Suspect #3: True or False

[skatergirl]

Yes, the phone comment is interesting, but from what I understand(I live nowhere near Ancaster) the phone was found in Brantford, but the fair grounds are near Bosma's home.

My reason for posting this was the ad states 3 people arrived at TB's home about the truck, 2 going on the test drive and one in the other vehicle who said he would return, so clearly SB knew this information and passed it along to whoever the friend was that posted this ad

The question of this thread is whether or not there is a third suspect, while the third person may not necissarily be a "suspect", they were at Bosma's home, and were driving the SUV, so certainly makes them a POI, IMHO

 

[MuhGruff]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1

This ad posted on kijiji was obviously made by someone close enough to SB to know what happened, at her home on the night TB took the 2 out for the test drive IMHO

I read this when it was first posted but dismissed it as heresay, Iread ssomething else (from the same friend circle of TB) that the 3rd male dropped them off and said "I'll come pick you up later". Not sure if this is real or just another false report.

Between LE tight lips and bad news reports it too difficult to ascertain a credible list of evidence. The f this is accurate then LE is just treading water waiting for evidence in order to get them. If there is a third (very likely is) then it's certain LE knows who and LE wants him to stay put and relax until they have enough to collect warrants on him

 

[Archangel7]

Yes, the phone comment is interesting, but from what I understand(I live nowhere near Ancaster) the phone was found in Brantford, but the fair grounds are near Bosma's home.

My reason for posting this was the ad states 3 people arrived at TB's home about the truck, 2 going on the test drive and one in the other vehicle who said he would return, so clearly SB knew this information and passed it along to whoever the friend was that posted this ad

The phone was found(depending on which MSM) at Fen Ridge Ct. in West Brantford or BGI near Paris rd., both are somewhat easy/direct from the TB home.

The fairgrounds are 1 mile away from TB home and the phone @ Fen Ridge is 17.5 miles away or 1.62 km and 28.3 km respectively.

Yes, about the 3rd person....Red herring?, Honest intent but poor info?, Absolute truth?

Hard to say given the recent MSM reports of LE comments on evidence(lack of) of #3.

 

[Blomquist]

For me, the announcement by Kavanagh that there may not be a third suspect further calls into question his judgment. He assured everyone on May 21. there was no danger to the public and now, two weeks later, he is telling us that the investigation has not yet established the setting and the actors in the crime. So if he is not sure now that there was a third suspect (it was always a "suspect"), how could he have been sure before MS arrest this person (of whose existence he seemed to have been certain then) posed no danger to the public ? Does this makes sense to you ?

Not only did the lead investigator evidently jumped the gun by giving assurances, but - and that is perhaps much worse - he may have thrown a wrench into his own investigation by insisting that the 3rd person was a suspect in the case, when in fact - if this person even exists - he (she ?) may well have been an unwitting accessory. How much smarter it would have been for the investigators to call the putative 3rd person a POI, and sound as reassuring as possible that they did not believe he was involved in the conspiracy to murder TB. Now of course, if this person was involved in the murder, they would have not gotten a phone call, but if he was not materially involved beyond driving, he may well have decide to take the risk and give himself in. There was nothing to lose and much to gain by soft-treading the 3rd person's role or witness in the slaying.

Best,
J.

Make you wonder how much else is inaccurate in their 'investigation' doesn't it?

 

[canadiangirl]

Make you wonder how much else is inaccurate in their 'investigation' doesn't it?

Not really, it makes me wonder if they have calculated timing of releasing information and putting specific information out there for their own purpose. True or false info, LE has been known to put out both to help an investigation. JMO

 

[Gibson67]

perhaps by LE dismissing there is a third suspect both Smich and DM might be waiting for 3rd to be apprehended hoping it will help them....well if he's not, these 2 may have to start talking.

 

[SnoopyJay]

So...

-DM and MS park the Yukon just up the road from Bosma residence and walk to the house.

-DM, MS, TB leave for test drive

-shortly after departing residence TB is incapacitated and likely killed (I suspect leaving bodily fluids not just blood)

-DM and MS reach the place where Yukon was parked

-DM or MS drives TBs vehicle and DM or MS drives Yukon (do we know definitively where TBs cell was found? Could it have fallen out this close to TBs home?)

-The perps drive Yukon and TBs Ram to place where the trailer is parked (possibly with DMs red Ram)

-TBs Ram is driven into back of awaiting trailer with TBs body still inside

-DM (probably) drives Red Ram and trailer to farm

-where does MS go with the Yukon? Does he go to the farm to help? I think so...

