Terri's Armchair Psych Profile

[human]

I don't know what the diagnosis is, but she is Marjorie Caldwell to me, Minnesota's most famous murderer (although she never got sentenced for murder)

She's 74 or so now and went to prison again a couple of years ago in Arizona.

She was adopted as an infant by a super super super rich woman.

Marge married a nice man and raised 5 children, a couple of which she pushed to excel in ice skating. By all accounts a good mother.

But she would spend money like a tsunami, getting the family in increasing debt, and the rich family having to bail her out continuously.

She was very charming and would lavish gifts on people she had just met.

She gets divorced from hubby number 1 and marries number 2, a ne'er do well.

She gets hubby number 2 to kill her mother. She's tried as an accessory, but gets off. Some jurors are so in love with her, they keep up correspondence with her for years.

She brings treats to the jurors and the attorneys during her trial.

Roger (hubby number 2) goes to prison, but never rats off Marge.

Marries number 3, but forgets to divorce 2. Number three is the hubby of a friend from ice skating days. Marge is thought to have offed his wife while she is in a nursing home.

The stories go on and on.

Marge wants and needs money, yet never marries a rich guy and she would have access to the wealthiest men across the US.

She is so charming that lots of people just love her.

She gives gifts to lots of people.

She spends money like water.

She is a good mother that drives her children to excel, doing things such as buying hundreds of outfits for her children in skating competitions. Parents feel that she did things to make the other kids fail such as dull their skate blades, but it's just a feeling.

She doesn't start her killing spree until her late 30's.

BTW, the Eckers could feel that they were being used.

People know it. They just may not know the name to put to it.

 

[PDXMom]

I know nothing of that one.... only have the misfortune to know about BPD because the daughter I placed for adoption at birth (who was subsequently kicked out by her adoptive parents and moved in with us) has that diagnosis.

We've been a therapeutic foster home for kids. We figured we couldn't do any worse than what had already been done, but it's been a bumpy road. She's been with us 4 years now. Up and down the roller coaster goes. Mostly down right now. We plan to be leaving next week to move cross country, and of course that is naturally, understandably, her greatest fear.

I have to keep her at a safe distance. It's painful to feel that way about your own child, but I've worked hard to protect my kids from the crazy I grew up with.... she's made a lot of strides, but when the roller coaster heads down, we need to back off and protect the boys from it.

Actually, we had one teen we couldn't reach as foster parents, and as I get to know my daughter better, I think this girl might have been BPD too. My husband and I do not like conflict, yelling, etc. The more outrageous this little girl's behavior became, the more we would get calm, and quiet, and try to reason with her, try and reassure her that we loved her, and we were here for her, and she had a permanent place in our family if she wanted that and was willing to work for it.

She was used to being able to manipulate people, recreated abuse in two long-term foster homes (that had never had any prior allegations or incidents). She could really twist your gut. She had NO idea how to get us to engage with anger... she finally gave up and got really depressed and withdrawn. When her psychologist called saying she was worried but couldn't say why, we had her placed in a group home. We as foster parents had no legal authority to take her razor, belts, shoe laces, she needed to be someplace where she could not take her own life. I hated doing that. We mostly took kids destined for group homes and got them to where they could be successfully placed. I hated not being able to find a way to reach her. I've learned a lot with my daughter that I wish I knew then. With borderlines, you have to learn new ways, you have to be more logical, you have to develop this outer Mr. Spock..... Otherwise they take you down the rabbit hole with them.

BPD has been enough of a learning curve. I hope it's my last experience with complicated mental health diagnoses.

Ahhhhh... then again, it probably won't. When our younger kids are older, we'll probably go back to therapeutic foster care. We had a 7 year gap between our first and our second and third after fertility issues. I just can't bring older kids with issues into the family. Our kids need to be stable, on the right track, close to heading off to college, and then maybe we can start looking at taking in tweens or very early teens. Then the alphabet soup begins again I'm sure.

I never cease to be amazed at the wonderful, selfless things the people on this forum do for others. Rnmif, what a tough path you've taken, and I imagine you've made the world a lot easier for your young charges. If I had a hat, it would be off to you!

 

[rnmif]

BTW, the Eckers could feel that they were being used.

People know it. They just may not know the name to put to it.

