.

There is a Judicial process you can educate yourself on....it starts with things like arrest, arraignment, RCC, bail hearing, preliminary and pretrial hearings, etc., etc. Justice follows a sequential path especially WRT right to release/bail, yet both still sit in jail. It appears their bail hearing has come and gone.

In my experience, very few suspects stay incarcerated until trial if truly innocent and uninvolved. The evidence, their statement, witnesses, etc. would shed light on a justifiable release on bail. So far we have seen no evidence of this and likely wouldn't see it with a publication ban in place.
However we do see them still incarcerated.

Once again, I'll say this about VIP/witness protection.....jail is a very poor place for witness protection if DM has acquired the wings and halo his fans are providing.

Evidence was collected, an affidavit was sworn, an arrest made, months and months have passed, we are at the Judicial Pretrial and both are still in jail.

That simply appears very very bad for the two of them as far as involvement.

Could they be innocent? Yes because after arrest and charges laid only a Jury can technically decide legal guilt or innocence at trial. However the Crown could drop charges if warranted by evidence to do so.

The real question currently is were they involved/did they do it? From the evidence so far and the way a judicial system works from arrest thru bail to pretrial/trial, I'd say yes, so far, so does the Hamilton Police Dept.


I will just add that there are people sitting in jail who are innocent and also people on ridiculous conditions whilst waiting years for a trial. To allude to something that suggests this does not happen is simply untrue IMO

I gather you are verified Law Enforcement and not a Judge, Prosecutor or Lawyer who would have been schooled in Law. Not that you need to be one to know the Law... tis true...Thank you for your opinion.... but I guess like all of our opinions they can be liked or left.

There are the unknown unknowns and there are things we know we know - Blomquist .... MOO
 
Archangel, you always have such thorough and useful responses. Thanks! Are you aware of any cases where a "do not contact" list of individuals is removed prior to trial? For example, is it possible that DM or MS would not be able to contact the individuals on their lists until the trial is complete? I have been looking for cases of this but haven't found anything.

So long as DM and MS are in jail they will have a no contact list IMO

The no contact list is to ensure that alibis cannot be set up and imo to prevent the accused from trying to find out anything that could exonerate them. To get the info an accused would need to have the person go to his lawyer...in order to do so he would have to hope the person went of their own free will or at the prompting of another. There could also be a restriction on the lawyer in regard to the no contact list if indirect contact is included IMO... not sure that is the case though
 
So long as DM and MS are in jail they will have a no contact list IMO

The no contact list is to ensure that alibis cannot be set up and imo to prevent the accused from trying to find out anything that could exonerate them. To get the info an accused would need to have the person go to his lawyer...in order to do so he would have to hope the person went of their own free will or at the prompting of another. There could also be a restriction on the lawyer in regard to the no contact list if indirect contact is included IMO... not sure that is the case though

I would also add intimidating witnesses to the reason for no contact. I also believe that out of respect to the family of the deceased they are on that list to prevent undue stress on them....I don't think it's fair to say "prevent then from finding info that could exonerate them" as that is what he has a lawyer for. And my understanding is the lawyer doesn't have a "no contact" list and would be able to interview witnesses/etc as they see fit.
 
I'll bet his drugs weren't so much that it needed to be stored in a trailer outside JMO

Did he also put the crackheads on his front lawn next to a fire pit? MOO

Not being rude here...just stating a comparison.... IMO JMO

Well, one of the large unhidden stolen items was a boat on a trailer in the driveway - does that count for comparison?

Someone will have to explain "crackheads on his front lawn" to me, I missed that thread.
 
Well, one of the large unhidden stolen items was a boat on a trailer in the driveway - does that count for comparison?

Someone will have to explain "crackheads on his front lawn" to me, I missed that thread.


Sounds like he wasn't bothered who saw the boat or it was stolen from out of town JMO

The second reference was to putting bodies on ones own front yard, alleged innocent victims of a crime as it were.... HTH
 
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