Tempo Restaurant: What Happened There?

[Topcat]

Maybe there a period of time when the door person was either preoccupied or not at the door when JM returned.

 

[Emaa]

Clipped from the article:
City police Chief Timothy J. Longo has asked the council for more than $725,000 to fund additional officers to work the mall, but to no avail. He offered a scaled-back version of the plan costing less than $500,000, but still did not get the money. Instead, the City Council in 2012 approved the Downtown Mall ambassadors program, made up of part-time liaisons who help visitors navigate the mall and act as “eyes and ears” for police.

I wonder if the WG was one of the ambassadors hired to help the police. It would explain a lot.

Good catch. But wasn't WG's story that he tried to call police after video came out and then when his call wasn't returned, he went to the station? I would hope those liaisons wouldn't have such trouble getting the police to listen to them.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The argument is basically predicated on believing what the doorperson claims she saw.

If she was manning the door she would see who was going in. She claimed that JM was behaving in such a way outside that she took notice of him, so much so that she claimed to remember him when she saw him walk by with HG. And she said she saw him leave earlier, but no mention of him returning. So, if she remembered him from his behavior outside earlier, why would she not have remembered him coming back in if she still remembered him when he left? That does not make sense and suggests that parts of the story are not credible. The question is which parts?

We know that drinks were bought with JM's credit card at around 1:10, but it is also possible that he gave the card to a friend and never actually returned to the restaurant at all.

Alternatively, his car was parked nearby, and he went there to retrieve something before returning to the bar. That would be a reasonable explanation for leaving and then returning shortly afterwards. If that happened then we would have to discount the story told by the doorperson, since he apparently come back past her to get in.

What bothers me is that the time between encountering HG and him returning to the bar is relatively short. It does not leave a whole lot of time for conversation with a stranger, which you would expect to take a decent chunk of time if he somehow befriended her. But there is literally a couple of minutes at most for them to become best buds after being complete strangers. This does not seem very realistic to me unless he already knew her.Taken all together I am inclined to discount the eye witness accounts. Which would imply that other than passing in the street, the two of them never met or communicated, and that HG never went into or around the restaurant. In that scenario she would have just continued on her way.

BBM. I reckon he trotted out the "I'm a taxi driver" line and offered her a lift home, but then said he had to stop by a bar to pick something up, got her a drink, possibly slipped something in it, and drove off with her.

Good chance this was a tried and tested tactic.

 

[Elley Mae]

He said the witness contacted police through a hotline, on which police had received 100 tips. He did not release the name of the witness, who he said played phone tag with investigators before voluntarily coming to the police department around 10 p.m. Wednesday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

 

[cady]

I agree....wondering could JM have let HG in the side door once he was in??? Then they both exit the side door.

This makes sense. JMO

 

[Emaa]

He said the witness contacted police through a hotline, on which police had received 100 tips. He did not release the name of the witness, who he said played phone tag with investigators before voluntarily coming to the police department around 10 p.m. Wednesday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

After police released the surveillance footage, the witness came forward to report that he was the man seen following Graham in downtown Charlottesville.

snip

Pleasants said the surveillance videos released by police do not show the unidentified man.

Was that the police interpretation of the video or what the WG told them? If WG saw the video, it seems to me he'd recognize JLM as he's passing directly in front of the camera. He's pretty damned hard to miss.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

The witness, who lives in Charlottesville, told authorities that Graham was walking alone shortly after 1 a.m. and looked as if she was in distress.

“He said the man came up and put his arm around her and they were interacting,” said Charlottesville Police Capt. Gary Pleasants, describing the witness’s account. “He said it looked like someone she knew, so he walked away.”

The unidentified man walked at least a few blocks with Graham shortly after 1 a.m., police said. Graham last texted friends at 1:06 a.m. — likely moments after she was last on video — to say that she was lost, according to police.

bbm

 

[Elley Mae]

Was that the police interpretation of the video or what the WG told them? If WG saw the video, it seems to me he'd recognize JLM as he's passing directly in front of the camera. He's pretty damned hard to miss.

