Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #12

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This is a better source for the pictures of the shootout on Laurel Street. It is the website of Andrew Ktizenberg, the guy who took the photos. One of the captions on the NYDaily News page is completely wrong regarding when Dzhokar got in the SUV and drove away, they say in the opposite direction. That is not true.

http://www.getonhand.com/blogs/news/7743337-boston-bombing-suspect-shootout-pictures

Thank you for this link.

Not only are the pictures great, Andrew details what he saw as an EYE witness to the street shoot out.

From your link:

When I looked outside my window, I could clearly see two people (the Tsarnaev brothers) taking cover behind an SUV and engaging in gunfire. After witnessing shots being fired I promptly ran up the stairs to my 3rd floor bedroom to distance myself a little further away from the gunfire. As I ran into my room, overwhelmed by shock, adrenaline, and curiosity, I jumped onto my bed to stay below the windows but also have a clear view at the shooters and photograph the event. As soon as I was laying safely on my bed I started taking pictures with my iPhone 5 and captured the following images that documented the terrifying shootout with the Tsarnaev brothers, which then led to an overnight citywide manhunt.
 
What's your theory about the carjack victim's statements?
And the street fight where multiple explosives, including a pressure cooker bomb was used?
Oh and the friends who were caught removing evidence from the apartment. Didn't one admit it?

Thank you Kimberly. I guess we are just supposed to ignore everything about the "Bomber Boys." It's all just a big conspiracy. Complete with paint and death...

Good grief...

JMO
 
I do agree with you that the whole asylum thing should be looked into (and in the IT case also). Not thinking this has anything to do with oil in Chechnya although I do agree we seem to get in bed with people over oil. We pay dearly for that as well as innocent people in other countries pay dearly.

I'm having a really difficult time with the message DT supposedly wrote in the boat though. The message, to me, is what seems to reconnect their motive with the Middle East and the wars. And, of course, we know that Chechens and Russia are connected to arms and fighting in the Middle East.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...slam-has-driven-chechnyas-rebels-8580933.html


I guess my problem is that DT and TT did exactly what you are opposing (and me too) fighting violence with violence. I had another major thought on all this and their 'reasoning/motive' that is now in the wind!

"The FBI is spending billions a year on fake terrorist plots"

What does your statement above mean?

I'm talking about entrapment stings ....while I think they're great and highly effective in pedophile cases I think they are useless in fighting terrorism.
This is an old article in MSM
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-7103284.html
that's the book I read
The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI's Manufactured War on Terrorism: Trevor Aaronson: 9781935439615: Amazon.com: Books
 
I agree that the "conspiracy" theory doesn't explain the shootout on Laurel street. Although the videos are unclear and you can't actually see clearly that it is for sure the brothers, let's assume it is because it not being would just be too extreme. So, they are engaging in a shootout with police and they apparently throw a pressure cooker bomb although it's also hard to see based on these photos.
All that is real but I still feel confused as to why. Why did they do it? Why did they not disguise themselves? Why did they not runaway or leave Boston?
I also still think it is possible that it could have been the older brother Tamerlan and the younger was unaware at first.
This part makes sense but why so much confusion in other parts of the story. And why aren't their photos of Tamerlan at that crime scene after he was killed, ok maybe that is evidence that they can't release. But how with all of the police there did they not catch Dzhokhar?
Some parts make sense and other parts still leave room for so many questions.
 
I agree that the "conspiracy" theory doesn't explain the shootout on Laurel street. Although the videos are unclear and you can't actually see clearly that it is for sure the brothers, let's assume it is because it not being would just be too extreme. So, they are engaging in a shootout with police and they apparently throw a pressure cooker bomb although it's also hard to see based on these photos.
All that is real but I still feel confused as to why. Why did they do it? Why did they not disguise themselves? Why did they not runaway or leave Boston?
I also still think it is possible that it could have been the older brother Tamerlan and the younger was unaware at first.
This part makes sense but why so much confusion in other parts of the story. And why aren't their photos of Tamerlan at that crime scene after he was killed, ok maybe that is evidence that they can't release. But how with all of the police there did they not catch Dzhokhar?Some parts make sense and other parts still leave room for so many questions.

