Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #2

[Archangel7]

Archangel, you always have such thorough and useful responses. Thanks! Are you aware of any cases where a "do not contact" list of individuals is removed prior to trial? For example, is it possible that DM or MS would not be able to contact the individuals on their lists until the trial is complete? I have been looking for cases of this but haven't found anything.

Thank you JPC, my short answer(after trying for a few minutes to think of a real life example) is no, on criminal cases.

Any contact, including attempting to influence, or tamper in any way with anyone on that list would not set well with the Bench.

 

[lanman]

For those who believe that DM was the one to leave the trailer in his mother's driveway, which vehicle do you think he towed it with?

Probably his red Dodge ram.

"Kavanagh says forensic officers are focusing now on three vehicles that have been seized: Bosma's truck, the dark blue Yukon driven by Millard when he was arrested in Mississauga and a red Dodge Ram pickup that Millard is seen with in photos posted on Facebook."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2882383-clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder/

 

[cansleuther]

Probably his red Dodge ram.

There may be evidence to suggest that the red Ram was not drivable.

An employee of Millardair is currently selling some of the items that were being stored in the hangar online - one item being a rebuilt 6.1L Hemi. The only vehicle owned by DM that this engine would be compatible with is his Dodge Ram - the Baha Jeep has a 4.6L Stroker and the Cobra has a 5.0L Mustang engine.

Perhaps DM had only been driving the Yukon because his Ram needed the rebuilt engine installed? And if this is the case, who else could have dropped off the trailer that night?

 

[Sillybilly]

Probably his red Dodge ram.

"Kavanagh says forensic officers are focusing now on three vehicles that have been seized: Bosma's truck, the dark blue Yukon driven by Millard when he was arrested in Mississauga and a red Dodge Ram pickup that Millard is seen with in photos posted on Facebook."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2882383-clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder/

Apparently LE has video surveillance from DM's neighbours on Maple Gate and there's also the witness who observed the trailer being dropped at MB's on Tinsmith. Hopefully the video and witness' observations will be helpful in determining activities/timelines of DM or others who may be involved at either location.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2879468-neighbours-miss-dellen-millard-s-quiet-mother/

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/2013/05/12/tim-bosma-case-mom-pleads-for-sons-safe-return

 

[Juballee]

Killers tend to kill, destroy evidence, dispose of evidence etc., based upon a few factors you aren't aware of.

Early in an investigation a broad approach is taken in many subject. The number of suspects in one example, until the evidence/investigation eliminates or adds to the number of suspects. Nothing to see there or read into.

If a murder is committed by "Joe Blow" and he is jailed, he can actually be "innocent" if the "contravention" or "murder" was justified. He would normally be getting out on bail, but perhaps he can't for whatever reason make bail(his deficit, not the Courts) and is awaiting trial.

There is a Judicial process you can educate yourself on....it starts with things like arrest, arraignment, RCC, bail hearing, preliminary and pretrial hearings, etc., etc. Justice follows a sequential path especially WRT right to release/bail, yet both still sit in jail. It appears their bail hearing has come and gone.

In my experience, very few suspects stay incarcerated until trial if truly innocent and uninvolved. The evidence, their statement, witnesses, etc. would shed light on a justifiable release on bail. So far we have seen no evidence of this and likely wouldn't see it with a publication ban in place.
However we do see them still incarcerated.

Once again, I'll say this about VIP/witness protection.....jail is a very poor place for witness protection if DM has acquired the wings and halo his fans are providing.

Evidence was collected, an affidavit was sworn, an arrest made, months and months have passed, we are at the Judicial Pretrial and both are still in jail.

That simply appears very very bad for the two of them as far as involvement.

Could they be innocent? Yes because after arrest and charges laid only a Jury can technically decide legal guilt or innocence at trial. However the Crown could drop charges if warranted by evidence to do so.

The real question currently is were they involved/did they do it? From the evidence so far and the way a judicial system works from arrest thru bail to pretrial/trial, I'd say yes, so far, so does the Hamilton Police Dept.

