Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #12

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Valentina said:
Do you believe your government never lies to you or never tries to cover things up? To believe they wouldn't do that is naive. It's seeming more and more that all governments are corrupt but the US happens to be very good at hiding it and appearing fair. They're incredibly smart. But just because those in power say this kid is guilty doesn't mean he is. They have the power to provide evidence, even where there is none. They have the power to control the general population through the media using simple psychological methods. I don't want to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist but along with all of the examples of changing stories and holes in the case, I feel that Dzhokhar's behaviour is not one of a psychopath, or a terrorist. Just because his friends and family do not have authority or expertise doesn't mean their views mean nothing. They were the ones who knew him. He pleads not guilty but why would we listen to what he has to say, right? When we have the media to tell us what he's thinking? He did not have any personality disorder, he didn't have any psychological disorder, he wasn't even an angry person. It just doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

So just because friends and family say he's innocent, we should ignore the mounting evidence we know of?

REALLY?

The video at the marathon?
The still photos of the Watertown scene where they threw explosives at the cops? Where TT died while trying to kill cops?
Should we not believe the carjacking victim who escaped these terrorists?
Should we not believe Jeff B when he tells us he looked into the eyes of the bomber when the bag was placed at his feet?
Should we believe the MIT cop shot himself?

IMO you have to be extremely naive to believe the government is planting all this evidence and making everything up.

Do you have links to show he doesn't have a personality disorder, a psychological disorder, or that he's not an angry person? Because you stated it as fact.
I've followed this case closely since the day the bombs these two monsters laid down tore the limbs off of totally innocent people and killed three of them, and I've NEVER seen anything that said he has no mental issues.
I've seen no medical reports at all come to think of it.


GMAB with this government conspiracy BS.

JMO
 
Valentina said:
Do you believe your government never lies to you or never tries to cover things up? To believe they wouldn't do that is naive. It's seeming more and more that all governments are corrupt but the US happens to be very good at hiding it and appearing fair. They're incredibly smart. But just because those in power say this kid is guilty doesn't mean he is. They have the power to provide evidence, even where there is none. They have the power to control the general population through the media using simple psychological methods. I don't want to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist but along with all of the examples of changing stories and holes in the case, I feel that Dzhokhar's behaviour is not one of a psychopath, or a terrorist. Just because his friends and family do not have authority or expertise doesn't mean their views mean nothing. They were the ones who knew him. He pleads not guilty but why would we listen to what he has to say, right? When we have the media to tell us what he's thinking? He did not have any personality disorder, he didn't have any psychological disorder, he wasn't even an angry person. It just doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

DT has an attorney. It is possible he plead not guilty because he did not kill the police officer himself. That he may not have know how much impact the bombs in the backpack would have or that it would kill people. There are many, many possibilities that we just do not know yet. But he does have an attorney to advise him and regardless of what he confessed to the crimes he is being charged with may or may not apply. His behavior is relative to the situation at the time and so was his reaction. While friends and relatives say it was not consistent with who he is he will have a chance to tell his story or present his evidence at trial. jmo
 
Valentina said:
Do you believe your government never lies to you or never tries to cover things up? To believe they wouldn't do that is naive. It's seeming more and more that all governments are corrupt but the US happens to be very good at hiding it and appearing fair. They're incredibly smart. But just because those in power say this kid is guilty doesn't mean he is. They have the power to provide evidence, even where there is none. They have the power to control the general population through the media using simple psychological methods. I don't want to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist but along with all of the examples of changing stories and holes in the case, I feel that Dzhokhar's behaviour is not one of a psychopath, or a terrorist. Just because his friends and family do not have authority or expertise doesn't mean their views mean nothing. They were the ones who knew him. He pleads not guilty but why would we listen to what he has to say, right? When we have the media to tell us what he's thinking? He did not have any personality disorder, he didn't have any psychological disorder, he wasn't even an angry person. It just doesn't add up.
Click to expand...
Family & friends have expressed their opinions freely and openly as is their right in this country. And YES their views mean something, just not something I happen to agree with. First of all family and friends are not exactly unbiased, especially with the death penalty on the line, second of all he did not KILL and maim family and friends.
Thirdly, you have not provided any proof of his mental or psychological health. Psychopaths are extremely good actors and very capable of not showing anything other than what they WANT YOU to believe. And lastly, I personally listened to the live feed from the time the police officer was killed until late in the night after the shoot out, and I don't believe any of that was fabricated, call me naïve, but no, I believe what I heard was the real deal.
 