Article if from the 18th sept. So i don't know what they saw then. jmo idk

 

[zapped]

View attachment 60144
The side door is on the left in this image, and the main entrance door is where you see the sidewalk sign. I imagine that's where Abby the ID Checker was standing, and the side door is where she says she saw JL exiting. Both entrances face 5th Street. Behind this is a narrow alley way with dumpsters, so the smoking section must've been right here in front of the building. If HG was hanging outside waiting for JL, she most likely would've been standing right here in this area. I see no reason for her to be around the corner on Water St. I wonder how many people were outside mingling that night.

Do we know what section of 4th St. JL parked his car on? Was it 4th and Water St.? If so, why did he and HG walk back towards the Mall? I think it would've been faster to walk to the corner of Water St. and then walk one block down.

Cant help but notice thats one hell of a blind spot in that alcove. Unless the door person were standing in the middle of the sidewalk and scanning both directions, JLM could have easily let HG in without it being seen.

 

[Emaa]

Cant help but notice thats one hell of a blind spot in that alcove. Unless the door person were standing in the middle of the sidewalk and scanning both directions, JLM could have easily let HG in without it being seen.

Didn't someone post a photo above of the interior of the restaurant that showed (for lack of a better term) glass paneled garage doors that lead out to a patio? Were they up that night?

 

[KAE]

Didn't someone post a photo above of the interior of the restaurant that showed (for lack of a better term) glass paneled garage doors that lead out to a patio? Were they up that night?

I found this image on Google image search:
http://www.c-ville.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/062113_EATS_0396-1024x682.jpg

It's from this page:
http://www.c-ville.com/photos-of-charlottesville-restaurant-week/#.VCgmBOdflLU

They don't lead to a patio however, just the sidewalk.

 

[MadgeMurphy]

Yeah, it looks like the garage doors open but the bars are there to prevent people from exiting that way.
Where is the dance floor? Do they move the dining room tables out of the restaurant and turn the main dining area into a dance floor once the kitchen closes?

 

[jamicat]

I think regardless of what happened BEFORE JM and Hannah disappeared from any eye witnesses and cameras is not the focus as much as what happened AFTERWARDS.

It's pretty clear Hannah was going willingly with JM Drunk and confused, but not fighting him. In fact so agreeable, that those who noticed her being distressed, backed off when JM was in the picture and walked off with her No one is saying that Hannah was being dragged off.

There is one story that she was so out of it that he was carrying her. That she could barely stand on her own. That hits me as odd, since she is seen very much able to walk on her own, even run. If that could be substantiated, it is possible that she was slipped something that is very fast acting --one beer, JM supposedly bought 2, isn't going to do that so quickly even on top of what she'd had. Not unless something else was added to it Then he just had to help her to his car, which allegedly was parked very near Tempo, and off he'd go.

The other reason, I think this might have happened is because JM's face has no marks on it If Hannah was attacked, coerced, it's likely he'd have marks on his face. I'm sure LE is checking out other body parts too, but I'm betting there was no fight since the face,neck area is usually the target. She's a big strong,young woman and would have fought if he went after her unwanted.

 

[otto]

I found this image on Google image search:
http://www.c-ville.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/062113_EATS_0396-1024x682.jpg

It's from this page:
http://www.c-ville.com/photos-of-charlottesville-restaurant-week/#.VCgmBOdflLU

They don't lead to a patio however, just the sidewalk.

The overhead door opens onto Water Street.

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE: Posted information must be backed up with a link. If you can't link it, you can't post it.

Rumors are NOT allowed, nor is repeating posts read on other sites.

In the sticky section of this forum is a thread entitled "Threadiquette". New members, please review.

Thanks.

Bessie

 

[LI-Mom]

I think regardless of what happened BEFORE JM and Hannah disappeared from any eye witnesses and cameras is not the focus as much as what happened AFTERWARDS.

It's pretty clear Hannah was going willingly with JM Drunk and confused, but not fighting him. In fact so agreeable, that those who noticed her being distressed, backed off when JM was in the picture and walked off with her No one is saying that Hannah was being dragged off.

