Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[Sammiejam]

I have always thought that some sort of poison was used. I posted as much waaaaay back at the end of august last year. When the chloroform info came out it was not really a suprise as chloroform is definately a poison. The perp has been true to the cliches all along, why would her modus operandi be any different?

In water, close to home and poison. She is no where near as cunning and clever as she thinks she is.

I hate her.:furious:

 

[JWG]

So it's an element of decomp and it was in the Crystal Light container? Color me confused.

Dimethyl disulfide is a commonly used / commonly manufactured chemical, often used as one of may ingredients in pesticides. It has other uses as well.

I don't think dimethyl disulfide ended up in the bottle as a result of cleaning the trunk. If anything, it was the other way around.

Before we go off and say "well, then, there was no body in the trunk because the dimethyl disulfide came from the cleaning solution and not a rotting corpse" keep in mind that there are many other chemicals associated with decay found in the trunk and not the bottle. Furthermore, we need to consider, if there was no body in the trunk, why the surreptitious cleaning of the trunk?

 

[txsvicki]

And I've always thought that she used more than one inhalant in the trunk possibly with a sprayer taken from the home. I've also always thought that she somehow continued the chloroform while the trunk was closed. Now I read that there are little holes in the duct tape. I don't believe Caylee ingested poison, but instead breathed it in while all the oxygen in the trunk was being displaced.

 

[sumbunny]

The placement of duct tape on her mouth in mass amounts makes more sense if she were to have used poison to kill caylee. I would assume people would vomit after consuming poison.

 

[JWG]

Starting at page 11732, here is what I found as the chemical make-up of the yellow extract from the syringe liquid. These results were produced by the toxicology lab and are sorted in order of most abundant to least.

Cyclododecane - Wax like bonding agent
Butylated Hydroxytoluene - BHT - antioxident food additive (preservative)
1-Tridecanol - Broad usage as a solvent
Testosterone Propionate - Anabolic steroid
1-Tetradecanol - Common in cosmetics as an emollient
Phenol, 2,2'-methylenebis[6-(1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-methyl - Sometimes used in fungicides
1-Tridecene - Possible biopesticide - known to attract beetles
9-Hexadecenoic acid, phenylmethyl ester, (Z)- - Some pesticide use
3,5-di-tert-Butyl-4-hydroxybenzaldehyde - Chemical intermediate for manufacture of pesticides
Eicosane - Used in the creation and/or manufacturing of fragrance and flavor concentrates
Dodecanoic acid, phenylmethyl ester - Anti-microbial
Decanoic acid, phenylmethyl ester - Sometimes used in injectible pharmaceuticals
3 Cyclohexene-1-methanol, .alpha.,.alpha.4-trimethyl- - Used in manufacture of flavors and fragrances
Pyrene - Used to make dyes and dye precursors
Octacosane - Pesticide use
2,6-di-tert-Butyl-4-(dimethylaminomethyl)pheonol - Stabilizer
​

FWIW

 

[QuietStorm]

JWG, can you (or anyone else out there) think of a possible scenario in which someone would mix these chemicals and the draw them into a syringe, as you speculate?

I mean someone other than KC. Imagine the syringe is completely unrelated to her and just a coincidence that it ended up near the remains (which is quite possible IMO). Can you think of a reason for someone to do that?

In my mind, while it seems quite possible the syringe has nothing to do w/ KC and is pure coincidence, it doesn't seem likely that some other unrelated person was attempting to harm or kill someone with "caustic" chemicals and their discarded syringe ended up near Caylee. KWIM?

Don't know how big this syringe is, but would it be feasible that someone would be able to draw decomp fluid in it in order to clean it up?

 

[seagull65]

Of all these items, I find the Crystal Lite contents to be the most intriguing. There are several constituents in this "brew" that are identical to constituents you see in such aerosol products as certain spray paints, and industrial spray cleaners/degreasers.

I agree that this is a VERY odd mixture to find in a bottle in a car. The methyl ethyl ketone alone throws a flag.

could it have been used by someone as an inhalant? Or just for cleaning the trunk?

hope they got fingerprints off the bottles, and wonder if they got DNA from the needle of the syringe. OK, I'm going to catch up on the thread now, these questions may already be answered

 

[seagull65]

I would respectfully disagree. IMO testosterone replacement is a viable medical treatment. From what I have been hearing, will become increasingly
utilized.

