GUILTY Thailand - David Miller, 24, & Hannah Witheridge, 23, Koh Tao, 15 Sep 2014

[hunch77]

In some countries, how you dress can definitely contribute to attention being created, a person being singled out, followed etc. Doesn't mean the victim is at fault, EVER. But the fact is that sexuality is extremely repressed in some countries (you only understand this really when you live there for some time) and a woman displaying skin in a way we in the West find absolutely acceptable and normal and unarousing (arms, shoulders, neck, legs, etc), WILL get unwanted attention. Add alcohol and dark hours to the mix (on the side of the perps) and it can get sticky real fast. Again, NOT the fault of the victim, any victim. jmo

From my experience being in koh phangan, there are half naked people a plenty and a "free-love" scene available IF that is what you are into. The thousands of half naked tourists who stay in the islands means even if it's not behaviour/attire that is culturally acceptable for thais themselves it is in no way shocking to them to see farang being this way.What I'm saying is that how much dress, or what dress is a non issue as it always is when people are attacked. The perpetrator is always responsible. Any decent human being would make sure someone was safe if they came across them half naked, drugged up or drunk. I'm not saying D and M were either of these things but just echoing the sentiment that the victim is never at fault, as Elainera has said.
Here is a link to a blog with a detailed inside eye on how the islands "work" in light of recent events:-well worth a read IMO
http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

 

[hunch77]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/news/434098/pm-deploys-cops-troops-to-koh-tao

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/PM-vows-crackdown-on-Koh-Tao-vices-30244060.html

This all just seems like such a mess.I don't know what to think anymore.
I believe something is amiss in the ambiguity of whether or not the two recent suspects were submitted to a dna test or not. I've read elsewhere that there is no way in hell that dna results would have been able to be taken from the suspects and results delivered within 24 hours. What the hell is going on?

Rest in Peace to those who have gone. Praying justice is not illusive.
And as for the comments about social media getting in the way-from what I've read in various places online as I've followed this case, people commenting on social media/forums and the like have been one step ahead of reports from national newspapers in thailand. It's almost like they are getting their leads from social media.

 

[jellybeanz]

I read that blog posting earlier in the day Hunch and it only cements my original thoughts that these people in authority on the island are the epitome of corruptness.

I know some people on here and in other places have their doubts on SMcA's version of events, but applying occams razor in all instances makes me think he is innocent and came within an inch of his life of being the proverbial scapegoat.

I am sick of reading the reports from the corrupt domestic and foreign media on that Island and in Thailand as a whole. They all have their own vested interests and live in fear of the junta. It is sickening.

The lives and memory of these two young people are being desecrated in front of our eyes on a daily basis. I really feel for their families and what they must be going through.

If the FBI or Scotland Yard had been investigating this case it would have been an open and shut case days ago.

The Thai police released 2 of these guys after 3 hours of questioning and admonished them completely in less than 24 hours after stating they had passed DNA and urine tests.
An utter joke, when you consider the travel transfers from the island to the test centres.

One of the guys who was supposed to have fled the island the day after the murders and supposed to be on the run, turns out to have went to study at his university placement in Bangkok and wasn't really on the run. Yet, they couldn't contact him for what? 36 hours and I'm still not sure if they have contacted him.

This whole thing stinks.
All these people (cops and influential families) care about is getting this over and done with and getting back to their scams and fleecing the visitors to their island.

Do they think the rest of the world looking in zips up the back?

 

[hunch77]

It is beyond frustrating and completely heartbreaking. I'm hoping that if social media voices keep questioning and exposing the holes and inconsistencies that justice will have to prevail ultimately.
What have hannah's friends said about what happened that night?There have been literally no reports at all, no witness statements at all.
Were the guys Sm implicated dna tested? If so were they tested against the weapon and the dna recovered from poor Hannah? This needs to be proven and justified what with the inconceivable distances samples would have had to cover in the time, as you mentioned jellybeanz.
The second link i posted above talks about this suspect in bangkok who they have now located at university who has a rock solid alibi-allegedly.
Yep you and me both-I am literally overwhelmed with the stench of confusion and corruption and ineptitude of this investigation.
I really don't want to go to thailand ever again at this point.
How can the expats in koh tao be silent on this?How can they stay there knowing a murderer/murderers are in their midst(probably)???
David and hannah could have been me and my sister, you and your brother, your kids...Just (now deleted) rants of aggression towards SM on the koh tao "community" facebook page.
No compassion from the suspects towards the victims families in media, just complaints about social media.Outrageous.

I wish one or some of Hannah and David's friends would give an interview to english media about what happened even if the case is that they don't know what happened. I'm sure they are suffering deeply in grief right now and I have complete compassion for that...and i just don't know how the truth is going to see the light of day if this investigation carries on as it has done.

btw I read on thaivisa forum more chat about the comments on the german forum and mention that the person who spoke about SM was a spaworker..somehow she/he was helping SM clean blood off his guitar at an unspecified time/location at least this is what is suddenly being reported out of nowhere i presume.I also read that the police planted "blood stained" trousers in Christopher ware's suitcase right at the beginning.

 

[Lovejac]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tish-backpackers-murdered-on-Thai-island.html

How weird it feels to see this picture. They look so happy and carefree. And to know now, that in a few hours something horrendous would happen to them

 

[dotr]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loc...-son-cleared-as-a-suspect-in-koh-tao-killings

"Since the killings, police have focused on finding Asian men 170 centimetres tall and with a 40 shoe size, based on surveillance camera footage and footprints on Sairee beach where the couple died."

bbm

 

[jellybeanz]

I really shouldn't go there, but each day I do, I become even more sickened by the 'community' on that island.