BBM: LE did catch him without the loss of another life. As the wife of a former police officer my husband always said in terms of a shootout, "I'm the one who is coming home every night." LE can't predict what suspects are going to do when they are armed with multiple weapons. Plus the fact that most terrorists will die rather than be taken into custody. jmo
 
I agree that the "conspiracy" theory doesn't explain the shootout on Laurel street. Although the videos are unclear and you can't actually see clearly that it is for sure the brothers, let's assume it is because it not being would just be too extreme. So, they are engaging in a shootout with police and they apparently throw a pressure cooker bomb although it's also hard to see based on these photos.
All that is real but I still feel confused as to why. Why did they do it? Why did they not disguise themselves? Why did they not runaway or leave Boston?
I also still think it is possible that it could have been the older brother Tamerlan and the younger was unaware at first.
This part makes sense but why so much confusion in other parts of the story. And why aren't their photos of Tamerlan at that crime scene after he was killed, ok maybe that is evidence that they can't release. But how with all of the police there did they not catch Dzhokhar?
Some parts make sense and other parts still leave room for so many questions.

The marks on then road where the pressure cooker bomb went off can clearly be seen.
How could DT be unaware at that point?
There had already been a carjacking, a cop killed, and a chase.
He was at the bomb scene, texted friends after stating take what you want out of the apartment, with TT when the cop was killed, at the store with TT, in the carjacked vehicle, at the ATM with "Danny's" card, and was at the street shoot out where his brother killed. Fled the scene and was found in the boat.

I mean, I don't see how anybody could possibly question DT's involvement in ANY of it.

He's as guilty as TT.

And he chose his actions.

If he didn't want to be a part of it, he had plenty of time to step away from the madness and turn himself in.

JMO
 
My theory about Danny, the carjack victim? He has no real identity other than "Danny". We don't even know who he is. He says he is Chinese and that he escaped the car while Tamerlan was pumping gas and Dzhokhkar was inside paying (or using an ATM...one or the other). Yet the surveillence photos show both brothers in the store (or was that another store?).
The photos from the ATM do not prove anything other than the fact that he was using an ATM.
<snip>


I can't speak to all of your post (at least not at once), but will address the BBM above.

I am sure that Danny's identity will eventually come out. This is where patience is a virtue as the guy really could be in danger. I also think you are vastly underestimating what evidence they absolutely have - like who's ATM card was used, that DT did not have permission to use it, and that he probably has no connection to the person it belongs to.

Are you trying to claim they knew Danny?
Are you trying to claim it wasn't his card?
Are you claiming he is a plant and wasn't truly a hostage?

I think if you want to make your case, you really need to attend to the details and make it clear on what you are questioning or claiming and whether it logically makes sense. Otherwise, your case is weak.
 
While I believe 100% that DT and TT are guilty I welcome opposing viewpoints and discussion.So glad not everyone shares the same opinion.
What angers me personally about the case is how preventable it was.I'm not that smart and educated but what is so hard about learning from past mistakes?
It's not a "conspiracy" that America helped create Al Qaeda and yet still supports and funds terrorism if it's in their interest.That's why I'm confused about how easily asylum was given even to known chechen terrorists (eg ILYAS AKHMADOV),I've also learned there's oil in Chechnya.I also know both Saudi and Russia warned the US against TT,yet these warnings were ignored because the US didn't think he would strike against us.
IMO Terror is Terror and violence creates violence and nobody,especially children should have to suffer.The FBI is spending billions a year on fake terrorist plots,it's ridiculous to me.If we want peace ,denounce violence IMO
Ultimately in this case TT and DT alone are to blame however.I believe TT was a narcissistic time bomb who probably would have committed atrocities either way after he became disillusioned. DT was young,dumb,culturally depended and glorifying his older brother while deserted by his parents IMO
That is just my take on things.
Nicely written!
 
I don't think there is any government conspiracy in this case period. That in no way means we can't question parts of the investigation or proceedings, but to paint some broad picture of conspiracy in this case just doesn't make any sense to me or to mistrust everything the Govt. does. To all be aware and to question, yes, that makes sense and is part of being an active and responsible citizen.

At first, I thought the Govt. was downplaying any bigger connections TT/DT had, but not now really - although I'm sure they are still looking for 'influences' at the least or terrorism trends.

I am really upset with Zubeidat Tsarnaeva and how she has fueled things in the media. How she acts like her sons are victims. I think she should face her charges in the US for theft and for running, she is still a criminal. She is a coward and irresponsible, someone who is now trying to make her dead son into a martyr and claim he was set up when it appears she helped lead TT (and hence DT) to a radical position. I don't like that, I don't like any of it. Her arrogance is astounding and it is a slap in the face to everyone in the US and the victims.

But no, the Rolling Stone cover is not something I find outrageous. I do find the officer's behavior of releasing evidence photos of great concern. That is a huge No No.

My theory is that TT became disgruntled and more and more violent prone (taking it out on women even) over a few years, his ego crushed, eventually leading to him trying to prove what a tough guy he was and devoted to Islam (?IDK). I don't know how someone goes so far over the line that they think it is ok to even kill innocent children, let alone kill and horribly maim others. I don't like that at all and I assume almost no one here does. It's a heinous crime.