<modsnip>

I appreciate that you clarified somewhat your exposition on who you feel is acceptable to be sitting in jail while innocent, but what I hear you saying in your next paragraph, to me, concurs with my thinking that although the scope of the investigation may initially be broad, it quickly narrows down until the investigation is focused on such a tight beam, for example focusing on only the suspects they feel are guilty, that they can be blinded to, or overlook, or even sweep under the rug evidence that doesn't support their theory, in my opinion. Didn't someone here say that once the charges are laid, the scope of the investigation goes to solidifying the crowns position, if I remember correctly?

And I also appreciate that you seem to have admitted that it IS possible for an innocent person to stay incareracted until trial, and that it sounds like you have seen this more than once in your experience in LE, going by your statement.

I find it curious that this is the second time in the last couple of days that the small camp that seems to want to entertain the crazy notion of innocent until proven guilty, and are willing to discuss the possibility that all might not be what it seems, have been accused of being fans of DM, cannonizing him and now giving him wings and a halo. It is very easy for a large group of people to all believe one thing while a smaller group of people believe something entirely different without there being mockery, condescension, or the need to insult others. In reality, sometimes that smaller group turns out to be right. We should all have the right to our opinions without being subjected to derision from others here, in my opinion. Personally I think it is more likely that the ones you call fans of DM might actually really just be fans of justice, fans of the truth, or maybe just the kind of people who see fit to play the devils advocate when they see everyone jumping on the same band wagon, one that appears to them to have some pretty rickety wheels.

 

[Blomquist]

Thanks Coldpizza, and I got a "welcome" from Blomquist too!

More of an acknowledgement that you were on board ;-)...so heres a 'welcome' ..... I didnt get any when I arrived so dont feel too bad LOL

 

[Coldpizza]

More of an acknowledgement that you were on board ;-)...so heres a 'welcome' ..... I didnt get any when I arrived so dont feel too bad LOL

Sorry you weren't properly welcomed at the time, may be late but it's never too late!

:welcome: to WS Blomquist

 

[lanman]

There may be evidence to suggest that the red Ram was not drivable.

An employee of Millardair is currently selling some of the items that were being stored in the hangar online - one item being a rebuilt 6.1L Hemi. The only vehicle owned by DM that this engine would be compatible with is his Dodge Ram - the Baha Jeep has a 4.6L Stroker and the Cobra has a 5.0L Mustang engine.

Perhaps DM had only been driving the Yukon because his Ram needed the rebuilt engine installed? And if this is the case, who else could have dropped off the trailer that night?

I don't see how an engine block for sale can be evidence that the red Ram wasn't drivable. The engine for sale could have came from or be meant for some other vehicle. I've got a set of tires for my car in my garage, so it's like saying that this is evidence that it is possible my car doesn't have any tires on it True, it makes it possible, but it's not a very strong link.

If the engine that is for sale was designed to fit a Dodge Ram truck like DM has, then you might have really been on to something. But since it isn't, (according to this wiki list) I don't see how this engine for sale has any relavance whatsoever.

Great find on those for sale items though! (I just found them as well)

6.1 Hemi:

Applications:

2005–2010 Chrysler 300C SRT–8
2005–2008 Dodge Magnum SRT-8
2006–2010 Dodge Charger SRT-8
2006–2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8
2008–2010 Dodge Challenger SRT-8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine

 

[redheart]

I said deifying, not cannonizing. I said it because the suggestion was made that DM was heroically staying in prison to protect his mother from being murdered by organized crime if he tried to speak up to defend himself.

i.e., not only is he just a guy who had bad luck in being framed, any single negative implication about him is shouted down by a group that, while possibly small, is extremely determined to dominate the conversation (hence the reason I rarely post here). Anyone who was truly open minded about the situation wouldn't need to defend every single negative point that is made about DM, and try to refute every single piece of damning evidence. We forum posters will not affect a trial's outcome.

