Suspect #3: True or False

[canadiangirl]

Here's a link to the google map. The "A" is actually showing a little further north of his home address. You can see his home there and then a forested area just to the north. And if you go on streetview there is a hidden driveway there, immediately to the right of TB's driveway. Very easy for them to have hidden the Yukon in there IMO. Especially in the dark.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=1215+t...lton+Division,+Ontario+L0R+1R0&gl=ca&t=h&z=18

There are businesses further north, closer to Wilson St that would likely have the kind of video surveillance that would pick up vehicles on the road, even if not very good quality. Can't see any of the rural homes along there having that kind of video surveillance since they are set so far back from the road and most have tree lines between them and the road. It would take some pretty high powered equipment for them to get footage of the road, at night from that distance.

MOO

I just had a look, I agree, video from homes there are so far away, I can't see any footage being from residential homes. Also, what is that little driveway? Very good place to hide the Yukon but if that's the case and it was hidden there, how do we get MS or DM out of TB's truck to tail in the 2nd vehicle so quick?

<snip><bbm>
second vehicle followed the three men in the truck as it left the residence.

I still think there's a #3. But that's MOO. Otherwise TB likely would've known his demise right away. Ballsy to do that within feet of the home. JMO

 

[Archangel7]

I just had a look, I agree, video from homes there are so far away, I can't see any footage being from residential homes. Also, what is that little driveway? Very good place to hide the Yukon but if that's the case and it was hidden there, how do we get MS or DM out of TB's truck to tail in the 2nd vehicle so quick?

<snip><bbm>
second vehicle followed the three men in the truck as it left the residence.

I still think there's a #3. But that's MOO. Otherwise TB likely would've known his demise right away. Ballsy to do that within feet of the home. JMO

It is difficult to determine from Google streetview, but there are numerous trucking businesses? along the East side of Trinity Rd North of TB's.

Possibly one or several of their cameras videoed it(if they even have cameras)

If you Google streetview across from the fairgrounds at Tropical Pool's building, there appears to be something like a camera near the dish on the NW corner.

JMO and the images are from August 2011 IIRC

 

[Kamille]

I just had a look, I agree, video from homes there are so far away, I can't see any footage being from residential homes. Also, what is that little driveway? Very good place to hide the Yukon but if that's the case and it was hidden there, how do we get MS or DM out of TB's truck to tail in the 2nd vehicle so quick?

<snip><bbm>
second vehicle followed the three men in the truck as it left the residence.

I still think there's a #3. But that's MOO. Otherwise TB likely would've known his demise right away. Ballsy to do that within feet of the home. JMO

Yes I do agree that would be the perfect place for a third person to actually be parked. Not too far for DM and MS to walk to TB's house either. Or...just park the vehicle there and walk if it was just the two of them. They could have scoped out the area earlier. Or checked it out on google maps like we did.

The thing about no third suspect that confuses me is what if TB had refused to go on the test drive with them? What if he just allowed them to look at the vehicle or, if he was a suspicious kind of guy, made them leave some identification behind at the house before going on this test drive. How did they know that they would successfully get him to go on the drive? And if they didn't, were they going to just walk back up the driveway and down the road to wait for their "friend" to pick them up? Where in reality they would just get into their own waiting vehicle and high tail it out of there?

Did they plan ahead for any of these possibilities? Was there any cell phone communication between DM and another number or MS and another number? With either the burner phone or with their own cell phones?

And I agree, other than gagging him and tying him up somehow, or incapacitating him some way, in his own vehicle, as soon as they pulled into that area to get the other vehicle, how would they have gotten one of them into that Yukon so quickly to trail the other one?

MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Yes I do agree that would be the perfect place for a third person to actually be parked. Not too far for DM and MS to walk to TB's house either. Or...just park the vehicle there and walk if it was just the two of them. They could have scoped out the area earlier. Or checked it out on google maps like we did.

The thing about no third suspect that confuses me is what if TB had refused to go on the test drive with them? What if he just allowed them to look at the vehicle or, if he was a suspicious kind of guy, made them leave some identification behind at the house before going on this test drive. How did they know that they would successfully get him to go on the drive? And if they didn't, were they going to just walk back up the driveway and down the road to wait for their "friend" to pick them up? Where in reality they would just get into their own waiting vehicle and high tail it out of there?