However, rinsing out a syringe with tap water smacks of stupidity. IMO, it would take a pretty hard core druggie to do this. Rinsing with alcohol would make a lot more sense.

Not saying it is impossible, just saying it does not make sense to me.

speaking about the steroids, whether for illicit use or medical use, either way, why would someone dump their steroids in the woods instead of keeping it? And it lands right where Caylee did. Weird.

 

[Sdavidson11]

Is that the correct spelling, Valhall?

Ok...got it. Anyway to distinguish it from this?

trimethylamine A nitrogenous compound, (CH3)3N, that acts as an osmolyte in the cells of the kidney. This compound can also be converted to trimethylamine oxide, which is excreted by many marine fish and gives them their characteristic odour.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O6-trimethylamine.html

found in antistatic sheets and fabric softener sheets chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/organic/trimethylamine

 

[seagull65]

Just trying to figure out the presence of the chemicals that the chemistry lab found in the syringe.
JWG's scenario of the syringe being used first for steroids then reloaded with something else makes sense. But I wondered if there could be an explanation for all of the chemicals/toxins being found with a single use.

According to google, most roids are bought from underground labs in the US.

They did a study and purchased different types of steroids from different suppliers and sent them to the lab for testing and found that the majority were contaminated with everything from heavy metals to flamables used to make plastics.
I think it was around 64% were found to have other chemicals added to the steroids, that were not listed on the labels.
So its possible that all of the chemicals found in the syringe can be explained by a contaminated batch of steroids, which is common.
JMO

Wow. That's scary. There are some weird things that bodybuilders inject, I remember a tenant of ours in FL once told me if we ever saw him in his apartment asleep on the couch or something and couldn't wake him, not to panic because he wasn't dead but just very deeply asleep from something he used, I can't remember which one that was that some bodybuilders use. He was a very nice guy, huge guy, definitely looked like a steroids case, and had a strange smell, as did his apartment.

 

[JWG]

After putting up my last post it bothered me that the testosterone showed up as one of the more "abundant" compounds. :banghead:

Why? Think of it this way. The needle can hold 100ml of fluid (I am making this up - may hold more or less). The testosterone user injects him (or her) self with testosterone, leaving the tube with 1 ml of fluid - nearly empty. They discard the needle. :whistle:

The needle finder now concocts a solution of cleaners and pesticides and draws it into the full 100 ml of the needle.

One would expect the major compounds in the cleaner / pesticide to be 100 times more abundant than the testosterone. Yet in the report they are only 2x more abundant or possibly equal, depending on how it was manufactured. :waitasec:

So, did KC plan to kill Caylee with a single injection of testosterone mixed with equal parts of cleaning supplies? Or did KC plan to kill Caylee with a needle full of cleaning supplies and then ... chickened out? :chicken: She tossed the originally-planned-but-unused murder weapon out with the body when she finally did figure out how to kill her.

Just wondering aloud.

 

[seagull65]

Except this particular blend doesn't seem to be available legally in the US.(with the four differents types of testosterone).

I understand it's medical use as HRT for men, since my Dad was legally prescribed this here in Oz and used it for a few years....and he was definately not a buff bodybuilder or a druggie....LOL.
I doubt that someone needing it for genuine medical reasons would discard or store it out in the woods.

sorry, I hadn't read this before posting same thought

 

[USARDOG]

speaking about the steroids, whether for illicit use or medical use, either way, why would someone dump their steroids in the woods instead of keeping it? And it lands right where Caylee did. Weird.

As far as I can tell, there were no steroids dumped, but rather there was a syringe found with traces of testosterone in it. This would fit the picture of someone using the syringe to inject steroids, then the syringe being discarded.

It leaves me wondering if GA had a prescription for the stuff, and if so, KC could have easily picked up one of the syringes after use and had other ideas what she would do with it.