Let's not forget:

Just before 3 p.m. Monday, Bauman was waiting among the crowd for his girlfriend to cross the finish line at the Boston Marathon. A man wearing a cap, sunglasses and a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt looked at Jeff, 27, and dropped a bag at his feet, his brother, Chris Bauman, said in an interview.
Two and a half minutes later, the bag exploded, tearing Jeff’s legs apart.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-19/world/38657323_1_boston-marathon-bag-fbi-officials

When Jeff Bauman, 27, seriously injured in the Boston Marathon terror attack and captured in a now iconic photograph, regained consciousness at Boston Medical Center, he asked for a paper and pen and according to Bloomberg News wrote:

"Bag, saw the guy, looked right at me."

The Concord, N.H. man described the suspect to the FBI while still in intensive care, the news wire service reported.

"I've had many times alone with him, and yes, he told me every single detail," Chris Bauman told Bloomberg.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1321582


Great witness IMO
I believe Jeff Bauman.
I do not believe the conspiracy theorists.

JMO
 
Kimberlyd125 said:
....
Great witness IMO
I believe Jeff Bauman.
I do not believe the conspiracy theorists.

JMO
Click to expand...
Yep, He WAS THERE! & He described the bomber! NONE of us/police/his family or friends were there. JEFF was. His legs ARE GONE, no faking that. The end.
 
While I believe 100% that DT and TT are guilty I welcome opposing viewpoints and discussion.So glad not everyone shares the same opinion.
What angers me personally about the case is how preventable it was.I'm not that smart and educated but what is so hard about learning from past mistakes?
It's not a "conspiracy" that America helped create Al Qaeda and yet still supports and funds terrorism if it's in their interest.That's why I'm confused about how easily asylum was given even to known chechen terrorists (eg ILYAS AKHMADOV),I've also learned there's oil in Chechnya.I also know both Saudi and Russia warned the US against TT,yet these warnings were ignored because the US didn't think he would strike against us.
IMO Terror is Terror and violence creates violence and nobody,especially children should have to suffer.The FBI is spending billions a year on fake terrorist plots,it's ridiculous to me.If we want peace ,denounce violence IMO
Ultimately in this case TT and DT alone are to blame however.I believe TT was a narcissistic time bomb who probably would have committed atrocities either way after he became disillusioned. DT was young,dumb,culturally depended and glorifying his older brother while deserted by his parents IMO
That is just my take on things.
 
totally agree!

Look, I believe in certain government conspiracies, but how does bombing a Boston Marathon further what agenda? Im willing to listen. Military targets and stuff like that, o.k. but in this case I just don't see the upside.
 
I don't think there is any government conspiracy in this case period. That in no way means we can't question parts of the investigation or proceedings, but to paint some broad picture of conspiracy in this case just doesn't make any sense to me or to mistrust everything the Govt. does. To all be aware and to question, yes, that makes sense and is part of being an active and responsible citizen.

At first, I thought the Govt. was downplaying any bigger connections TT/DT had, but not now really - although I'm sure they are still looking for 'influences' at the least or terrorism trends.

I am really upset with Zubeidat Tsarnaeva and how she has fueled things in the media. How she acts like her sons are victims. I think she should face her charges in the US for theft and for running, she is still a criminal. She is a coward and irresponsible, someone who is now trying to make her dead son into a martyr and claim he was set up when it appears she helped lead TT (and hence DT) to a radical position. I don't like that, I don't like any of it. Her arrogance is astounding and it is a slap in the face to everyone in the US and the victims.

