Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #2

[Coldpizza]

If you quote a post that had to be removed your post gets removed also.

Hth

 

[dizzy1]

I dont recall any poster specifically accusing HPS of planting or contaminating evidence in this case. I think there was a statement about how that is a possibility with LE as they have been known to do that from time to time, as we've probably all heard about at some point. In fact I think the poster that you might be referring to said nothing different, as a statement or opinion, than you just stated above about a few bad apples. The rest was hypothetical speak, not an accusation or a suggestion that HPS have in fact contaminated evidence. To say that is ever a possibility is not incorrect; to make a bold accusation would, of course, be wrong but IMO nobody went that far.

You are correct Snoofo, maybe I should have said "alluded to" rather than accused. Nobody directly accused, but I believe it was hinted at. My apologies for using the wrong wording.

 

[dizzy1]

DM had a squeaky-clean choirboy image? Is that with or without the pink Mohawk?

What my post actually said:
"My example would be DM and the squeaky clean choir-boy image some believe him to have."

I agree that lots of people have had bad experiences with police, but I think I should add that most of those that I know of did not do anything wrong to provoke the negative experience, but that's just the crowd I hang out with, perhaps other people have a wilder crowd to the take their personal data sample from.

:floorlaugh:

And although I have said this previously, I will reiterate it again, that I only put forth the notion, without any type of organized or direct theory or supposition, that it is possible that LE could have contaminated any crime scenes, or that a 'bad apple' could theortically plant or ignore evidence, after it was posted by a verified LE something to the effect that most frames involve police and that because it would be too hard to coordinate all of their efforts, that it automatically ruled out that possibility, which in my opinion it does not. These were not accusations, or even implications, I was merely pointing out the fact that it is possible, and you can easily look it up on google if you require verification. I believe even said verified LE then went on to comment that they agree that there is a lot of room for improvement in the areas of clean warrants for seaches and the possibility of having evidence thrown out because of the possibility of contamination, so really, LE is one of the ones 'accusing' (your words, although I think 'complaining' is a better word choice) LE of possibly doing sloppy police work occasionally, in my opinion.

I did post a correction where I stated I should have said 'alluded to' rather than 'accused'.

Again, I would love to read the post (link please) where LE is 'complaining' that LE is occasionally guilty of doing sloppy police work. TIA. I just want to make sure I understand this verified LE's post in the same context as is being stated.

 

[skatergirl]

BBM
Please link the verified LE post you speak of. TIA

Sorry to butt in here, but I believe these are the posts that were being referenced

BBM

Both Posted by AA earlier in this thread

My "argument" is that the system has progressed to the point of Pretrial with no bail apparently. Pretrial will lay it ALL out before a Judge and it will be dismissal or Trial, meaning there is enough guilt and or question of same to Try. There won't likely be much more damning evidence to disclose in the future.

So my argument is that there has been enough disclosure to show his involvement, thus no bail yet.

Unsubstantiated claims of setups and ridiculous unfounded claims of LE evidence planting doesn't help your side of the argument either.

Two things to remember.....

1) Never assume the cops know everything in an investigation. That's why they have TIP lines to call.

2) If you or others have all this "evidence" of setup, frame up, OC. professional hitmen, Corporate takeover, etc., etc., you should call the HPD immediately.

So we are practically at Judicial Pretrial without bail/and release because.....

a) No bail has been sought by an innocent man (innocent, per some people's opinion)?
b) Bail has been sought but denied to an innocent man (innocent, per some people's opinion)?

Is this a correct summation? If so, and with all the "evidence" pointing to a frame up/set up/planting of evidence by Police, etc. has anyone alerted the police to this?

IMO, this is a situation where the posts were taken out of context.