Did they plan ahead for any of these possibilities? Was there any cell phone communication between DM and another number or MS and another number? With either the burner phone or with their own cell phones?

And I agree, other than gagging him and tying him up somehow, or incapacitating him some way, in his own vehicle, as soon as they pulled into that area to get the other vehicle, how would they have gotten one of them into that Yukon so quickly to trail the other one?

MOO

bbm

You make a good point there and one that perhaps DM's legal team may argue as far as premeditation is concerned. Did DM and MS anticipate TB not going on the test drive? Was there an earlier conversation that led them to believe they could just take the truck but when they arrived TB had changed his mind and insisted on going?

 

[Archangel7]

bbm

You make a good point there and one that perhaps DM's legal team may argue as far as premeditation is concerned. Did DM and MS anticipate TB not going on the test drive? Was there an earlier conversation that led them to believe they could just take the truck but when they arrived TB had changed his mind and insisted on going?

I guess it would depend on what we pick as a motive....

If only the truck as a motive, one jumps out at the end of the driveway, grabs the chase car(or if #3 is waiting in the chase car) and they have the truck and are gone.

If the motive is TB(there is no connection per LE/MSM) although, I could possibly make a case that #3 knows him, has a grudge, wants him dead and DM, MS are beholden to #3 or just want the truck after they give #3 TB's death.

Regardless they could likely get TB in the truck by giving the excuse that we would rather he be along in case something breaks, so they won't be blamed, because they don't know the truck and that would be bad business , "it's night and we are not familiar with the roads", etc......

MOO

 

[cartman]

I've been thinking about the third suspect, if there even is one. I wonder if DM and MS told this person to drop them off at TB's because they were going to purchase the truck and drive it home. Maybe suspect #3 (if he/she even exists) was under the impression that their job was to just drive the Yukon back to TO.
Although, like Kamille said, it would put a kink in their plans if TB had refused the test drive. But I suppose they would have been all connected through cell phones if it hadn't worked out.

 

[swanna]

I've been thinking about the third suspect, if there even is one. I wonder if DM and MS told this person to drop them off at TB's because they were going to purchase the truck and drive it home. Maybe suspect #3 (if he/she even exists) was under the impression that their job was to just drive the Yukon back to TO.
Although, like Kamille said, it would put a kink in their plans if TB had refused the test drive. But I suppose they would have been all connected through cell phones if it hadn't worked out.

That's a good point about being connected through cell phones...we have to remember that just because a burner phone was used to set up the appointments to sellers of trucks. They would most likely have still had there own cell phones an the LE would now have records of who was called with the date and times these calls were made.

 

[Kamille]

That's a good point about being connected through cell phones...we have to remember that just because a burner phone was used to set up the appointments to sellers of trucks. They would most likely have still had there own cell phones an the LE would now have records of who was called with the date and times these calls were made.

That was one of the points I was trying to make. If there is a third suspect, who was trailing in the Yukon, would there be cell phone contact between either DM or MS and this third person at the time in question? Cell phone records on either of their phones, or the burner phone, may determine this.

Or is there cell phone contact between DM and MS at the time in question? Which would make no sense if they were both in the same vehicle dealing with their victim.

MOO

 

[Curiositykitten]

That was one of the points I was trying to make. If there is a third suspect, who was trailing in the Yukon, would there be cell phone contact between either DM or MS and this third person at the time in question? Cell phone records on either of their phones, or the burner phone, may determine this.

Or is there cell phone contact between DM and MS at the time in question? Which would make no sense if they were both in the same vehicle dealing with their victim.

MOO

I don't know. I would think if DM went to the trouble of getting a burner phone, he wouldn't use it to call his buddies/accomplices on the night of the crime. And if he did, the cops would be all over it.

 

[Kamille]

I'm also perplexed by DM's lawyer's comments right after his arrest and before MS was arrested.

His lawyer, Deepak Paradkar, said he was exercising his right to remain silent, but at the same time suggested that “there is a story behind this, which I can’t get into” and that “obviously it’s more than what it appears to be.”

He also threw out the bizarre quote that “I can’t get into the framing aspect” and that, once other suspects are in custody, “I think you’ll have a fuller picture of what’s going on.”

Still, his client doesn’t seem to be assisting police in tracking them down.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

So DM's lawyer was throwing out speculation of him being framed by more than one "suspect" right at the beginning of this. I wonder what story DM told him? And how many people he claimed were involved?