I wish I had something more damning to go with what they said. Last time we went to go visit my husband's parents, they staged an "intervention" because he is no longer a Christian (they are extremeist Christians, missionaries, some of their friends were banned from the country they served in).

Because they are missionaries (and give their children's inheritance to any new Christian they admire, and then complain loudly when those same Christians move on when the income stops) they have their loyal followers. My husband and I have been struggling under tremendous burdens, but have done so on our own, we have rarely asked for help, and when we did, it was denied, unless we chose to follow their specific brand of faith.

Issues like rare diseases, autism, cancer take their toll, physically, emotionally and financially. We've been so busy trying to keep our heads above water we don't really spend much time with family. We don't know our neighbors. I take my kids to church when I am physically able, when my health has been at it's worst, sometimes I was not. We have a few close friends who have been there for us through thick and thin. Other than that, we don't have many people we are close to.

My husband's family notices that we don't come very often, but they do not notice that every vacation we've taken over the last 15 years has been to see them. That we have not taken our kids to any of the places they'd like to go, because we feel that it is important for his parents to see their Grandchildren. They choose instead to treat strangers children better.

They have benefitted from my husband's Grandfather's financial support, have had no significant challenges in their lives. Their children grew up in boarding school. Thus they have had the time and resources to grow a collection of fans we have not had the luxury of matching.

Who do you think would come off better in a court of law, or the court of public opinion?

Circumstantial evidence doesn't carry much weight with me, because we never know the whole circumstance, and we've never walked a mile in the other person's shoes.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I don't think everyone else in this case is exactly perfect either, seems they have all had their "issues", of previous relationships for whatever reason, otherwise they would still all be married to the first person they married initially. I just wonder sometimes at all of the biased focus on one person? Maybe some of the others have skeletons in their closet too, just that they haven't been exposed as much for anything like that as TH has been. We really don't know much at all.

 

[Aedrys]

I wish I had something more damning to go with what they said. Last time we went to go visit my husband's parents, they staged an "intervention" because he is no longer a Christian (they are extremeist Christians, missionaries, some of their friends were banned from the country they served in).

Because they are missionaries (and give their children's inheritance to any new Christian they admire, and then complain loudly when those same Christians move on when the income stops) they have their loyal followers. My husband and I have been struggling under tremendous burdens, but have done so on our own, we have rarely asked for help, and when we did, it was denied, unless we chose to follow their specific brand of faith.

Issues like rare diseases, autism, cancer take their toll, physically, emotionally and financially. We've been so busy trying to keep our heads above water we don't really spend much time with family. We don't know our neighbors. I take my kids to church when I am physically able, when my health has been at it's worst, sometimes I was not. We have a few close friends who have been there for us through thick and thin. Other than that, we don't have many people we are close to.

My husband's family notices that we don't come very often, but they do not notice that every vacation we've taken over the last 15 years has been to see them. That we have not taken our kids to any of the places they'd like to go, because we feel that it is important for his parents to see their Grandchildren. They choose instead to treat strangers children better.

They have benefitted from my husband's Grandfather's financial support, have had no significant challenges in their lives. Their children grew up in boarding school. Thus they have had the time and resources to grow a collection of fans we have not had the luxury of matching.

Who do you think would come off better in a court of law, or the court of public opinion?

Circumstantial evidence doesn't carry much weight with me, because we never know the whole circumstance, and we've never walked a mile in the other person's shoes.

ITA. Beautiful post! The so called "friend" I used to have did have other friends and family that supported her. They would probably be shocked if she were accused of doing something against the law. I realized that she was a master of turning every situation into the other's fault and it was "oh poor victim me" when it came to her. She even had a disability she used to get what she wanted, and to get people on her side. It was disgusting.

I think TH is very much the same. She's got the people she's conned on her side, and she's got the people she's used and discarded on the other. And guess which side is bigger? She's not one of those loners that stick out like a sore thumb. Instead, She ingratiated herself into Kyron's school and had a social life such that those loyal friends and family aren't ready to consider that she might have murdered a child. Doesn't mean that she didn't do it. All the time you hear about "pillars of the community" that did horrible things to other people.