On another note, as a former cath lab tech, I have a habit of folding my needles in half after use by pushing them against a counter top. We did this so they would not accidently stick someone. Also made them useless for anyone wanting to reuse them. CA being a nurse, I wonder if she had such a habit also? I'm wondering if any nurses or MD's on WS have the same habit.

 

[lizzysf]

After putting up my last post it bothered me that the testosterone showed up as one of the more "abundant" compounds. :banghead:

Why? Think of it this way. The needle can hold 100ml of fluid (I am making this up - may hold more or less). The testosterone user injects him (or her) self with testosterone, leaving the tube with 1 ml of fluid - nearly empty. They discard the needle. :whistle:

The needle finder now concocts a solution of cleaners and pesticides and draws it into the full 100 ml of the needle.

One would expect the major compounds in the cleaner / pesticide to be 100 times more abundant than the testosterone. Yet in the report they are only 2x more abundant or possibly equal, depending on how it was manufactured. :waitasec:

So, did KC plan to kill Caylee with a single injection of testosterone mixed with equal parts of cleaning supplies? Or did KC plan to kill Caylee with a needle full of cleaning supplies and then ... chickened out? :chicken: She tossed the originally-planned-but-unused murder weapon out with the body when she finally did figure out how to kill her.

Just wondering aloud.

BBM... it was a 3cc syringe.. 1cc=1ml.

 

[seagull65]

Anyone here see Terminator 2 way back when? In the Psych ward Sarah Conner takes a syringe plops a big bottle of cleaner on the table and fills the syringe with it. Then jabs a dude in the neck. Not saying this is what happened or this is where Casey got the idea.

However if someone was looking up household weapons or easy lethal weapons this is certainly something that would constitute being as such. Injecting any kind of cleaner in an individual is certainly going to have some adverse effects. Just reading what was in the syringe and bottles made me think of that movie scene.

I didn't know that was a scene in that movie. When you mentioned this it reminded me of that Florida case a few years ago where the boyfriend of the 15 year old girl (and the girl) did that to the girl's mother in the course of murdering her. In North Tampa.

 

[treeseeker]

Possibly KC injected the bags with the solution, hoping to kill off odor/flies without having to open the bag?

 

[Valhall]

BBM... it was a 3cc syringe.. 1cc=1ml.

That and they were only adding 20 microliters of the syringe content for testing, so I would assume it was "pert near empty".

 

[butwhatif?]

I have to keep reminding myself that not every item tested, directly relates to the case.
keeping it simple and logical, I'm thinking that the brown liquid is the spit from the Copenhagen chewing tobacco.
Here's a pic of the crystal light bottle and the tobacco from the trash.(the tin is to the right of the bottle)

I haven't been able to locate a list of its 2000+ chemicals, but will keep digging. But some of the chemicals listed in the docs are found in cigarettes, so are likely in the tobacco too.

Why is there no nicotine present if its from tobacco? Because the nicotine is absorbed in the tissue of the mouth when its chewed, and literally goes up in smoke when its smoked.
There don't appear to be any crystal light ingredients detected either. So not all chemicals/compounds/ingredients were tracable.

Now here are some google pics showing that spitting into a bottle is common with tobacco chewing, and looks similar to the crystal light bottle in the above pic.

It makes more sense to me that a bottle of icky brown spit was found in the same trash as the tobacco tin, than KC making a lethal cocktail and leaving it in the trash.
JMO of course.

 

[Jolynna]

speaking about the steroids, whether for illicit use or medical use, either way, why would someone dump their steroids in the woods instead of keeping it? And it lands right where Caylee did. Weird.

Since the amount of testosterone in the syringe was so minute in comparison to all the pesticide ingredients it doesn't look like the purpose of what was in the syringe was for somebody to build muscles. Bug poison can't be used as a recrerational drug. So what was the purpose of that mix in the syringe?

You are right, it is weird that that concoction was found next to a dead body.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I thought the Crystal Light was in the trash they picked up at the towyard (?).

They had that since July 16th...and obviously analyzed it.

I was talking about the items located at the remains site. They were found the day Caylee was. I know this thread is going off in two different directions, the syringe v/s the Crystal Light bottle.