Having said all that, I want to see DT in prison for life. I think there will be plenty of evidence to convict him - but let's let the legal process proceed, he has his rights. I want to see Zubeidat face her charges and go to jail. I don't want to cruelly hurt either one of them by inflicting bodily damage. I think the death penalty is archaic and serves no purpose - I hope one day it is no long because it pains me to think I have to be a part of that. Peace begins with being civil and humane instead of mimicking the inhumane behavior of those we condemn and seeking revenge (even if just in our minds and on this forum).
And see from my viewpoint this notion

But no, the Rolling Stone cover is not something I find outrageous. I do find the officer's behavior of releasing evidence photos of great concern. That is a huge No No.

IMO, The No No is what my concern is. IMO, they should have released those picks the night it happened. There is nothing evidentiary there IMO.

They did not release them and look at the one they released - our LE got HIM. They did not want us to see that "getting him" was in reality a kid, bleeding to death and exhausted trying to crawl out of a boat (and trying real hard not to fall out)_ to peacefully surrender.

IMO, All the hoopla “Captured”

When I look up the word it is to take by force or stratagem; take prisoner; seize: The police captured the burglar.
When I look up surrender it means to give (oneself) up, as to the police
Look at the pic released – all of them around him “in action” The new picture he looks like he is about to fall “Out” of the boat.
Big difference - (especially when you throw into the mix 9874 LE violating 1000’s of people’s rights regarding no search warrants to enter hundreds of citizen homes , in gangs of six armed to the max, opening peoples closets and refrigerators – according to our constitution that is illegal

We can take this to any extreme – serial killer on the loose – anyone wants LE barging in our private dwellings because there is a “danger” out there.

He could have more bombs, well a serial killer could have more rope, and an arsonist could have more matches.
Cigarettes are a “danger” – do we want everyone barging in to seize them? It’s the principle here. I was floored watching LE close down the 10th biggest city in the country because a 19 year old is on the loose.

Two people who used a pressure cooker – by that I mean something might be different if they set off a nuclear bomb or something.

NO I am not minimizing family’s losses etc. at all. Needs to be in perspective. IMO a lot of the word conspiracy here.

When I look that word up I get any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result. Are we saying that the picture released does not give a different notion about what happened?
And IMO, yes, this is related, the murder of the guy in Orlando. They all have just decided poof we are not investigating anything, we are not telling citizens what occurred – that sounds IMO, like Russia of yesteryear to me. IMO it’s not ok.
Are we saying that the FBI, who killed an individual (Orlando) did not chose a “given result” by basically blowing the whole innocent off?
. If I shot an unarmed person 7 times someone would want to know why and what exactly happened.

It becomes IMO, even more ludicrous in at the end of the day a citizen pushed a 9 and a 1 followed by another 1 no one FOUND him by all this LE acumen. They were TOLD he is there.

It then becomes actually frightening that IMO the public bought the notion that from the beginning they needed the public’s help to “identify” individuals known to two superpowers to be a danger and need someone’s cell phone picture to find out who they might be.

This ought not to be the game “Clue”!

Am I saying LE did not put their heart and soul into it not at all. BUT the ability these days to manipulate the public are frightening.

IF they really needed spectator’s cell phone pictures of someone on the radar for years then we have a whole other kind of problem.

It’s the same thing with cooperate America censoring what is supposed to be a free media (Rolling Stone Cover) Where did freedom of the press go?

Like anything TV violence, video games *advertiser censored* if anyone finds these items offensive then they have the right to not look, buy, and or participate. Anything.

40 years ago, IMO if cooperate America tried not to sell a copy of the New York Times cause they did not like the headline there would have been an uproar.

That is the way it is supposed to be, that supposedly is what makes us different, IMO.

The notion that lots of people thought they were glamorizing “his picture “IMO, that is ones perspective and OK to have but MY perspective does not have to be EVERYONE else’s or its banned.

Furthermore Rolling Stone is a widely respected publication. They have no control over the fact that the kid is a nice looking kid.

It is not like they airbrushed him – that’s him – the cover story was about him, they put a picture of him of the cover of this month’s edition of what is the biggest IMO, story of the year.

How dare Rolling Stone put it on their cover!


Additionally all the folks who felt as if they had the “right” to censor it by not selling it and making headlines made its sales soar
Rolling Stone sales double with 'Boston Bomber'...
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/news/companies/rolling-stone-boston-bomber/?npt=NP1

IMO, it was a terrifically written piece that gave nuance to the him. Nothing more, nothing less. I knew more about him after reading the piece than I did before I read it. That is what journalism is supposed to do – but it is supposed to be freedom of the press, IMO.