-so loose ends and questions to answer based on this theory:
1) did they unload the truck, remove seats or just TB at farm?
2) after removing TB from truck, did one of them leave to park the red ram, trailer, and TBs Ram at MBs? (I suspect MS did the dirty work disposing of the body and DM drove to MBs.)

The reason I think it is most likely that DM drove the trailer is because he likely had the most experience driving it, and wouldn't it take skill to be able to sneakily park it in MBs driveway so close to the garage with no one noticing? Also, if MB had come out wondering what was going on, DM could likely best avert any suspicions or weirdness.

This is total speculation and theory of mine. It is MOO.

 

[SnoopyJay]

It would really be good if LE would release any aliases that DM or MS used when arranging test drives...they could have contacted people all over about vehicles.

That is, if LE is aware of any names they gave the know. Test drive subjects...

 

[nettie_82]

It would really be good if LE would release any aliases that DM or MS used when arranging test drives...they could have contacted people all over about vehicles.

That is, if LE is aware of any names they gave the know. Test drive subjects...

Well there were two other people contacted besides TB that we know of, I am sure police are aware if DM used an alias in either of those contacts. I suspect if he used his real name ie. Dell, Dellen he likely would have used same name for every contact.

 

[Blomquist]

Not really, it makes me wonder if they have calculated timing of releasing information and putting specific information out there for their own purpose. True or false info, LE has been known to put out both to help an investigation. JMO

Yes putting out true and false information is definitely something they do.... I have to agree with you there

 

[Blomquist]

Well there were two other people contacted besides TB that we know of, I am sure police are aware if DM used an alias in either of those contacts. I suspect if he used his real name ie. Dell, Dellen he likely would have used same name for every contact.

I have actually found that people don't always give a name at all!

" Do you still have the car for sale" ..."Yes" " Can I come and see it," "Yes" "where do I go to see it" Sometimes that s how the conversation goes. Even from emails they often do not give a name just to view. JMO from what I have experienced.

 

[Archangel7]

Just an observation and a comment. As a LE agency, the officer speaking to the press MUST never lie for any reason to the press in a free nation.

It's ok to say I'm not going to comment on that, or I can't release any info. on that, or that's still under investigation....BUT NEVER LIE to the press. The're the same folk you will need when you are eating humble pie and need the public's help to re- start your case.

 

[huntergerrard]

It would really be good if LE would release any aliases that DM or MS used when arranging test drives...they could have contacted people all over about vehicles.

That is, if LE is aware of any names they gave the know. Test drive subjects...

Awhile back (before we knew of the chop shop in the hangar) someone mentioned a car lot that had a suspicious test drive and an alleged key swap. The poster mentioned that the car lot had possibly hid the vehicles to avoid theft.
Did anything ever become of that news story?

 

[Blomquist]

Just an observation and a comment. As a LE agency, the officer speaking to the press MUST never lie for any reason to the press in a free nation.

It's ok to say I'm not going to comment on that, or I can't release any info. on that, or that's still under investigation....BUT NEVER LIE to the press. The're the same folk you will need when you are eating humble pie and need the public's help to re- start your case.

Than can and do 'Lie by omission' IMO

 

[Archangel7]

The only way one can lie by omission or not answering is while hooked to a lie detector during testing or by not telling the truth, the WHOLE truth(omitting) under oath.

Neither of which seems to apply to the lead agency.

If they outright lied to the Press on purpose that is inexcusable.

 

[RickOShea]

So...

-DM and MS park the Yukon just up the road from Bosma residence and walk to the house.

-DM, MS, TB leave for test drive

-shortly after departing residence TB is incapacitated and likely killed (I suspect leaving bodily fluids not just blood)

-DM and MS reach the place where Yukon was parked

-DM or MS drives TBs vehicle and DM or MS drives Yukon (do we know definitively where TBs cell was found? Could it have fallen out this close to TBs home?)

-The perps drive Yukon and TBs Ram to place where the trailer is parked (possibly with DMs red Ram)

-TBs Ram is driven into back of awaiting trailer with TBs body still inside

-DM (probably) drives Red Ram and trailer to farm

-where does MS go with the Yukon? Does he go to the farm to help? I think so...