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM
Please link the verified LE post you speak of. TIA

Here is part of the [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725430&postcount=635"]post[/ame] that is being referred to:

Set ups and frame ups are easy to initiate, however they are hard to sustain because of the story the evidence actually tells and the way the evidence is discovered and then used by the prosecution. It would need to be LE initiated(foreknowledge and or planting of evidence or wrongly interpreting evidence), along with witnesses etc. Not everyone involved (on the prosecution side) would stand for dishonesty or for the injustice either.

And here is the [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9740137&postcount=448"]post[/ame] about sloppy police work.

I personally detest the fact that evidence can be used on and above the "poison fruit" theory. Get a warrant/Get the evidence or don't allow it in court. Justice disrepute be damned......I submit that Justice's reputation is irreversibly damaged every time the Queen's Bench allows ill gotten evidence without a proper warrant.

There was a previous one with a link to a particular case that this was referring to.

And here is Jubilee's explanation of their [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9733979&postcount=441"]post[/ame].

So many people here<modsnip> have put forth the idea of bad apples and crooked cops, that perhaps I should try the theory on for size too?

That conversation was actually in regards to why LE would have waited until Monday to search the hangar and farm.

JMO

 

[Juballee]

<modsnip>

I could certainly post the two links you are asking for if I knew how to, perhaps someone will help me.

<modsnip>

 

[ArianeEmory]

I am all in favor of putting to rest the idea that DM was framed with the help of LE.

 

[Juballee]

Here is part of the post that is being referred to:



And here is the post about sloppy police work.



There was a previous one with a link to a particular case that this was referring to.

And here is Jubilee's explanation of their post.



That conversation was actually in regards to why LE would have waited until Monday to search the hangar and farm.

JMO

Thank you Alethea, you found exactly the posts I was referring to, and much faster than I was able to. And again, I think that you have summed up the whole situation concisely, your attention to truth and details are much appreciated!

 

[Sillybilly]

The link where it is suggested that any frame up job was likely to involve police was posted by Archangel7 08/05/2013 at 9:50, post #635 in the Suspect 1
Dellen Millard thread.

Well, here is Post 635:

from:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9725430&postcount=635"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #2[/ame]

Set ups and frame ups are easy to initiate, however they are hard to sustain because of the story the evidence actually tells and the way the evidence is discovered and then used by the prosecution. It would need to be LE initiated(foreknowledge and or planting of evidence or wrongly interpreting evidence), along with witnesses etc. Not everyone involved (on the prosecution side) would stand for dishonesty or for the injustice either.

DP knows(lawyers are taught this)that a frame up defense is a very poor defense, whose validity (or lack of)is easily determined by the court simply by who actually initiated the opportunity, intent, etc., etc., and what the DIRECT EVIDENCE supports in that area of opportunity, intent, motive, etc.

It only takes a few minutes(usually in a Judicial Pretrial type setting if it gets that far) to "see" the truth of the criminal act or the stench of a injustice.

Now, the above was in reference to any possible LE involvement(as some have hinted) and the resulting relative ease in seeing the injustice by the Enforcement and Judicial establishment.

<b&ubm>

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well, here is Post 635:

from:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #2

<b&ubm>

Now all we need to find are those posts that "hinted" at LE involvement to determine whether the "hints" were actual theories of involvement or the generalities I mentioned above that were perhaps misread or assumed to be a "hint".

Or, my preference, finally let it go.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

I could certainly post the two links you are asking for if I knew how to, perhaps someone will help me.

<rsbm>

Just find the post you want, and right-click on the post number in the right-hand corner of the post, then choose "Copy Shortcut" and paste it into your current post.

 

[Archangel7]

DM had a squeaky-clean choirboy image? Is that with or without the pink Mohawk?

I agree that lots of people have had bad experiences with police, but I think I should add that most of those that I know of did not do anything wrong to provoke the negative experience, but that's just the crowd I hang out with, perhaps other people have a wilder crowd to the take their personal data sample from.