What CVS and all the rest did was control what the public had the right to choose to read if they saw fit. It also, when it was happening, in this day and age IMO, hit me as silly.

In this day age some folks in a boardroom really believed that by censoring a publication they would “prevent” those who wanted to read it (evidently a lot of folks) they did so. Rightfully-it is a right for us to choose.

As far as the individual who released the pictures, he released a picture. He gets in trouble for releasing the truth? Scary again.
He interfered with an “investigation”? Well, typically in “investigations” a picture tells a thousand words.

Is there an “ongoing investigation” about him bleeding and surrendering? About him coming out the boat? About him putting his hands up? About him pulling his shirt when up while cooperating with law enforcement when directed to do so?

Was it like his identity was a secret? What did the LE guy who released the pictures compromise?

So, in sum we have IMO:
Amendment IV
Search and arrest
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads, in part, "Congress shall make no law… abridging the Freedom of Speech, or of the press."
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+the+Press
 
I agree that the "conspiracy" theory doesn't explain the shootout on Laurel street. Although the videos are unclear and you can't actually see clearly that it is for sure the brothers, let's assume it is because it not being would just be too extreme. So, they are engaging in a shootout with police and they apparently throw a pressure cooker bomb although it's also hard to see based on these photos.
All that is real but I still feel confused as to why. Why did they do it? Why did they not disguise themselves? Why did they not runaway or leave Boston?
I also still think it is possible that it could have been the older brother Tamerlan and the younger was unaware at first.
This part makes sense but why so much confusion in other parts of the story. And why aren't their photos of Tamerlan at that crime scene after he was killed, ok maybe that is evidence that they can't release. But how with all of the police there did they not catch Dzhokhar?
Some parts make sense and other parts still leave room for so many questions.
I concur! From the beginning I did not by the "running over his brother on purpose " EVER. Think about the loyality that is known between the two.

Think about the hectic last 20 minutes everyone that was there in Watertown went through.

The scene was on the crazy side........ I think he accidently ran over his brother, it just makes a better story, the guy is trying to flee 545 cops- I dont think it is ideal driving conditions IMO

And you get back to everything we have heard from people who knew him prior to that day he was a really liked collage kid.

The notion that he is going to run him over just never sounded credible.


How "accidently" was never put into the story was interesting to me from the moment it was breaking.

Now, if we had been on a 6 lane expressway I would conclude that it would be pretty easy to ascertain if someone ran over someone with intent or accidently but with cops cars, guns, bombs, shootings , yelling , cop radios blaring it is totally credible to me that he accidently ran over his brother trying to escape IMO nothing more nothing less

But is makes a better headline the way it is huh!


Besides............ does someone running over someone on purpose "visually" look different than someone accidently running over someone?
 
Wanted to give details.......


The issue has sold 13,232 copies since going on sale on July 19, according to data collected from 1,420 retailers by sales tracker MagNet. That was slightly more than double the magazine's average sales in 2012.



generated big newstand sales

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/news/companies/rolling-stone-boston-bomber/?npt=NP1

The issue sold 13,332 copies since July 19 at 1,420 retail stores -- nearly double the magazine's 52-week average of 6,541,



http://www.latimes.com/business/mon...-sales-boston-bomber-20130801,0,6575277.story
 
I concur! From the beginning I did not by the "running over his brother on purpose " EVER. Think about the loyality that is known between the two.

Think about the hectic last 20 minutes everyone that was there in Watertown went through.

The scene was on the crazy side........ I think he accidently ran over his brother, it just makes a better story, the guy is trying to flee 545 cops- I dont think it is ideal driving conditions IMO

And you get back to everything we have heard from people who knew him prior to that day he was a really liked collage kid.

The notion that he is going to run him over just never sounded credible.


How "accidently" was never put into the story was interesting to me from the moment it was breaking.

Now, if we had been on a 6 lane expressway I would conclude that it would be pretty easy to ascertain if someone ran over someone with intent or accidently but with cops cars, guns, bombs, shootings , yelling , cop radios blaring it is totally credible to me that he accidently ran over his brother trying to escape IMO nothing more nothing less

But is makes a better headline the way it is huh!


Besides............ does someone running over someone on purpose "visually" look different than someone accidently running over someone?