I never would have known about people like that until I dealt with one personally. It sounds like she's NPD to me, maybe even sociopathic, kind of like Casey Anthony, but a lot better at socializing and making friends. It's not just anti-social people that do crimes. People who can make friends and act like good moms can also do crimes as well.

 

[rnmif]

I never cease to be amazed at the wonderful, selfless things the people on this forum do for others. Rnmif, what a tough path you've taken, and I imagine you've made the world a lot easier for your young charges. If I had a hat, it would be off to you!

Ah, PDXMom, don't give me too much credit. There's an element of healing my own wounds there, which is an entirely selfish motive.

And we foster parents get more than our share of accolades, deserved or not.
:banghead:

I think my husband and I make an interesting team. He grew up in MK school, with several parents. He had a whole flock of June and Ward Cleavers raising him. I.... grew up in inner city Los Angeles. It is as bad as you think....

He is a lot of the reason I was able to face my own wounds and heal them, and he is as passionate about helping these kids (and their families, I contract with a mentoring program where foster parents help parents on the path to reunification, which is an awesome program!) as I am. I never cease to be amazed at what we went through when my daughter moved in. She lived with us for nearly 2 years, and it was an intense ride. She loves me, needs me to love her, but he loves her, and she loves and respects him as well. Often he can reach her in ways that none of her other parents can, because there's no baggage, no loaded relationship.

I've known a lot of step-parents, but I don't know too many who work as hard, put up with as much, or love as fiercely or protectively as he does.

I got really lucky to find a guy like him. When I look at the divorce rate for any one of the issues we have faced, the fact that we are still together is to me, amazing, and speaks to his strength, and the strength he helped me find within myself. He believed in me before I could.

We love being foster parents. It's never the kids that are the problem. The lack of resources, the bureaucracy, the tussles with parents who themselves are probably borderlines, they get tiring, you get worn down, but the kids....

For all the ups and downs, they make your heart sing. When you see a kid who has no hope become strong, wise, balanced, ready to take on what comes, and you see how they learn to deal with the issues in their lives..... It is a gift to be a part of the team that helps put these families back together again, stronger, better, healthier....

Most foster parents don't make it past a year. The system is still having a hard time learning that maybe it can change and adapt to be more... user friendly? But the key really is having a safe and sane way to blow off steam so you can get back to the job at hand. It's kind of like newborns. The sleep, fatigue, noise, confusion all melts away when you see that first smile, look at that angelic sleeping face. It's not that raising a newborn isn't hard, it's that the highs are so high that the lows kind of seem insignificant in comparison.

It's less a testament to me and my husband and speaks more to how wonderful the experience can be.

BTW, there are lots of opportunities in foster care, respite care, mentoring, volunteering. When we lived in Southern California there was this huge church that took these kids under their wing, and did Christmas presents for every child in a very large county, a huge Christmas party, summer camp, etc.

There are the school supplies drives, coats, gifts... There are foster parents who do this as a business. It's a controversial topic, I'll go on record as saying I'm not a fan of what some term "professional parenting". But it's a spectrum that goes from suboptimal to horrific. We did respite care for the family of Maryah Ponce, and when I saw the foster family name on the news that night I about lost my mind. We got to the point we would not watch the kids anymore, because we felt we were enabling behavior we shouldn't. Of course now I regret not continuing, because I wonder if I had been able to get her siblings to tell me something, if they would have been moved.

These organizations that support foster families with gifts and supplies are a blessing, both for the ones that have meager resources, and the ones who tend to cheap out... It's nice for these kids to be able to hold their heads up with nice school supplies, decent, clean, well fitting clothes, and other little luxuries that help them blend in. They have enough burdens, they don't need to stand out like a sore thumb.

Ack. Sorry. I'm not passionate about foster care or anything....

 

[rnmif]

ITA. Beautiful post! The so called "friend" I used to have did have other friends and family that supported her. They would probably be shocked if she were accused of doing something against the law. I realized that she was a master of turning every situation into the other's fault and it was "oh poor victim me" when it came to her. She even had a disability she used to get what she wanted, and to get people on her side. It was disgusting.

I think TH is very much the same. She's got the people she's conned on her side, and she's got the people she's used and discarded on the other. And guess which side is bigger? She's not one of those loners that stick out like a sore thumb. Instead, She ingratiated herself into Kyron's school and had a social life such that those loyal friends and family aren't ready to consider that she might have murdered a child. Doesn't mean that she didn't do it. All the time you hear about "pillars of the community" that did horrible things to other people.