And although I have said this previously, I will reiterate it again, that I only put forth the notion, without any type of organized or direct theory or supposition, that it is possible that LE could have contaminated any crime scenes, or that a 'bad apple' could theortically plant or ignore evidence, after it was posted by a verified LE something to the effect that most frames involve police and that because it would be too hard to coordinate all of their efforts, that it automatically ruled out that possibility, which in my opinion it does not. These were not accusations, or even implications, I was merely pointing out the fact that it is possible, and you can easily look it up on google if you require verification. I believe even said verified LE then went on to comment that they agree that there is a lot of room for improvement in the areas of clean warrants for seaches and the possibility of having evidence thrown out because of the possibility of contamination, so really, LE is one of the ones 'accusing' (your words, although I think 'complaining' is a better word choice) LE of possibly doing sloppy police work occasionally, in my opinion.

Nope. I am not accusing LE of anything. The posts say and indicate what I meant. A Mod already warned of twisting words once.

Posters here have opened the door and either hinted, used innuendo or outright posted/used terminology that police have in the past caused arrest and incarceration intentionally. Posters say you only have to google it.
All to try to submit this as viable/reasonable speculation in the forum for DM's incarceration.

The posts of mine(being currently interpreted here by others) are responses to those people here, in a context of how easy it is to see a frame up/setup etc, etc and yes it would be physically easy to initiate(this was in the context of the "imagined" planting/setup etc.) but hard to sustain simply because as other forensic/investigative people do their job, the more obvious and out of place/out of sequence/out of timeline the "planted" evidence would be.

For example, I can hear a story of alleged frame up(usually on drugs) and with exacting details from the person relating the story, know almost with certainty if ANY impropriety of ANY kind took place. I'm certainly not alone in that respect, most experienced LE can too.

My reference to my dislike of the warrant thing in Canada, is that IMO it is ridiculous and petty for a Judicial system(I'm including Cops in this specific reference to Judicial) to allow/obtain evidence that has been obtained without a warrant under non exigent circumstances because otherwise, it "will cause JUSTICE(Canadian) to be found in disrepute". Too me that's ridiculous, petty and scary. Either you have search and seizure laws or you play like you do.
It simply comes down to how the Gov. sees you the citizen, LL&PH or POGG.
In other words individual freedom of the person or what best for the "whole".

So my previous post on room for improvement lie not with the police so much as with the Charter or the interpretation of same by the SCC.

As such I gave an example of a SCC Justice writing his opinion on R v Silveira where he stated that he believed there was no Charter violation by the cops(and I don't mean that they meant to violate the Charter to start with, simply followed apparently confusing Charter Rights).

He continued to write, even if there WAS A CHARTER VIOLATION, he agreed with another named SCC Justice that the evidence obtained should be admitted/used, to keep the reputation of "Justice" intact. Good Grief.

Thus my post on detesting the way the admission of evidence/warrant is batted about depending on what the SCC Justice thinks that day. Which lead to my Get a Warrant/Get the evidence/Admit it or vice.

To reiterate.....the above is not a notion I put forth, nor is it total supposition and theoretical in nature, it is what it is, reading comprehension of course, the reader must supply.

 

[bessie]

A question was raised. Now it's answerd. Drop the subject and move on.

Thanks.

 

[Archangel7]

It would seem so far, if things have progressed typically, that the Crown has received the LE report and Counsel for the accused has shared his client's story/proof/evidence with the Crown.

IIRC, they would have discussed each other's position and argued/negotiated some mutual path forward on what charges, will be tried, remembering that both sides now have a good understanding of what each other are after and what evidence supports each position.

Given the Sept. 12 date mentioned to set a Judicial Pretrial, possibly someone possibly isn't in agreement with something and they(both) are looking to run it by a Judge. Or it is possible a deal has been made, but they must run it by the Judge to make sure it isn't too lenient or too harsh given the evidence? Then too, there are usually the "feelers" put out to "poll" the Judge on what sentence he might favor, if the accused were to plead guilty.
The final possibility is of course, that the case/evidence/charges/etc. is so wrong and off base, that the charges against the accused will be dismissed. I would also think there could be discussion around separate/joint trial possibilities and legalities if dismissal isn't found.