(I'm assuming that even if he is convicted, a few minds here will not change. Which leaves me wondering -- how much more evidence would be enough? Would you require video of him doing the deed with his own hands? I suppose that could be attributed to OC's access to CGI studios. Is the burden of proof higher for DM because he is a wealthy, handsome, and partially-highly-educated man?)

I'm still curious if you believe DM went on the first test drive with the other man with a similar truck to Tim Bosma's, since for now he has been let out of the framing theory?

Yes, yes, yes to everything, but especially the bolded.

 

[cansleuther]

If the engine that is for sale was designed to fit a Dodge Ram truck like DM has, then you might have really been on to something. But since it isn't, (according to this wiki list) I don't see how this engine for sale has any relavance whatsoever.

A seller on eBay selling the exact same engine says it is compatible with a 2010 - 2005 Dodge Ram 3500, so whether the eBay list or the Wiki list is right is anyone's guess. Maybe someone who knows more about cars/trucks will provide some input!

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry ... wrong thread

 

[ArianeEmory]

(You're not in a scanner thread! *hug*)

 

[lanman]

A seller on eBay selling the exact same engine says it is compatible with a 2010 - 2005 Dodge Ram 3500, so whether the eBay list or the Wiki list is right is anyone's guess. Maybe someone who knows more about cars/trucks will provide some input!

I wouldn't be surprised if it will fit into the Ram, but to clarify my point, I meant that if this engine was one that originally came OUT of a Ram, then it would raise the possibility that the engine that was for sale was the original engine out of DM's red truck, and that the red truck currently doesn't have an engine installed.

What we do know is that LE has seized the red Ram, and the trailer. If the red truck wasn't used to take the trailer to MB's house, then why was it siezed?

I hope LE took samples of the grease on the trailer hitch before they towed it away. Forensics might be able to match the trailer with the truck that last towed it by examining the grease on the hitch.

 

[Sillybilly]

(You're not in a scanner thread! *hug*)

I see that what a blooper, huh?

Too many irons in the fire here ... thus Jack of all trades, master of none, LOL

 

[Alethea Dice]

Killers tend to kill, destroy evidence, dispose of evidence etc., based upon a few factors you aren't aware of.

Early in an investigation a broad approach is taken in many subject. The number of suspects in one example, until the evidence/investigation eliminates or adds to the number of suspects. Nothing to see there or read into.

If a murder is committed by "Joe Blow" and he is jailed, he can actually be "innocent" if the "contravention" or "murder" was justified. He would normally be getting out on bail, but perhaps he can't for whatever reason make bail(his deficit, not the Courts) and is awaiting trial.

There is a Judicial process you can educate yourself on....it starts with things like arrest, arraignment, RCC, bail hearing, preliminary and pretrial hearings, etc., etc. Justice follows a sequential path especially WRT right to release/bail, yet both still sit in jail. It appears their bail hearing has come and gone.

In my experience, very few suspects stay incarcerated until trial if truly innocent and uninvolved. The evidence, their statement, witnesses, etc. would shed light on a justifiable release on bail. So far we have seen no evidence of this and likely wouldn't see it with a publication ban in place.
However we do see them still incarcerated.

Once again, I'll say this about VIP/witness protection.....jail is a very poor place for witness protection if DM has acquired the wings and halo his fans are providing.

Evidence was collected, an affidavit was sworn, an arrest made, months and months have passed, we are at the Judicial Pretrial and both are still in jail.

That simply appears very very bad for the two of them as far as involvement.

Could they be innocent? Yes because after arrest and charges laid only a Jury can technically decide legal guilt or innocence at trial. However the Crown could drop charges if warranted by evidence to do so.

The real question currently is were they involved/did they do it? From the evidence so far and the way a judicial system works from arrest thru bail to pretrial/trial, I'd say yes, so far, so does the Hamilton Police Dept.

