Terri obtained new cell phones from friends to avoid investigator's scrutiny

[cluciano63]

Hey join the club, most of us as well have never been accused of that before either...which is a good thing! Given what you have said about "too much pointing to guilt" does that make sense...respectfully
no. Could you explain further? You mention "there is almost too much pointing to guilt for you to buy it"? Why? Sometimes it is that simple! But I am interested in your thoughts. I never say "never".

I guess I mean almost too much bad behavior, the sexting, the asking about her hair color, the possible failed LD tests, the seemingly uncaring attitude about Kyron, the alleged MFH plot against Kaine, the wonky alibi...I mean all of that should be a dream come true for any prosecution yet they don't have anything there that gives them probable cause to arrest her. And they haven't arrested her. I mean, all of this should mean that of course she is guilty...but where is one piece of real evidence so that LE can use all of this other stuff as back-up?
Kind of hard to explain...I don't believe she is being framed, not at all, that is not what I meant. Just seems like with all of this to add to the pile, they should have been able to haul her in by now and yet they haven't, so I don't know what to make of all of this.

 

[BeanE]

So wait - the phone itself can be tracked, but like another poster said, if you pay cash for it and cash for your minutes, they don't know how to connect YOU to the phone they are able to track. Maybe they can track each of their serial numbers and pings and whatnot, but if they don't know that your 20 dollar bill is the one that bought the phone, and you don't use your own name to register it, I'm pretty sure they can't connect you to it. Don't we always read about drug dealers using these for that reason?

About someone tampering with Terri's phone, etc - I believe it's usually a much simpler explanation than that. MC might very well have been a "plant" to get info and inappropriate behavior out of Terri, and I wouldn't blame LE in the least if they put him up to it or if MC just felt like a vigilante and did it on his own. But I don't think there's an elaborate conspiracy, and if there was there would be more solid evidence "planted" to point to her than there is right now (a csi t-shirt in her gym locker or similar).

In Gabe Johnson's case, his mother ran away to Texas and got a throwaway cell. The thing is, people who get throwaways give the number out to people. It only took LE a few days to get the number from someone she gave it to. Using the number, they were able to trace the phone to the service provider, and from there, find out where the phone was purchased and when it was activated etc.

LE is pretty smart, and all it takes is one person we give info to, to talk. It may well be that Terri has one or more person she considers a friend who is actually passing info to LE.

 

[Dee10]

I guess I mean almost too much bad behavior, the sexting, the asking about her hair color, the possible failed LD tests, the seemingly uncaring attitude about Kyron, the alleged MFH plot against Kaine, the wonky alibi...I mean all of that should be a dream come true for any prosecution yet they don't have anything there that gives them probable cause to arrest her. And they haven't arrested her. I mean, all of this should mean that of course she is guilty...but where is one piece of real evidence so that LE can use all of this other stuff as back-up?
Kind of hard to explain...I don't believe she is being framed, not at all, that is not what I meant. Just seems like with all of this to add to the pile, they should have been able to haul her in by now and yet they haven't, so I don't know what to make of all of this.

Okay, I think I am following you? My thoughts are following what you said above, forget the bad behavior; sexting and hair color or everything else.

What is important is a GJ was called to investigate...seemingly Terri. Just learning Oregon law but...it seems to me LE is following proper procedure. Yes, they probably could arrest her perhaps, but they would still need a GJ (I think, depending on the charge). IMO they have determined she is not a perceived threat to another child...and all eyes are on this case. I have no worries Terrie is not being treated fairly, I wouldn't be surprised actually they are treating Terri "with kid-gloves" given this is a national case.

 

[ami]

In Gabe Johnson's case, his mother ran away to Texas and got a throwaway cell. The thing is, people who get throwaways give the number out to people. It only took LE a few days to get the number from someone she gave it to. Using the number, they were able to trace the phone to the service provider, and from there, find out where the phone was purchased and when it was activated etc.

LE is pretty smart, and all it takes is one person we give info to, to talk. It may well be that Terri has one or more person she considers a friend who is actually passing info to LE.

Ahh, yes! I guess it doesn't make much sense to get a trac phone if you don't use it to call people you know... doh!

 

[wondering1]

Just seems like with all of this to add to the pile, they should have been able to haul her in by now and yet they haven't, so I don't know what to make of all of this.

smb~

I don't think they would "just haul her in" in this case

Here's part of the Oregon Constitution pertaining to when you can charge someone with a felony. Which, granted, is not the same as arresting them for it, but nonetheless:

(3) Except as provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person shall be charged in a circuit court with the commission of any crime punishable as a felony only on indictment by a grand jury.

(4) The district attorney may charge a person on an information filed in circuit court of a crime punishable as a felony if the person appears before the judge of the circuit court and knowingly waives indictment.

(5) The district attorney may charge a person on an information filed in circuit court if, after a preliminary hearing before a magistrate, the person has been held to answer upon a showing of probable cause that a crime punishable as a felony has been committed and that the person has committed it, or if the person knowingly waives preliminary hearing.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/orcons/orcons.html

I'm guessing they want to be able to CHARGE her, not just arrest her. So there are only two options, as others (or at least someone, has already posted) -- grand jury/indictment or preliminary hearing/information. That same poster(s) also explained the reasons why the grand jury is a much more effective tool than the prelim. Basically, it's not an adversarial proceeding. The person charged doesn't get to appear and present evidence (except maybe with the prosecutor's permission?)...among other things.