It should present interesting results(if we could hear them). I guess that the only public MSM info that will come out is if dismissal is ordered.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[swedie]

It would be to me, of interest to find out if DM had visited say example, this business on Cawthra Road that Saturday when he was arrested by LE. He had been tailed by LE for four hours prior to his arrest and that tells me he gave indication of his involvement by where he had traveled, places he had been just prior to his arrest. Was he looking for tools such as saws to assist in the disposal of TB or perhaps a grinder to assist in effacing TB's truck? Was he searching for another propane tank for the incinerator? Although the information didn't come out until days later about the incinerator, it would still connect the dots. Along with the evidence LE already had, and trailing DM, tells me DM was up to something which solidified their proof of DM being connected to TB's case.

I will not be shocked to find out those who are on the do not contact lists are people and/or friends who know DM and MS, called LE with tips IDing them, DM's tattoos and gave LE other pertinent information on DM and MS to confirm they had the right guys which matched up with all the evidence. I know we cannot sleuth her, but I assume DM's gf will play a major role in assisting LE. Maybe MS's gf also. ALL JMO.

http://westwaymachinery.com/westway-machinery-content/uploads/2012/11/Westway-Machinery-Brochure.pdf

http://westwaymachinery.com/

 

[Snoofo]

It would seem so far, if things have progressed typically, that the Crown has received the LE report and Counsel for the accused has shared his client's story/proof/evidence with the Crown.

IIRC, they would have discussed each other's position and argued/negotiated some mutual path forward on what charges, will be tried, remembering that both sides now have a good understanding of what each other are after and what evidence supports each position.

Given the Sept. 12 date mentioned to set a Judicial Pretrial, possibly someone possibly isn't in agreement with something and they(both) are looking to run it by a Judge. Or it is possible a deal has been made, but they must run it by the Judge to make sure it isn't too lenient or too harsh given the evidence? Then too, there are usually the "feelers" put out to "poll" the Judge on what sentence he might favor, if the accused were to plead guilty.
The final possibility is of course, that the case/evidence/charges/etc. is so wrong and off base, that the charges against the accused will be dismissed. I would also think there could be discussion around separate/joint trial possibilities and legalities if dismissal isn't found.

It should present interesting results(if we could hear them). I guess that the only public MSM info that will come out is if dismissal is ordered.

Anyway, thoughts?

AA, do you think the discussions you presume have occurred included both accuseds' lawyers, the prosecutor and possibly the Judge? (MS' next court date is also Sept 12.) So one set of discussions or two?

I guess how it goes down until the 12th is anybody's guess. We have nothing for clues od disclosure or current status to go by. What I wonder, and maybe someone here will have a better idea, is if there were a dealmaking suspect #3, how does this individual (or more than one) fit in to the pre-trial as I imagine their information would form a big part of disclosure?

 

[Coldpizza]

I've moved some posts over to The Incinerator thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213364&page=21

 

[swedie]

These points I have clipped and pasted from numerous articles/reports, I have slightly revised, but not to twist their meaning. For me to link a site would make it a very long post. If one is interested in finding the article, just copy and paste the point below into google and it should bring you to that article. HTH