Okay so there is one other suspect in custody. And I don't think we have that fuller picture of what's going on yet. And it still appears to be exactly what it appears to be. I don't see a story behind this from the arrest of the other suspect. :waitasec:

Seems to me that DM, through his lawyer, tried to muddy the waters right from the beginning. I hope this quote is not forgotten when the story is morphed to fit the discovery evidence.

MOO

 

[cartman]

Kamille, I also find DP's quote about the other suspects so puzzling. There is a story behind it? Well, hop to it buddy! We want the bigger picture!

 

[Kamille]

I don't know. I would think if DM went to the trouble of getting a burner phone, he wouldn't use it to call his buddies/accomplices on the night of the crime. And if he did, the cops would be all over it.

They may have used their own phones. Assuming that they wouldn't get caught. LE wouldn't have those records until sometime after the suspects were arrested. And they wouldn't be releasing any of that information because the only reason they released the burner phone information was to try to apprehend the suspects. Maybe that's one of the things that led them to MS?

MOO

 

[skatergirl]

I'm also perplexed by DM's lawyer's comments right after his arrest and before MS was arrested.

His lawyer, Deepak Paradkar, said he was exercising his right to remain silent, but at the same time suggested that “there is a story behind this, which I can’t get into” and that “obviously it’s more than what it appears to be.”

He also threw out the bizarre quote that “I can’t get into the framing aspect” and that, once other suspects are in custody, “I think you’ll have a fuller picture of what’s going on.”

Still, his client doesn’t seem to be assisting police in tracking them down.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

So DM's lawyer was throwing out speculation of him being framed by more than one "suspect" right at the beginning of this. I wonder what story DM told him? And how many people he claimed were involved?

Okay so there is one other suspect in custody. And I don't think we have that fuller picture of what's going on yet. And it still appears to be exactly what it appears to be. I don't see a story behind this from the arrest of the other suspect. :waitasec:

Seems to me that DM, through his lawyer, tried to muddy the waters right from the beginning. I hope this quote is not forgotten when the story is morphed to fit the discovery evidence.

MOO

Great points!!!

I too have been waiting for this fuller picture to emerge.

From these quotes by DP, I have taken it to mean that DM is explaining his story to him. So if his lawyer is quoted as saying suspects, it definitely supports the theory that there is still at least one out there, MOO

 

[jash]

IMO this is exactly the story that DM and MS gave to TB and perhaps his wife when they walked up their driveway without a vehicle. The home is very rural and it would be incredibly odd for two people just to walk to the home. So that's the story that SB likely told friends and LE. And one of those friends posted that information on kijiji. They probably said something like "our buddy dropped us off, he has to go pick up something and he'll be back in a half hour".

Doesn't mean there was a third guy. It's just what they likely told TB and SB to explain why they had no vehicle of their own to leave at the home while they went on the test drive.

MOO

I totally agree.

(1) At the May 8th press conference, LE said "Mr. Bosma had told his spouse that the males stated that they were from Toronto." If TB told SB this, I can see him telling her other information he had been told (like if they were getting dropped off by a friend). The only question though is why wouldn't LE have disclosed this from the beginning?

(2) The man from the first test drive the day before specifically asked the two suspects how they had arrived at his place of business (and they said they walked). Perhaps they picked up on his suspicions, and realized they needed a better story for getting to TB's rural home.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yeah, the more this gets discussed, the more likely it seems that there is no suspect #3, that they invented suspect #3 as a reason to arrive on foot. It also explains LE's indecision on the number of suspects. Many of the theories here seem pretty plausible in terms of how the two of them could have dealt with both the murder and two trucks.

Good thinking, guys.

 

[Kamille]

Great points!!!

I too have been waiting for this fuller picture to emerge.

From these quotes by DP, I have taken it to mean that DM is explaining his story to him. So if his lawyer is quoted as saying suspects, it definitely supports the theory that there is still at least one out there, MOO

Or it supports the theory that DM was floating that out there, knowing full well that there are no other suspects besides him and MS. To cause confusion and doubt as to the actual sequence of events that evening and in the following days. I believe his lawyer made those statements after LE indicated they were looking for 2 or more suspects after DM was arrested.