That's why I think they aren't just arresting her. Makes sense to me. jmoo

 

[cluciano63]

I did not mean to imply she was not being treated fairly at all, I am sure she is, by LE. I guess I am just baffled at whatever it is that LE has that points to her actual guilt...not just her circumstantial "bad behavior." I suppose the cell pings could help prove guilt at some point, if true, but only if Kyron is located somewhere near those pings. Otherwise, the pings might be evidence of concealing her location, but that in itself is not criminal, as far as I know (at least not GJ- kind-of-criminal.) So what I'm saying is that they have all of the above circumstantial stuff and I hope at least one piece of solid evidence...because all of that other stuff is sort of like a whole lotta noise, if meant to stand on its own.

 

[Dee10]

Guessing you won't be happy or agree with the GJ (ham sandwich) verdict (which we don't know who, etc. this is about). :angel:

 

[Jack]

JVM is covering this now. Experts saying whomever did give Terri a phone could possibly be charged after the fact possibly as an Accessory.

Still no word on what type of phone it is. Mike Brooks saying even the throw away phones can be tracked by the carrier. Mike said type of phone is unknown at this time..... that is when he said throw away can be tracked by by the carrier.

LOL, that expert is an [unusual person]. It isn't illegal to get a new cell phone for any reason. And it isn't illegal to give a friend a cell phone either. We have rights in this country, and being suspected of comitting a crime doesn't change that. TH could get a new phone every day and there isn't anything wrong about it. The only way one could be charged as an accessory to a crime for giving someone a cell phone to use is if they gave help knowing it would be used to commit the crime. But saying someone could be charged for giving someone a cell phone to use is just plain ridiculous.

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Is this really a good idea? If you have nothing to hide why do you care about investigators scrunity, please, this just gets shadier every day.

 

[Calliope]

And so would anyone who can read and is on a mission. I guess I dont understand why they are being brought up in this, I mean are you insinuating Kaine is setting her up? You dont think Kaines phone and Desiree and Tonys phones are tapped? I would bet they are, just in the case they get a mysterious call, so dont you think the cops would be able to tell, or is Kaine just that good?

Not sure if you followed the discussion from the start or came in in the middle, but this is where I'm coming from:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5479812&postcount=40"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Terri obtained new cell phones from friends to avoid investigator's scrutiny[/ame]


IOW, yes the content can be monitored because the technology exists.

As far as Kaine and Tony, I was answering to someone who thinks it takes special skills to use this technology. A reporter managed to use it. Kaine is a computer person and Tony is LE. If a mere reporter can do so, I'm sure they can manage too. Just considering those closest to Terri in the days around Kyron's disappearance who might have had the opportunity and reason to want to *bug* her conversations, and reasons why Terri would want or need a new cell. That's all.

I also said it could well be due to Kaine dropping her from the plan.

 

[Ada]

Why would she be expected to give her new number to LE? As far as I know, having a phone is not required. If you are suspected of misdeeds and you are without a phone, LE doesn't demand that you obtain phone service and give a number to them.

I think the new phone via friend might raise eyebrows but little more than that.

 

[Calliope]

Guessing you won't be happy or agree with the GJ (ham sandwich) verdict (which we don't know who, etc. this is about). :angel:

I hope they do vote to indict her. This has gone on long enough--- it's been over 2 months and he needs to be found.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I'm intrigued about the "hacking" tools that have been mentioned in this thread.

This is off-topic, but a friend's daughter in Arizona was going through a divorce from her husband, who was/is very controlling.

He seemed to know everything that was going on in his ex-wife's house. If she got an email from anyone, he knew about it. She got an email from a child's teacher setting up a time for a parent teacher conference. The ex-husband was there waiting at the school when she arrived for the conference.

He would sit in his car, parked outside her house and maybe down a house or two, and one of the neighbors reported he had a laptop in the car and seemed to be working on it. The ex wife wasn't using wifi. How was he getting into her computer?

He probably put a key stroke logger on her PC. He could have done this to her phone, depending on what kind she had.

It isn't that hard, you don't have to be a big geek or that technically advanced to do this.

For the record, I have never done either, but, am pretty confident I could do so (either to pc or to a cellphone) if I wanted.

 

[Leila]

No way to be for sure, but I can speculate how he probably did so..
No need for wifi you can simply hack into anyones email from any computer.. really simple if he had her email, a little more difficult but certainly not impossible tho even if he did not have address(say she changed it when they split up, or at the very least changed passcode) but all of that can be hacked into with any number of easily accessed hack programs or software...

And as was earlier stated about "remote" control of cellphones, that could have been done also to get her text msgs, calls, etc...

Its really scary to know whats out there.. But even scarier to NOT know IMO because what you don't know of or about you are defenseless against...