*TB was killed.
*DM and MS have been arrested and charged with first degree murder, DM also carries charges of theft and forcible confinement.
*Police say DM and TB's paths first crossed during a test drive in Bosma&#8217;s truck.
*DM has so far not co-operated with investigators, but his lawyer maintains he is innocent. DM is exercising his right to remain silent.
*DM has no criminal record.
*One thing the police are not considering is that Bosma was in any way involved with these people before his disappearance.
*MS's lawyer Tom Dungey, says his client will plead not guilty and he will &#8220;vigorously&#8221; fight the murder charge.
*TB and BO were contacted by someone telling them they were interested in buy their Dodge Ram 3500 diesel trucks. BO's truck is a newer model.
*TB and BO listed their trucks for sale on line. TB posted his cellular number for contact.
*BO "found them suspicious". The pair arrived on foot at his business in an industrial part of Etobicoke.
*BO saw multiple tattoos on arms of the male who test drove his truck. DM has tattoos on both arms, underside and words I have seen in pictures.
*BO saw an ambition tattoo with a box around it, on the person's wrist who test drove his truck.
*LE believe because of the BO's size, very large male, he could have overpowered them, which may have deterred perps.
*He said the taller suspect drove while the other suspect sat behind the owner in the passenger seat.
*A third person owning a Dodge truck was contacted May 5th, by the same burner phone number and planned to go on a test drive but the seller slept in, missing the drive.
*Police are now considering a &#8220;thrill kill&#8221; as a possible motive for the mysterious slaying of Tim Bosma.&#8220;It is seriously being looked at,&#8221; said one police source. &#8220;There is a theory that it was about stealing a truck but also hurting somebody.&#8221;
*Stealing the truck is definitely also part of it.
*TB left for a test drive with two males and never returned home.
*Learned from police that Bosma's phone was turned off within a mile north of his house. As reported in early conference, by Kav, TB's phone was turned off shortly after 10pm.
*TB's cell phone was found in Brantford industrial area May 9th.
*BO gave a description of the two males and this description also matched the description given by SB. The BO was also able to give a description of the ambition tattoo.
*Video evidence recovered shows when Mr. Bosma's vehicle left his residence, there was a second vehicle following.
*Bosma's truck was spotted in downtown Brantford approximately 10:10pm after Bosma left on the test drive, but the witness couldn't tell how many people were inside.
*Police were able to work backwards to pin down the phone used by one the suspects in the case. The phone had been used for three months in different parts of Etobicoke based on tower information.
*Kav had originally stated that the attack on Bosma was &#8220;targeted,&#8221; but Hamilton police later clarified Bosma's truck was targeted.
*Burner cell phone records can be traced to DM.
*The burner cell phone has not been used since TB's disappearance.
*A dark blue Yukon SUV owned by Dellen Millard, was following TB's truck the night TB was abducted. They, whoever they are (LE), say only a driver was inside.
*A source with knowledge of the investigation said police indicated Bosma was killed in the truck.
*TB was burned beyond recognition and found on the farmland property owned by DM.
*There were two areas of DM's farmland property where the ground was burnt.
*A neighbour had given police a photograph of what he called an incinerator on a trailer he saw on the site on Friday. He said the place where police have set up a tent is one of the locations where he saw the incinerator.
*Two days after its disappearance, TB's truck was found inside a trailer registered to Millardair in MB's, DM's mother's driveway.
*Neighbours said the trailer had appeared days earlier, on Wednesday night while they watched the Leafs lose their fourth playoff game.
*An incinerator was found on farmland owned by DM. LE are not saying whether the incinerator was used to try and dispose of TB.
*A HD motorcycle and a trailer which were stolen were found inside of the Millardair new hangar. The motorcycle, which was stolen shortly after being advertised, had been chopped into pieces and repainted with its serial numbers shaved down.
*It has been speculated that the hangar was being used as a giant &#8220;chop shop&#8221; for stolen vehicles due to the presence of dismantled, repainted vehicles with serial numbers ground away.
*Millard inherited the $6.4-million hangar after his father, Wayne Millard, died in November 2012.
*Since DM's arrest, the investigation has seen forensics and police comb through three of his properties in Etobicoke, a farm near Ayr and a Waterloo airport hangar.
*LE are further investigating the disappearance of LB and the death of WM who died of a gunshot wound to the head, originally believed to be suicide.
*police confirmed that Millard was &#8220;romantically linked&#8221; to a Toronto woman who went missing almost a year ago. Babcock went missing last July and phone records show she had contact with DM on July 3, 2012.
*DM has a gamer tag image of him with a bloody eye.
*Mark Smich, the second suspect in the Tim Bosma killing, has been formally charged with first-degree murder.
*MS has five previous convictions, including two for drug possession 2005 and 2006, and one for impaired 2009, and has an outstanding mischief under $5,000 charge for graffiti on an overpass.