I never would have known about people like that until I dealt with one personally. It sounds like she's NPD to me, maybe even sociopathic, kind of like Casey Anthony, but a lot better at socializing and making friends. It's not just anti-social people that do crimes. People who can make friends and act like good moms can also do crimes as well.

Well, I guess spectacular cases of that are the cheerleader Mom who tried to hire a hit man for her super special snowflake daughter's rival, and the MySpace Mom who herself (or knew her kids were playing?) a boy who flirted with a girl and turned on her and she killed herself? Some people are just twisted. Perfectly capable of looking and acting normal but inside is this mass of self-centeredness.

I don't know. It's crazy. It's what makes these cases so hard. I've said before, I'll say again, you can't make sense of the senseless....

 

[AbbieNormal]

I don't know if you are a professional in the field or not but this is one of the best descriptions I have read about Borderlines. Thank you.

Thats what I was thinking too, great post & thank you.

 

[AbbieNormal]

No she isn't. In order to call oneself a psychologist, the person must be licensed and have a PhD or PsyD with the exception of some school psychologists with a MA., at least that's the case for Illinois. moo

Pat Brown has a masters in criminal justice. Her interest began when she rented a room in her home to a suspected murderer. There is an interesting video somewhere of Pat talking about how she became involved in profiling and how her career developed. moo

Jeez, kind of reminds me of Ann Rule working side by side with Ted Bundy and never suspecting a thing.
Pat's probably lucky she wasn't murdered herself (if he really was a murderer).

 

[AbbieNormal]

Forgive me if I am wrong but I do not see those things as addictions to try to fill a void. They are anxiety releasing behaviors, especially in the case of self-injury. Most BPDs especially women have a history of childhood sexual abuse. Drugs and alcohol are used as a way of self-medicating.

I do think it is possible that TH could have had some kind of psychotic break. She seemed to be very perfectionistic and just could not keep up with all that she thought she should do. As she lets things go this would be very emotionally horrifying for her and it is possible that she started drinking heavily as a result to drown her feelings of not being worthy and low self-esteem.

I'd add an internet addiction, as well, JMO. Or at the very least a FB addiction, a need to let others know every single thing she was doing, etc.

 

[AbbieNormal]

I also have a family member with this personality disorder. Recovery can only come with acceptance/acknowlegement of this "disease".

In terms of Terri, her void was fillled with her children & their activities.

Do we all remember the science fairs of our past where certain students won first prize even when it was known to all the parent's had done the project 99%?

I bet Terri was enfuriated when HER project did not win.

Renminiscent of days gone by.

When I was in school we always had to write reports on certain subjects, they had to have a cover sheet, plus a cover, etc and I remember many of my fellow students having reports that I am sure were done by their parents.

My folks made me do my own, darn it. (As a result, I love to do reports)

abbie

 

[AbbieNormal]

Honestly I never understood all the diagnoses of borderline, psychopathy, narcissistic or sociopathy. All I really know about her is from her Facebook when it was open and a few shots of her on TV. When Kyron first went missing I looked up her Facebook and I had no red flags. A few casual remarks that may not have been the best in timing but nothing terrible. The only things that might send out alarms were the DUI, the seeming inconsistencies about how long she knew DY (which may be honest mistakes), her denial of problems when KH left and the cheating her ex husband suposedly talked about, which may or may not be true. Nothing that screams psychiatric issues really. She may be depressed judging by the physical changes in the last 8 months. Maybe domestic pressures if her husband was cheating but again not confirmed.
If she harmed Kyron I honestly can't figure it out. None of her "friends" or people that knew her have come out and talked about anything other then her being a loving mother. No one (other then KH, DY and TY) has turned against her. I would think if she were displaying signs of mental illness someone would have told the media. They would eat that up.
I have to say I highly doubt the murder for hire thing. Doesn't really make sense and why wouldn't he go to the police at the time? If it were true I agree that probably shows something is wrong with her but I just don't know.
The thing that is scary is IF she did this and there were no warning signs at all, it makes us all feel vulnerable because ANYONE could snap and we'd never see it coming. Our own spouses could be capable of something bad if she did that and no one saw it coming. Until people close to her talk about her behavior I have to believe that this just came out of the blue and no one suspected it could happen. Frightening.