Not sure where you're from, but in Canada a bail hearing isn't automatic for a murder charge. The accused must apply for a hearing with the Superior Court and reverse onus applies. In other words, instead of the Crown showing why he/she should remain in custody (which is standard for lesser crimes), the accused must prove that continued detention is not necessary.

Certain other offences, including murder, judicial corruption and certain crimes against humanity are treated separately and are subject to a reverse onus. For these offences, section 522 of the Criminal Code states that the accused is automatically detained in custody unless he or she demonstrates, following a hearing before a superior court judge, that the detention is not justified.

http://www.icclr.law.ubc.ca/china_ccprcp/files/Presentations%20and%20Publications/03%20Bail%20Law%20in%20Canada_English.pdf

Furthermore, if he was denied bail, you would never know whether he had even applied or not. Bail hearings in Canada are always subject to a publication ban if the accused asks for it (and I can't imagine why he wouldn't). The only way you would know would be if he applied for and received bail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/supreme-court-upholds-blanket-publication-ban-for-bail-hearings/article1372806/

I don't know if statistics are kept for bail on first degree murder charges, but I've heard of very few who have actually obtained bail. Especially in a case with as much media attention as this one has.

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

Not sure where you're from, but in Canada a bail hearing isn't automatic for a murder charge. The accused must apply for a hearing with the Superior Court and reverse onus applies. In other words, instead of the Crown showing why he/she should remain in custody (which is standard for lesser crimes), the accused must prove that continued detention is not necessary.



http://www.icclr.law.ubc.ca/china_ccprcp/files/Presentations%20and%20Publications/03%20Bail%20Law%20in%20Canada_English.pdf

Furthermore, if he was denied bail, you would never know whether he had even applied or not. Bail hearings in Canada are always subject to a publication ban if the accused asks for it (and I can't imagine why he wouldn't). The only way you would know would be if he applied for and received bail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ication-ban-for-bail-hearings/article1372806/

I don't know if statistics are kept for bail on first degree murder charges, but I've heard of very few who have actually obtained bail. Especially in a case with as much media attention as this one has.

JMO

<modsnip>

It is correct as you reiterate and as I posted, that we wouldn't likely know the result and subsequent failure of bail due to the ban, thanks for re-enforcing that point.
You posted.... "Furthermore, if he was denied bail, you would never know whether he had even applied or not."

I would be interested in a viable reason, in your experience, why DM might possibly not apply for bail if he's not involved in theft and murder and simply sitting in jail, tuning his harp and polishing his halo?

The point you make on stats.....One reason that most that are charged and then denied bail is because they are charged properly and actually contravened the law. That would be true regardless of whom bears the onus.

 

[Blomquist]

I would be interested in a viable reason, in your experience, why DM might possibly not apply for bail if he's not involved in theft and murder and simply sitting in jail, tuning his harp and polishing his halo?

The point you make on stats.....One reason that most that are charged and then denied bail is because they are charged properly and actually contravened the law. That would be true regardless of whom bears the onus.

IMO I believe AD answered this by explaining that the high profile media scenario surrounding this case (and others like it) make it less likely for bail to be granted...or IMO for a lawyer to want to apply. I feel DP is better situated by staying as is for now, especially until FULL disclosure has been provided and can be used to request/obtain bail. FULL disclosure can take months and often a year or so to finally be provided. How can a lawyer base a bail hearing or a bail review on nothing ? You NEED to know what is happening and by the sound of it they are still waiting for LE to finish adding to the disclosure and submit it to the defense. JMO

Any bail hearing usually has the Crown providing alleged evidence that will prevent someone getting bail. But in a murder case such as this it would be a case of the Crown providing all they have and to date it looks like a trail of crumbs leading to DM...because as yet they have not apparently thought past the crumbs JMO So how far do you think a bail hearing would get when the Crown s basing their objection to bail based on that.?