But no, the Rolling Stone cover is not something I find outrageous. I do find the officer's behavior of releasing evidence photos of great concern. That is a huge No No.

My theory is that TT became disgruntled and more and more violent prone (taking it out on women even) over a few years, his ego crushed, eventually leading to him trying to prove what a tough guy he was and devoted to Islam (?IDK). I don't know how someone goes so far over the line that they think it is ok to even kill innocent children, let alone kill and horribly maim others. I don't like that at all and I assume almost no one here does. It's a heinous crime.

Having said all that, I want to see DT in prison for life. I think there will be plenty of evidence to convict him - but let's let the legal process proceed, he has his rights. I want to see Zubeidat face her charges and go to jail. I don't want to cruelly hurt either one of them by inflicting bodily damage. I think the death penalty is archaic and serves no purpose - I hope one day it is no long because it pains me to think I have to be a part of that. Peace begins with being civil and humane instead of mimicking the inhumane behavior of those we condemn and seeking revenge (even if just in our minds and on this forum).
 
claudicici said:
While I believe 100% that DT and TT are guilty I welcome opposing viewpoints and discussion.So glad not everyone shares the same opinion.
What angers me personally about the case is how preventable it was.I'm not that smart and educated but what is so hard about learning from past mistakes?
It's not a "conspiracy" that America helped create Al Qaeda and yet still supports and funds terrorism if it's in their interest.That's why I'm confused about how easily asylum was given even to known chechen terrorists (eg ILYAS AKHMADOV),I've also learned there's oil in Chechnya.I also know both Saudi and Russia warned the US against TT,yet these warnings were ignored because the US didn't think he would strike against us.
IMO Terror is Terror and violence creates violence and nobody,especially children should have to suffer.The FBI is spending billions a year on fake terrorist plots,it's ridiculous to me.If we want peace ,denounce violence IMO
Ultimately in this case TT and DT alone are to blame however.I believe TT was a narcissistic time bomb who probably would have committed atrocities either way after he became disillusioned. DT was young,dumb,culturally depended and glorifying his older brother while deserted by his parents IMO
That is just my take on things.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you that the whole asylum thing should be looked into (and in the IT case also). Not thinking this has anything to do with oil in Chechnya although I do agree we seem to get in bed with people over oil. We pay dearly for that as well as innocent people in other countries pay dearly.

I'm having a really difficult time with the message DT supposedly wrote in the boat though. The message, to me, is what seems to reconnect their motive with the Middle East and the wars. And, of course, we know that Chechens and Russia are connected to arms and fighting in the Middle East.

While there was always an Islamic element to the struggle, Chechens have traditionally followed a liberal, Sufi brand of Islam, and many of the leaders of the 1990s independence movement were secular. Even with the rapid growth of radical Islamism, with the horrific terrorist attack on schoolchildren at Beslan in 2004, and more recently on civilians at Moscow's Domodedovo airport in 2011, there has been a specifically anti-Russian bent to the terrorism. Those rebels who professed Islamist jihadi ideas would often express admiration for the West and the United States.

That has changed as more Chechen fighters have travelled to jihadi training camps, and the region itself has become more Islamised. Mr Kadyrov has led a campaign to enforce the wearing of headscarves by Chechen women, and has banned the sale of alcohol in the republic.

Oliver Bullough, the author of a history of the Caucasus, said: "During periods when state institutions have broken down or turn against them, the Chechens have traditionally turned to Islam to support them. This has been encouraged by the region's pro-Moscow rulers as a means to bolster their own legitimacy, resulting in an Islamification race between the two factions."
Although there are Chechens fighting in Syria, Afghanistan and other global conflicts, they have not traditionally been seen as a threat to US security, something which may well change in the aftermath of the marathon bombing.
Click to expand...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...slam-has-driven-chechnyas-rebels-8580933.html


I guess my problem is that DT and TT did exactly what you are opposing (and me too) fighting violence with violence. I had another major thought on all this and their 'reasoning/motive' that is now in the wind!