JMO I don't discount the MFH plot just because the landscaper didn't report it. Maybe a sexual liason took place and he was embarassed, or was afraid his wife/ girlfriend would find out, etc. JMO

abbie

 

[Haeve]

I don't think everyone else in this case is exactly perfect either, seems they have all had their "issues", of previous relationships for whatever reason, otherwise they would still all be married to the first person they married initially. I just wonder sometimes at all of the biased focus on one person? Maybe some of the others have skeletons in their closet too, just that they haven't been exposed as much for anything like that as TH has been. We really don't know much at all.

Well, I'd say feel free to start an armchair psych thread on any of the other people, but right now we're only allowed to sleuth DS and TH. Of all the people in this case, the only ones who really get my psychological hinky meter going (and believe me I know hinky--see above) are TH and DS's ex-BF. And by "hinky" I mean "serious psychological problems". (I might include MC but rather than "hinky", he sets off my "doofus-meter". ) I do realize that we're going on just "tip of the iceberg" information about these people, but then, isn't this entire website kind of like that?

Everyone I know has made bad choices, had bad boundaries, had "issues" of one sort or another--addictions, dependency, attachment, anxiety, depression, you name it. But mostly they just end up hurting themselves. I can speak for myself here as well. And I would not hold up under such scrutiny as we have on this site.

I also have a theory about KH's personality that I've voiced on other threads but he's never raised my hinky meter. I know lots of people like him and they're all harmless. Meanwhile, TH reminds me of my mother and she is not harmless. At least not to those closest to her. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[AbbieNormal]

Yes, as long as we looked "cute" to the outside world...Mom had done a good job. It's taken me many years to clearly see what my mother was truly all about...herself! Thank you for sharing!

My mother was the same way. When I figured it out on my own in the past 2 years (it's become worse with mild dementia) it really twisted my mind for quite a long time. I questioned almost every memory I had of my childhood. I mean, my head was messed up. For awhile I secretly hated my mom, then felt guilt over feeling that way, as I know my mother does love us all very much in her own way.
My Dad was always presented as "the bad one", because he was an alcoholic (a functional one, not a lay-around-the-house-drunk kind) and because he was not Christian. Or should I say he did not go to church with the rest of the family. None of us wanted to go but my mom, but he was the Bad Guy. All the things he did wrong were amplified by her to us. But nobody else was to know, all the family secrets were never revealed to my moms "coffee klatch", even tho those women ran their mouths about THEIR husbands.
Over the years growing up if we exhibited any signs of being like my Dad, she pointed it out to us as a bad thing.
The truth was, my Dad was an aeronautical intelligent engineer who worked for NASA for several years and was very "into" the space program. I idolized him. Yes, he was an alcoholoic. So was his dad and his grandfather, and so is my brother. The truth is, I was so turned off by religion because of my mom I don't step foot in church, although I believe in God. The truth is, I am terrified I have her traits myself and am constantly "checking myself" mentally to be sure I am not exhibiting signs of NPD.
When my Dad died in 2008 she was cruel, saying how he was never a good husband, etc in the midst of our grief, because they had been divorced for years so she figured that gave her reason/license to trash him at his memorial and afterwards. I tried to stay away from her right after he died, but unfortunately the following Sunday (at Church, of course) she twisted her ankle and broke it and had to stay off her ankle for 6 weeks, was in a cast, which made ME the one in charge of taking care of her, daily visits to her house, and more bad info regarding my Dad. I would tear up sometimes and say, "Mom, I miss Dad so much" and she would completely ignore me. I took care of him the last 3 years of his life. There was nobody I could "grieve to". Finally about 4 weeks into it I got in a big argument with her and told her she had pizzed off the wrong person as I was the one who was giving her her showers 4 x a week. I went home and called my oldest daughter and asked her to do it for me, I couldn't take it. Always the one grandkid that's always trying to win favor w/ my mom for some reason, she was happy to do it.
When you other posters learned or realized your mom had NPD, did it screw your head up too, or is it just me?

abbie

 

[Beatrice]

IMO Terri is definitely an addictive personality. An Obsessive Compulsive in search of perfection. Her self worth comes from her doing for others...Being "perfect"

She obviously had secrets from Kaine. Her secret alcohol abuse, friendship with DeDe, boyfriend, etc.