Thanks so much! I've known about keyloggers and things like that, but what threw me, and this girl's mother was how he seemed to know everything the girl was doing. The girl (ex-wife) bought a new computer, changed ISPs, and took all sorts of steps to safeguard her computer, but no matter what she did, he found out any plans she made by email or text messages, etc.

So I"m very intrigued about this whole topic of hacking.

 

[ami]

Why would she be expected to give her new number to LE? As far as I know, having a phone is not required. If you are suspected of misdeeds and you are without a phone, LE doesn't demand that you obtain phone service and give a number to them.

I think the new phone via friend might raise eyebrows but little more than that.

We don't know when she was given these phones by friends - it could have been during the time when LE was reviewing her (other) cell phone records, while she was still in direct communication with LE... who knows. They may have had a search warrant for Terri's home, phone and computer and this was a phone she didn't disclose to them - we don't know.

I don't think anyone has suggested that LE "demanded" she obtain phone service or anything of the sort. People are speculating about the reason the article implied that the discovery of her other phones caused LE to investigate Terri's friends. Clearly LE knows a lot they don't pass on to us.

 

[cluciano63]

Guessing you won't be happy or agree with the GJ (ham sandwich) verdict (which we don't know who, etc. this is about). :angel:

If this was meant for me, I would be relieved if there is an indictment as then I would assume that LE does in fact have more than just all of Terri's weird actions...I want this to be over, no matter the outsome. It needs to be over.

 

[seeking truth]

TH has become her own worst enemy....IMO

YUP. And she and her "good friends" are the only one who cannot see this...WOW!

 

[ThoughtFox]

I guess I mean almost too much bad behavior, the sexting, the asking about her hair color, the possible failed LD tests, the seemingly uncaring attitude about Kyron, the alleged MFH plot against Kaine, the wonky alibi...I mean all of that should be a dream come true for any prosecution yet they don't have anything there that gives them probable cause to arrest her. And they haven't arrested her. I mean, all of this should mean that of course she is guilty...but where is one piece of real evidence so that LE can use all of this other stuff as back-up?
Kind of hard to explain...I don't believe she is being framed, not at all, that is not what I meant. Just seems like with all of this to add to the pile, they should have been able to haul her in by now and yet they haven't, so I don't know what to make of all of this.

Just to use one example - Scott Peterson wasn't arrested until his wife and baby washed ashore in San Francisco Bay. That didn't mean there was "no evidence" because they had abundant evidence. But LE usually wants to find the body which will give them lots more clues about what happened. They don't have that yet, but that doesn't mean there is no evidence.

Those 200 subpoenas were sent out to gather evidence, and they may have plenty stacked up somewhere which they are going through right now, in my opinion. These things take time and patience.

In my opinion, several people are now caught in a web of lies and the spider is getting closer to them. :Justice:

 

[JSR]

smb~

I don't think they would "just haul her in" in this case

Here's part of the Oregon Constitution pertaining to when you can charge someone with a felony. Which, granted, is not the same as arresting them for it, but nonetheless:

(3) Except as provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person shall be charged in a circuit court with the commission of any crime punishable as a felony only on indictment by a grand jury.

(4) The district attorney may charge a person on an information filed in circuit court of a crime punishable as a felony if the person appears before the judge of the circuit court and knowingly waives indictment.

(5) The district attorney may charge a person on an information filed in circuit court if, after a preliminary hearing before a magistrate, the person has been held to answer upon a showing of probable cause that a crime punishable as a felony has been committed and that the person has committed it, or if the person knowingly waives preliminary hearing.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/orcons/orcons.html

I'm guessing they want to be able to CHARGE her, not just arrest her. So there are only two options, as others (or at least someone, has already posted) -- grand jury/indictment or preliminary hearing/information. That same poster(s) also explained the reasons why the grand jury is a much more effective tool than the prelim. Basically, it's not an adversarial proceeding. The person charged doesn't get to appear and present evidence (except maybe with the prosecutor's permission?)...among other things.

That's why I think they aren't just arresting her. Makes sense to me. jmoo

Correct because there is a time clock ticking the minute they arrest her. You can't just arrest someone and not charge them with something. Within so many hours you have to officially charge someone to keep them locked up.

 

[mayagrl]

No way to be for sure, but I can speculate how he probably did so..
No need for wifi you can simply hack into anyones email from any computer.. really simple if he had her email, a little more difficult but certainly not impossible tho even if he did not have address(say she changed it when they split up, or at the very least changed passcode) but all of that can be hacked into with any number of easily accessed hack programs or software...

And as was earlier stated about "remote" control of cellphones, that could have been done also to get her text msgs, calls, etc...

Its really scary to know whats out there.. But even scarier to NOT know IMO because what you don't know of or about you are defenseless against...

Hi, I may have one explanation, he probably has the network userid and password that was set up when he/she purchased the computer. I'm guessing they have a wireness network? She needs to contact her internet service provider right away. She needs a new secure network userid, delete the old one and even better have her own private account and drop off his. The isp will help her especially if she has a domestic RO, which she should get asap. That will show that she's not taking anymore bs. Also, I hope she changed her passwords on everything, review her security settings on social websites, etc. His stalking may escalate into violence. I know this is OT, so apologies.