-so loose ends and questions to answer based on this theory:
1) did they unload the truck, remove seats or just TB at farm?
2) after removing TB from truck, did one of them leave to park the red ram, trailer, and TBs Ram at MBs? (I suspect MS did the dirty work disposing of the body and DM drove to MBs.)

The reason I think it is most likely that DM drove the trailer is because he likely had the most experience driving it, and wouldn't it take skill to be able to sneakily park it in MBs driveway so close to the garage with no one noticing? Also, if MB had come out wondering what was going on, DM could likely best avert any suspicions or weirdness.

This is total speculation and theory of mine. It is MOO.

The implication then (if there are only 2 suspects) is that only one of them was in the truck with TB. The other would have been driving the Yukon, since surveilance cameras video taped TB's truck being followed by the Yukon. I suppose it still could have been set up as a 'hijacking', where the Yukon somehow pulled over the Ram Pickup. If that was the case, both suspects could have been involved. But... who knows, I guess we'll find out at a later date.

 

[Ailin42]

The only way one can lie by omission or not answering is while hooked to a lie detector during testing or by not telling the truth, the WHOLE truth(omitting) under oath.

Neither of which seems to apply to the lead agency.

If they outright lied to the Press on purpose that is inexcusable.

I think some of the wording used by LE in press conferences and interviews is designed to allow the media and public (and potentially other "suspects at large") to think they mean one thing, when they really mean another. Therefore it is not an outright lie, just worded obliquely. For example, I notice they say "at this time" a lot in their official statements, which can absolve them of blame of "lying" later because they can say at THAT exact time that was how it was, or what they thought it was...

 

[Archangel7]

I think some of the wording used by LE in press conferences and interviews is designed to allow the media and public (and potentially other "suspects at large") to think they mean one thing, when they really mean another. Therefore it is not an outright lie, just worded obliquely. For example, I notice they say "at this time" a lot in their official statements, which can absolve them of blame of "lying" later because they can say at THAT exact time that was how it was, or what they thought it was...

Certainly possible. I can tell you from past experience, sometimes we don't know at the time. It is a constant comparison of evidence and in this case Crown satisfaction with what LE says the evidence shows.

Sometimes the DA/Crown will say no, go get more definitive proof or that's not a contravention in particular and you start over.

 

[bessie]

I think some of the wording used by LE in press conferences and interviews is designed to allow the media and public (and potentially other "suspects at large") to think they mean one thing, when they really mean another. Therefore it is not an outright lie, just worded obliquely. For example, I notice they say "at this time" a lot in their official statements, which can absolve them of blame of "lying" later because they can say at THAT exact time that was how it was, or what they thought it was...

Respectully, communication works two ways, and responsibility lies on the part of both the sender and the receiver. Such phrases as you've pointed out are meant to clarify a situation, but readers and listeners often fail to pay attention.

 

[Archangel7]

So...

-DM and MS park the Yukon just up the road from Bosma residence and walk to the house.

-DM, MS, TB leave for test drive

-shortly after departing residence TB is incapacitated and likely killed (I suspect leaving bodily fluids not just blood)

-DM and MS reach the place where Yukon was parked

-DM or MS drives TBs vehicle and DM or MS drives Yukon (do we know definitively where TBs cell was found? Could it have fallen out this close to TBs home?)

-The perps drive Yukon and TBs Ram to place where the trailer is parked (possibly with DMs red Ram)

-TBs Ram is driven into back of awaiting trailer with TBs body still inside

-DM (probably) drives Red Ram and trailer to farm

-where does MS go with the Yukon? Does he go to the farm to help? I think so...

-so loose ends and questions to answer based on this theory:
1) did they unload the truck, remove seats or just TB at farm?
2) after removing TB from truck, did one of them leave to park the red ram, trailer, and TBs Ram at MBs? (I suspect MS did the dirty work disposing of the body and DM drove to MBs.)

The reason I think it is most likely that DM drove the trailer is because he likely had the most experience driving it, and wouldn't it take skill to be able to sneakily park it in MBs driveway so close to the garage with no one noticing? Also, if MB had come out wondering what was going on, DM could likely best avert any suspicions or weirdness.

This is total speculation and theory of mine. It is MOO.

Looks believable, it also leaves room/locations for a third suspect should the evidence show that.
Also maybe MS hit TB in the head from behind or bagged him, and much later during the Dodge/Yukon and or trailer changeover realized they hit TB too hard or asphyxiated him.

That cause would likely be easily and quickly determined on a body, even burned.