"The FBI is spending billions a year on fake terrorist plots"

What does your statement above mean?
 
Well I am not saying I am right about my view, it's just a theory though I don't want to use the word conspiracy because I don't think the whole thing was made up with actors and fake blood. That is crazy talk.
And maybe even Tamerlan WAS guilty, I just feel like even if he was his younger brother didn't seem to be based on his behaviour only. Even if the only thing I had to go off of was what he posted on twitter. Which, I know, is not objective solid evidence. Just thoughts.
I know Jeff Bauman says he saw the bomber right before, but he described his clothing which was similar clothing to all of those agents around the scene as well. I study Psychology and I know how easy it is to change what people think they remember by the power of suggestion. I am not saying this happened, just a thought to put out there.
The pressure cooker bombs would have been pretty heavy to carry but in the video Dzhokhar's backpack is on one shoulder. It doesn't seem like it was very heavy.
And again, I don't know what the purpose would be for them to lie about all of this. I am not the one to figure that out. I am just expressing certain doubts I (and many others) have.
And I don't think that if it was set up in any way that it would be readily apparent or all that obvious for us as a public to figure out. They're not stupid.
 
Valentina said:
Well I am not saying I am right about my view, it's just a theory though I don't want to use the word conspiracy because I don't think the whole thing was made up with actors and fake blood. That is crazy talk.
And maybe even Tamerlan WAS guilty, I just feel like even if he was his younger brother didn't seem to be based on his behaviour only. Even if the only thing I had to go off of was what he posted on twitter. Which, I know, is not objective solid evidence. Just thoughts.
I know Jeff Bauman says he saw the bomber right before, but he described his clothing which was similar clothing to all of those agents around the scene as well. I study Psychology and I know how easy it is to change what people think they remember by the power of suggestion. I am not saying this happened, just a thought to put out there.
The pressure cooker bombs would have been pretty heavy to carry but in the video Dzhokhar's backpack is on one shoulder. It doesn't seem like it was very heavy.
And again, I don't know what the purpose would be for them to lie about all of this. I am not the one to figure that out. I am just expressing certain doubts I (and many others) have.
And I don't think that if it was set up in any way that it would be readily apparent or all that obvious for us as a public to figure out. They're not stupid.
Click to expand...

BBM1: Well, thank goodness the authorities have more to go on than his Twitter account. Because if we went by my Twitter account, I sure wouldn't be considered too "grandmotherly."

BBM2: I hate to disagree, but they wouldn't be that heavy at all.


JMO
 
Valentina said:
Well I am not saying I am right about my view, it's just a theory though I don't want to use the word conspiracy because I don't think the whole thing was made up with actors and fake blood. That is crazy talk.
And maybe even Tamerlan WAS guilty, I just feel like even if he was his younger brother didn't seem to be based on his behaviour only. Even if the only thing I had to go off of was what he posted on twitter. Which, I know, is not objective solid evidence. Just thoughts.
I know Jeff Bauman says he saw the bomber right before, but he described his clothing which was similar clothing to all of those agents around the scene as well. I study Psychology and I know how easy it is to change what people think they remember by the power of suggestion. I am not saying this happened, just a thought to put out there.
The pressure cooker bombs would have been pretty heavy to carry but in the video Dzhokhar's backpack is on one shoulder. It doesn't seem like it was very heavy.
And again, I don't know what the purpose would be for them to lie about all of this. I am not the one to figure that out. I am just expressing certain doubts I (and many others) have.
And I don't think that if it was set up in any way that it would be readily apparent or all that obvious for us as a public to figure out. They're not stupid.
Click to expand...

What's your theory about the carjack victim's statements?
And the street fight where multiple explosives, including a pressure cooker bomb was used?
Oh and the friends who were caught removing evidence from the apartment. Didn't one admit it?
 