I wonder if she had a secret shopping compulsion. Certain buys from EBay show this....Lots of books! Saving items from J for Kyron and from Kyron to baby K?

When she was married to 2nd husband/Ecker (sp?) they had a restaurant business and a storage unit business...I wonder if Terri had a secret storage unit/shed for her compulsive buying? A place to get away, get high, sleep, be with her "stuff", be her other self?

Desiree uses the word STASHED in terms of Kyron's location. Would it be located on Sauvie Island? The first cell ping area?

(Remember that Scott Peterson had a secret storage unit where he had his secret boat, phone, computer and made the cement anchors.)

 

[human]

IMO Terri is definitely an addictive personality. An Obsessive Compulsive in search of perfection. Her self worth comes from her doing for others...Being "perfect"

She obviously had secrets from Kaine. Her secret alcohol abuse, friendship with DeDe, boyfriend, etc.

I wonder if she had a secret shopping compulsion. Certain buys from EBay show this....Lots of books! Saving items from J for Kyron and from Kyron to baby K?

When she was married to 2nd husband/Ecker (sp?) they had a restaurant business and a storage unit business...I wonder if Terri had a secret storage unit/shed for her compulsive buying? A place to get away, get high, sleep, be with her "stuff", be her other self?

Desiree uses the word STASHED in terms of Kyron's location. Would it be located on Sauvie Island? The first cell ping area?

(Remember that Scott Peterson had a secret storage unit where he had his secret boat, phone, computer and made the cement anchors.)

You know, that makes sense. It doesn't look like her clothing or home had a lot of stuff, but I haven't seen every room obviously. So, if she was spending money like water, what was it on?

Or she just had a secret bank account.

 

[Beatrice]

All I can see is she kept a very tidy/organized home.
She liked to go to the gym & possibly "cheap" shop....for "stuff" possibly not in the home. Clothes, toys, arts & crafts things that she couldn't let Kaine know about...A compulsive hoarder? Who's "stuff" gives them comfort, an identity, one living in the past.

Even her new boyfriend was from "high school"

JMO.

 

[Beatrice]

JMO I don't discount the MFH plot just because the landscaper didn't report it. Maybe a sexual liason took place and he was embarassed, or was afraid his wife/ girlfriend would find out, etc. JMO

abbie

Maybe he took it at the as a joke?

 

[shelbar53]

Question for armchair psychiatrists.
How is Teri handling the self imposed isolation? No computer or cell phone. No shopping, going out to eat. Her lawyer must of really read her the riot act after that fiasco of sexting.

Is she realizing that she could be facing prison time and it will be worse in prison?

 

[Haeve]

My mother was the same way. When I figured it out on my own in the past 2 years (it's become worse with mild dementia) it really twisted my mind for quite a long time. I questioned almost every memory I had of my childhood. I mean, my head was messed up. For awhile I secretly hated my mom, then felt guilt over feeling that way, as I know my mother does love us all very much in her own way.
My Dad was always presented as "the bad one", because he was an alcoholic (a functional one, not a lay-around-the-house-drunk kind) and because he was not Christian. Or should I say he did not go to church with the rest of the family. None of us wanted to go but my mom, but he was the Bad Guy. All the things he did wrong were amplified by her to us. But nobody else was to know, all the family secrets were never revealed to my moms "coffee klatch", even tho those women ran their mouths about THEIR husbands.
Over the years growing up if we exhibited any signs of being like my Dad, she pointed it out to us as a bad thing.<snip>

When you other posters learned or realized your mom had NPD, did it screw your head up too, or is it just me?

abbie

SBM

Except for the religion part, the part I snipped could be my family too. It's eerie how many unhappy families are alike.

I knew my mom was a narcissist but it didn't really hit home how much it affected me until last summer. I was a wreck for weeks and I questioned everything. I'm much better now and ready to move on. It helps that I've ceased contact with her. A while back she asked my brother "Why is Haeve mad at me?" :snort: It's so beyond "mad at her" I can't even tell you. I'm not angry, I'm just done.