There is one story that she was so out of it that he was carrying her. That she could barely stand on her own. That hits me as odd, since she is seen very much able to walk on her own, even run. If that could be substantiated, it is possible that she was slipped something that is very fast acting --one beer, JM supposedly bought 2, isn't going to do that so quickly even on top of what she'd had. Not unless something else was added to it Then he just had to help her to his car, which allegedly was parked very near Tempo, and off he'd go.

The other reason, I think this might have happened is because JM's face has no marks on it If Hannah was attacked, coerced, it's likely he'd have marks on his face. I'm sure LE is checking out other body parts too, but I'm betting there was no fight since the face,neck area is usually the target. She's a big strong,young woman and would have fought if he went after her unwanted.

We have no proof she was drunk, or drugged. I can equally speculate that they were in Tempo, he dropped her off near the frat party, and something happened to her after that. Ironically. I watched an episode of Forensic Files last night where a guy named Roy Brown was convicted of a murder he didn't commit and served 15 years in prison before The Innocence Project helped get his conviction overturned. LE suspected someone else first but then pinned it on Roy. The prosecutor withheld evidence that exonerated him. The first guy they suspected was the actual killer.

So, sometimes a person's past actions may make them appear guilty, but a conviction is only possible through LE's manipulation of evidence. Just saying.

 

[MadgeMurphy]

Ok thanks for the information. I actually thought it was OK if it was clearly stated to be hearsay. But I will not share anymore from the other site.

 

[Truthy]

<modsnip>

As to the quoted post (BBM):
Evidence of force is force.
Absence of evidence of force is not force.
Her poor judgement is not evidence of force.
Lack of information of her whereabouts is not evidence of force, it isn't even circumstantial evidence of force. It is just absence of information.

Prosecutors lose jurors to reasonable doubt when they say something exists but don't provide evidence, or when they say something is evidence of something else (but it really isn't).

I think it is fine to acknowledge that during all of the visible portions of her time with JM, that HG agreed to be with him. That concept should not be offensive, it should be informative and invoke discussion. Why did she not leave while she could? (Discussing the answer to this question could help prevent loss of other daughters, and no I don't have a personal interest in JM's "innocence.")

I have personally wondered what JM could have offered to make HG choose to stick around. Some have suggested protection, familiarity, a promised ride.

I wonder if it was need, if she stayed to help HIM with something, as was her nature. Did he say he lost something, or was lost himself, or was depressed?

It is just a question of whether her personality was shining through her intoxication (at whatever level that might have been.)

Apparently a common tactic of child predators is to ask for help finding a missing dog. What was JM's strategy, besides removing socks?

I thought she was looking for another drink- tried to get into another pub or two? It happens, people go on a tear, and don't know when to stop. I remember drinking underage, and not knowing where the next beer would come from - and not wanting to stop till closing myself.
And yep, predators look for the drunk girls, especially those with no friends watching out for them.

 

[distracted]

Was that the police interpretation of the video or what the WG told them? If WG saw the video, it seems to me he'd recognize JLM as he's passing directly in front of the camera. He's pretty damned hard to miss.

Could be either. It's definitely a contradiction. The reporter is saying the witness recognized himself in the video and then came in and also states Pleasants says he's not in the video. We only see one other man besides JLM so I tend to think the media got it wrong. The Washington Post article also states that the man with his arm around her had a "close shaved head" and we know that's not true. I bet it is a typo and the reporter meant to say "close shaved goatee".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...662674-3f42-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html

 

[Phoebeb]

Clipped from the article:
City police Chief Timothy J. Longo has asked the council for more than $725,000 to fund additional officers to work the mall, but to no avail. He offered a scaled-back version of the plan costing less than $500,000, but still did not get the money. Instead, the City Council in 2012 approved the Downtown Mall ambassadors program, made up of part-time liaisons who help visitors navigate the mall and act as “eyes and ears” for police.

I wonder if the WG was one of the ambassadors hired to help the police. It would explain a lot.

Now THAT makes sense as far as WG's actions to me. Just imagining him as WG hanging out on the mall at 1:00 a.m. has not made sense to me...