Just to refresh our memories :

New York (CNN) - During the 90-minute ride of terror, Tamerlan Tsarnaev kept talking.

He barked out orders, detailed his hatred of Americans and asked his carjacking victim to remain calm.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev said right after he got in the vehicle that he was responsible for the bombings and the officer's death, according to Danny.

"This is like something you see in a movie, isn't it?" Tamerlan Tsarnaev said at one point during the carjacking.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/boston-attacks-carjacking?c=&page=0

More at link.

I have no reason to doubt "Danny"

JMO
 
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1323143

Tsarnaev brothers used ATM card of carjacking victim: cops


http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1325450

See it! Dzhokhar Tsarnaev withdraws cash from an ATM after carjacking and murder of MIT officer

Chilling new images emerged Tuesday of Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev coolly swiping $800 from an ATM with a hostage’s bank card.

The close-up surveillance images show the 19-year-old accused killer casually punching in the victim’s ATM pass code. He appeared calm for someone wanted in a global manhunt and accused of killing three people with homemade bombs, injuring scores more and executing a campus cop less than an hour earlier.
 
My theory about Danny, the carjack victim? He has no real identity other than "Danny". We don't even know who he is. He says he is Chinese and that he escaped the car while Tamerlan was pumping gas and Dzhokhkar was inside paying (or using an ATM...one or the other). Yet the surveillence photos show both brothers in the store (or was that another store?).
The photos from the ATM do not prove anything other than the fact that he was using an ATM.

Tarek Ahmed, the man working in the gas station where "Danny" showed up described him as being caucasian between 20-25 and said Danny came in the store seeming crazy and said they "pushed him out of the car".
So which was it? White or Chinese? Escaped or was pushed out?
If that's supposed to be convincing evidence, I think they need to work on the story a little more.

And they say his friends removed his backpack from his room. I thought he left that at the crime scene and that it exploded?

As for the "shootout" between police. The only witness account of that which I heard said she didn't see the brothers shooting back. She also said she saw the police run over Tamerlan. And why do we hear what sounds like them yelling, "we didn't do it" on the video?
 
Valentina said:
My theory about Danny, the carjack victim? He has no real identity other than "Danny". We don't even know who he is. He says he is Chinese and that he escaped the car while Tamerlan was pumping gas and Dzhokhkar was inside paying (or using an ATM...one or the other). Yet the surveillence photos show both brothers in the store (or was that another store?).
The photos from the ATM do not prove anything other than the fact that he was using an ATM.

Tarek Ahmed, the man working in the gas station where "Danny" showed up described him as being caucasian between 20-25 and said Danny came in the store seeming crazy and said they "pushed him out of the car".
So which was it? White or Chinese? Escaped or was pushed out?
If that's supposed to be convincing evidence, I think they need to work on the story a little more.

And they say his friends removed his backpack from his room. I thought he left that at the crime scene and that it exploded?

As for the "shootout" between police. The only witness account of that which I heard said she didn't see the brothers shooting back. She also said she saw the police run over Tamerlan. And why do we hear what sounds like them yelling, "we didn't do it" on the video?
Click to expand...

It was another store.
So you think "Danny" is not being truthful?
Why? For what purpose?
Work on the story a little more?
So I guess only suspected terrorists are believable.

"Danny" is not believable.
Jeff is not believable.
Boston PD is not believable.
Watertown PD is not believable.
The FBI is not believable.
Photos are not believable.
Video footage is not believable.
DT's friends are not believable.
Physical evidence (cap and other things found in the apartment) is not believable.

:waiting:
Really?

Is it possible they owned more than one backpack?
My 15 year old DD has at least 6 in her closet.

There are PHOTOS of the street battle!
Photos that show big terrorist and little terrorist taking cover behind a car and firing at police officers. One photo shows the pressure cooker bomb at the feet of TT before he threw it.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1324875

I've watched the video several times. I have never heard "we didn't do it". Not once.
 
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