Not too far and I think DP knows that and has advised his client to stay put and wait it out JMO MOO

I don't think DM has a halo..<modsnip>

 

[Alethea Dice]

<modsnip>

It is correct as you reiterate and as I posted, that we wouldn't likely know the result and subsequent failure of bail due to the ban, thanks for re-enforcing that point.
You posted.... "Furthermore, if he was denied bail, you would never know whether he had even applied or not."

I would be interested in a viable reason, in your experience, why DM might possibly not apply for bail if he's not involved in theft and murder and simply sitting in jail, tuning his harp and polishing his halo?

The point you make on stats.....One reason that most that are charged and then denied bail is because they are charged properly and actually contravened the law. That would be true regardless of whom bears the onus.

Well, actually, what you posted was "It appears their bail hearing has come and gone." That may or may not be true since a bail hearing is not automatic and must be applied for by the accused. Maybe he did apply and was declined. Maybe he hasn't applied yet because, as his lawyer stated, they were waiting for the disclosure, which last we heard is still not complete.

There are many reasons why a person might be denied bail for any crime, let alone one this serious and this widely covered by media, and it has nothing to do with whether they have been charged properly or are guilty of the crime. Some that would likely apply to DM are:

Primary Grounds:
- citizenship / ownership of a passport
- possibility of lengthy sentence

Secondary Grounds:
- seriousness of the offence
- surrounding circumstances of the offence and offender
- likelihood of lengthy sentence

Tertiary Grounds:
- to maintain confidence in the administration of justice, having regard to all the circumstances, including the apparent strength of the prosecution’s case, the gravity of the nature of the offence, the circumstances surrounding its commission and the potential for a lengthy term of imprisonment."

Considering the extensive media coverage in this case, the grisly details of the murder, and the public's propensity to assume guilt immediately upon arrest, I would think the Judge would be very likely to deny bail to "preserve the public's confidence in the administration of justice".

I don't believe I said that DM may not apply for bail, only that we wouldn't know if he did or not yet. If he hasn't, it doesn't mean that he won't. However, that being said, sometimes if the cards are stacked against you, why bother.

And I know I've never said that I thought he had either a halo or a harp. But if you do, that's certainly your right to have that opinion.

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

So we are practically at Judicial Pretrial without bail/and release because.....

a) No bail has been sought by an innocent man (innocent, per some people's opinion)?
b) Bail has been sought but denied to an innocent man (innocent, per some people's opinion)?

Is this a correct summation? If so, and with all the "evidence" pointing to a frame up/set up/planting of evidence by Police, etc. has anyone alerted the police to this?

 

[Archangel7]

IMO I believe AD answered this by explaining that the high profile media scenario surrounding this case (and others like it) make it less likely for bail to be granted...or IMO for a lawyer to want to apply. I feel DP is better situated by staying as is for now, especially until FULL disclosure has been provided and can be used to request/obtain bail. FULL disclosure can take months and often a year or so to finally be provided. How can a lawyer base a bail hearing or a bail review on nothing ? You NEED to know what is happening and by the sound of it they are still waiting for LE to finish adding to the disclosure and submit it to the defense. JMO

Any bail hearing usually has the Crown providing alleged evidence that will prevent someone getting bail. But in a murder case such as this it would be a case of the Crown providing all they have and to date it looks like a trail of crumbs leading to DM...because as yet they have not apparently thought past the crumbs JMO So how far do you think a bail hearing would get when the Crown s basing their objection to bail based on that.?

Not too far and I think DP knows that and has advised his client to stay put and wait it out JMO MOO

I don't think DM has a halo..<modsnip>

You mention FULL disclosure numerous times. If you would be so kind, would you define what FULL disclosure is(to you) and when it occurs in law and when will it be enough(to you) to move to the next Canadian Criminal Judicial step?

You see, they are going to have Judicial Pretrial soon and that's 'pert near impossible without full disclosure.

Now I agree, and have posted previously that evidence can continue to come in even during trial so literally there is never really FULL disclosure but enough to satisfy the Judicial System so as to move to the next step.