Well DT did have one other option which may have spared the life of his brother and that would have been to give himself up to police before he attempted to flee. The object of all those cop cars, guns, shootings, yelling, radios to a rational person would be to put your hands up. I don't believe LE brought any bombs along to the encounter. DT's actions were criminal but to what degree will be determined in court. I just know that shooting at police officers, a lot of them (545), will probably not get you many supporters. jmo
 
Well DT did have one other option which may have spared the life of his brother and that would have been to give himself up to police before he attempted to flee. The object of all those cop cars, guns, shootings, yelling, radios to a rational person would be to put your hands up. I don't believe LE brought any bombs along to the encounter. DT's actions were criminal but to what degree will be determined in court. I just know that shooting at police officers, a lot of them (545), will probably not get you many supporters. jmo

Exactly!

And describing DT as a kid, bleeding to death and exhausted trying to crawl out of a boat (and trying real hard not to fall out)_ to peacefully surrender holds no water with me.

He could have peacefully surrendered before he was bleeding to death and exhausted. Before the MIT cop was killed and "Danny" was carjacked and robbed of the money in his bank account. Before the Watertown street shoot out.

He had no choice but to give up or be killed at that boat. He was caught. Surrounded. He gets no kudos from me. He's a cold blooded murderer.

He committed very adult crimes and I refuse to label him as some sweet, innocent, brainwashed, likable KID!

JMO
 
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3691819

FBI Says It Could Not Have Prevented Boston Marathon Bombing: Officials
Aug 01, 2013


FBI officials have concluded that the agency could not have done more to prevent April's Boston Marathon attacks, law enforcement officials told The New York Times.

According to multiple internal reviews examining the investigation, agents were unable to investigate Tsarnaev more thoroughly due to federal law and other restrictions imposed by the Justice Department. The review notes that agents are prohibited from wiretapping on an investigation of that type, according to the Times.
 
Defense has a long road ahead of them trying to "humanize" DT because of all the videos and pictures that are available. He has already taken the first steps during the FBI interview by being truthful. The rest is up to him, let him tell his story. Right now it is a hot subject and the people who were the most affected need time to heal and grieve. All of us want the truth which has nothing to do with what DT was before the bombing but who he had become before and after the bombing. This is what he will have to deal with himself because there is no way back for him now. He made choices right up to the very end and he'll be held accountable for those choices. Terrorism is a very serious matter. jmo
 
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3691819

FBI Says It Could Not Have Prevented Boston Marathon Bombing: Officials
Aug 01, 2013


FBI officials have concluded that the agency could not have done more to prevent April's Boston Marathon attacks, law enforcement officials told The New York Times.

According to multiple internal reviews examining the investigation, agents were unable to investigate Tsarnaev more thoroughly due to federal law and other restrictions imposed by the Justice Department. The review notes that agents are prohibited from wiretapping on an investigation of that type, according to the Times.

So FBI claims they can not wiretap somebody they were specifically warned about, while NSA can apparently wiretap everybody, including those not suspected of anything. What kind of nonsense is this?
 
....very frustrating,I thought that's why they changed the rules after 911 when NSA was listening to everything being said in AlQueda headquarters but the FBI wasn't allowed to listen once the guys were in the states ??
 
I just listened to a podcast interview with Janet Reitman, the author of the Rolling Stone article.

It was done by the people at The Longform (which is new to me). "The Longform Podcast is a weekly conversation with a non-fiction writer on how they tell stories."

The actual interview can be heard here, its about 35 minutes long with one tiny commercial halfway through:

http://longform.org/posts/longform-podcast-53-janet-reitman

I found it very interesting. It was mostly about process which I often find as compelling as the end result itself.
 
You all have very logical cases and make good points but all of your points seem to be under the assumption that we can absolutely trust the FBI, CIA & American Government when in reality that in itself is not logical.

And I can accept your points and say you are all correct but I still feel there is something more complex under the surface here. Tamerlan's history isn't very good so it's not hard to label him as a criminal but who knows if that history is relevant to this. You can be abusive to a woman and not be a terrorist. You can even be a serial killer but not be a terrorist. Whatever he did before isn't relevant to what he did here. You can't hear past histories and connect the two.
I know we have the shootout as proof and that is fine and maybe it's correct and true but that doesn't mean we should stop asking questions. Honestly we can't see clear images from any shootout photos that even tells us that the people who were there were in fact Dzhokhar and Tamerlan. I know it's evidence and it's highly assumed to be them *or known to be them* but can you honestly identify them clearly in any photos or videos?
And in the ATM photo, where is the proof that he was not using his own card?
We have all this evidence but it all relies on what the people in power tell us.
I honestly don't feel like we can trust them as much as most people assume.
But I clearly see that the majority still believe in them.
I guess they have a few more years until they really have to worry about the people catching on.
 

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