When LE first started to get information, it appears they were told by SB that the two men who came up her driveway said that they were dropped off by a friend who would be returning to pick them up. So LE had the idea of at least 3 suspects, from an eye witness, right from the start. I think it's safe to assume that SB did not see this "friend" who supposedly dropped them off or the vehicle they arrived in.

Then they got the video footage showing an SUV type vehicle travelling behind TB's truck somewhere at some time after it left his residence. For all we know it may have been some other vehicle altogether, totally unrelated to this. Or it was, as LE seemed to believe, DM's Yukon.

Now when LE originally announced this trailer vehicle, they indicated that they could not distinguish the make or model of the vehicle from the poor quality of the video surveillance. Not sure if they got this video footage before or after they picked up DM in the Yukon. Were they in error to assume that the Yukon he was driving at the time of his arrest was the trailer vehicle in the video surveillance? Did they put that piece of info out there also believing that if it was the Yukon, that whomever was driving it would turn themselves in since they already had DM and then MS in custody? And when that didn't happen, have they gone back to that surveillance footage to figure out if perhaps they were mistaken about the trailer vehicle being the Yukon?

Or have they enhanced that footage and determined that it was definitely the Yukon and are now working on the theory that DM and MS lied about being dropped off by someone and that the Yukon was actually being driven by one of them? And they are now working on the theory of where the Yukon was parked and at what point they were able to pick it up?

Hard to figure out now that they are not putting anything out there. Which indicates to me that they no longer need the public's assistance to find any other suspects.

MOO

 

[lanman]

Great points!!!

I too have been waiting for this fuller picture to emerge.

From these quotes by DP, I have taken it to mean that DM is explaining his story to him. So if his lawyer is quoted as saying suspects, it definitely supports the theory that there is still at least one out there, MOO

It's a fact that there were at least 2 people involved, so if DM was claiming he was innocent, then he and his lawyer are going to say "other suspects". Saying "other suspect" would basically be an admission of guilt.

 

[skatergirl]

Or it supports the theory that DM was floating that out there, knowing full well that there are no other suspects besides him and MS. To cause confusion and doubt as to the actual sequence of events that evening and in the following days. I believe his lawyer made those statements after LE indicated they were looking for 2 or more suspects after DM was arrested.

When LE first started to get information, it appears they were told by SB that the two men who came up her driveway said that they were dropped off by a friend who would be returning to pick them up. So LE had the idea of at least 3 suspects, from an eye witness, right from the start. I think it's safe to assume that SB did not see this "friend" who supposedly dropped them off or the vehicle they arrived in.

Then they got the video footage showing an SUV type vehicle travelling behind TB's truck somewhere at some time after it left his residence. For all we know it may have been some other vehicle altogether, totally unrelated to this. Or it was, as LE seemed to believe, DM's Yukon.

Now when LE originally announced this trailer vehicle, they indicated that they could not distinguish the make or model of the vehicle from the poor quality of the video surveillance. Not sure if they got this video footage before or after they picked up DM in the Yukon. Were they in error to assume that the Yukon he was driving at the time of his arrest was the trailer vehicle in the video surveillance? Did they put that piece of info out there also believing that if it was the Yukon, that whomever was driving it would turn themselves in since they already had DM and then MS in custody? And when that didn't happen, have they gone back to that surveillance footage to figure out if perhaps they were mistaken about the trailer vehicle being the Yukon?

Or have they enhanced that footage and determined that it was definitely the Yukon and are now working on the theory that DM and MS lied about being dropped off by someone and that the Yukon was actually being driven by one of them? And they are now working on the theory of where the Yukon was parked and at what point they were able to pick it up?

Hard to figure out now that they are not putting anything out there. Which indicates to me that they no longer need the public's assistance to find any other suspects.

MOO

This all makes very good sense, so if we are then to assume only DM and MS are involved, the timing of when and where surveillance video picked up the SUV following is important to determine, if it could have been a random vehicle, or if they would have had time to stop, subdue in some way or kill TB, and then continue with either DM or MS following in the Yukon.

 

[skatergirl]

It's a fact that there were at least 2 people involved, so if DM was claiming he was innocent, then he and his lawyer are going to say "other suspects". Saying "other suspect" would basically be an admission of guilt.

Completely agree, that DP has implicated his client by his remarks, we just don't know to what level DM was involved

 

[Sillybilly]

While I agree that some of the scenarios suggested are very possible, I still believe there is a third suspect who is a close associate of DM