Just a few points to consider. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

It would seem so far, if things have progressed typically, that the Crown has received the LE report and Counsel for the accused has shared his client's story/proof/evidence with the Crown.

IIRC, they would have discussed each other's position and argued/negotiated some mutual path forward on what charges, will be tried, remembering that both sides now have a good understanding of what each other are after and what evidence supports each position.

Given the Sept. 12 date mentioned to set a Judicial Pretrial, possibly someone possibly isn't in agreement with something and they(both) are looking to run it by a Judge. Or it is possible a deal has been made, but they must run it by the Judge to make sure it isn't too lenient or too harsh given the evidence? Then too, there are usually the "feelers" put out to "poll" the Judge on what sentence he might favor, if the accused were to plead guilty.
The final possibility is of course, that the case/evidence/charges/etc. is so wrong and off base, that the charges against the accused will be dismissed. I would also think there could be discussion around separate/joint trial possibilities and legalities if dismissal isn't found.

It should present interesting results(if we could hear them). I guess that the only public MSM info that will come out is if dismissal is ordered.

Anyway, thoughts?

I could be wrong, but I thought there was always a Judicial pre-trial in a murder trial. It's during the pre-trial that they discuss resolution issues as you mention, what things may or may not be allowed, and how long they expect the trial to take. Even if one were to change their plea to guilty, with or without a deal, wouldn't they need the pre-trial so they could set the date to accept the plea and sentencing?

http://robichaudlaw.ca/court-procedures/judicial-pre-trials-in-criminal-court/

If one of them were to plead guilty to first degree murder, there would be no movement in sentencing. First degree murder in Ontario is an automatic life sentence with no eligibility for parole for 25 years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/24/f-murder-manslaughter-definitions.html

JMO

 

[Juballee]

It would be to me, of interest to find out if DM had visited say example, this business on Cawthra Road that Saturday when he was arrested by LE. He had been tailed by LE for four hours prior to his arrest and that tells me he gave indication of his involvement by where he had traveled, places he had been just prior to his arrest. Was he looking for tools such as saws to assist in the disposal of TB or perhaps a grinder to assist in effacing TB's truck? Was he searching for another propane tank for the incinerator? Although the information didn't come out until days later about the incinerator, it would still connect the dots. Along with the evidence LE already had, and trailing DM, tells me DM was up to something which solidified their proof of DM being connected to TB's case.

I will not be shocked to find out those who are on the do not contact lists are people and/or friends who know DM and MS, called LE with tips IDing them, DM's tattoos and gave LE other pertinent information on DM and MS to confirm they had the right guys which matched up with all the evidence. I know we cannot sleuth her, but I assume DM's gf will play a major role in assisting LE. Maybe MS's gf also. ALL JMO.

http://westwaymachinery.com/westway-machinery-content/uploads/2012/11/Westway-Machinery-Brochure.pdf

http://westwaymachinery.com/

I am not sure if I saw the same things that you saw following that link. It is metalworking machinery, not really helpful in disposing of a body, in my opinion, unless I am missing something? If the accusations are correct, wouldn't he already have a machine for grinding the identifying parts of TB's truck, if that was his goal? And if his goal was looking for another propane tank for his incinerator, (which I did not see for sale there but could have missed it), why would he not just google where to get propane, like young people do these days? Why would he be driving around 4 days later looking for someplace that sold propane?

When you say 'along with the evidence LE already had', at that point, wasn't all their evidence just the two descriptions, and possibly the call records of the pay as you go phone, how does that and whatever he was doing solidify that he was up to something? Because I believe if he was up to something, ie, committing other crimes while they were following him, or perhaps disposing of evidence or conspiring with others, they would have had a duty to pick him then, would they not?