I've only looked at the first 2 or 3 posts and already I am seeing they are having a meeting tomorrow for employers who employ Burmese nationals.
I very much doubt it is to discuss pay rises or better working conditions for them.

I am also seeing the following picture. I'm not the greatest fan of bats, in fact I am frightened by them, but this is horrific. Poor thing staring into the camera lens and you can almost sense its plea to be cut down and freed.

Facebook Koh Tao Community board...



Edited to add that in fairness the majority of people replying understand the need for these bats on the island and are saying to cut it down. Lets hope they have one of their meetings to stop the culprits putting up these nets in the jungle.

 

[jellybeanz]

...local village headman in Koh Tao announced to give one million baht cash reward to police if they have substantial evidence to implicate him and his family in the murder of the two British tourists,

Why doesn't he just add this sum of money to the existing 733,000 Baht reward to catch the killers?

Oh wait. Ooops, sillly me!

"Local village headman" - yet he claims he isn't influential.


Read more of this badly written drivel here...
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/koh-tao-headman-offers-one-million-baht-cash-evidence-proves-family-implicated-tourist-murder/

PS I'd like to see the CCTV taken inside the 7-11 that is talked about in this article.

 

[dotr]

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/international/thai-cameras-move-after-murders-1.595322

" Around 150 police have been posted to the island but are so far apparently no closer to finding the killer.

Gen Prawit said: "The area where the incident happened was very dark. The closed-circuit cameras could not capture images. I have ordered (authorities) nationwide that there must be sufficient lighting, especially in Bangkok and major tourist cities. And there must be closed-circuit TV cameras all over the country.

"I'm confident we will see clearer results within two months."

 

[dotr]

Why do they think the attack involved at least 3 men ?
Three men to one man, one woman, ( if it was just H and D ) is beyond brutal, sounds like a gang,

jmo.


http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/world/security-pledge-after-thai-murders-1-6861863

"Detectives were reportedly trying to trace a man who left Koh Tao the day the bodies were discovered.

The man was said to be in the capital Bangkok, and police were reported to believe at least three men were involved in attacking the young Britons.

Mr Miller, from Jersey, and Miss Witheridge, from Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, were found with severe head wounds on the island’s Sairee beach on September 15."

bbm.

 

[imjustagirl123]

Hannah and David wouldn't have stood at chance against 3 men, out of all the cases I read of, this one has been bothering me the most. It's just so very sad. IMO Hannah was the obvious target here. Jealousy motivated I am sure of and I think poor David only stepped in to save her but as I already said they wouldn't have stood a chance.

But I also believe there are people (other than the perpetrators) that have information that are too fearful to come forward. I just wish they the Thai police would tell people they can come forward with info in total confidence, if that hasn't already been done so.

 

[ellie b]

http://www.trust.org/item/20100922171500-nipvs/?source=search

Hannah and David wouldn't have stood at chance against 3 men, out of all the cases I read of, this one has been bothering me the most. It's just so very sad. IMO Hannah was the obvious target here. Jealousy motivated I am sure of and I think poor David only stepped in to save her but as I already said they wouldn't have stood a chance.

But I also believe there are people (other than the perpetrators) that have information that are too fearful to come forward. I just wish they the Thai police would tell people they can come forward with info in total confidence, if that hasn't already been done so.

But everybody in Thailand knows that the Thai police absolutely cannot be trusted. This is a cover up without a shadow of a doubt.(IMO) The Thai people in general will do their utmost to avoid interaction with the police and they certainly would be too scared to implicate anyone with influence. I believe that the island residents know who committed this disgusting crime and have known from the very beginning.
This article gives an insight into the extent of corruption in the Thai police force.

http://www.trust.org/item/20100922171500-nipvs/?source=search
"In Thailand’s most sensational crimes, the prime suspects are often the police.” The country’s police have shown time and time again that they are far more inclined to commit crimes than to solve them. Many Thais have developed a weary acceptance of police behaviour and are rarely surprised even by the most blatant and lurid tales of corruption."

 

[dotr]

Still cannot see what was specific about H to receive that type of ugly, personal, staged sexual violence, she had only been there 3 days!

 

[hunch77]

and this where
"Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung"
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/web...Koh-Tao-murders-seriously-flawe-30244163.html

and YES what about her phone and wallet. Just saw a post on koh tao community facebook page of someone having found an abandoned motorbike deep in the jungle and she has reported it to the police.perhaps a potential get away for suspect/s to get a boat off the island from somewhere difficult to access( and witness) ?

 

[imjustagirl123]

Ellie- thank you for that. I haven't really traveled much and have never been to Thailand but thanks for that it does give me some insight. Given that information it seems plausible that the case may never be solved which is very saddening for their family/friends.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but it/was it possible that the UK police could have went over and started their own investigation, a bit like when the UK police were involved in the Madeleine case?

 

[ellie b]

"Sorry if this has been asked before, but it/was it possible that the UK police could have went over and started their own investigation, a bit like when the UK police were involved in the Madeleine case? "

I believe UK police have worked in unison with the Thai police in the past, but in this instance because there is a cover up (MOO) they would not want UK police to be involved.

 

[imjustagirl123]

That's a sad state of affairs. After reading further things, I also believe this is one heck of a cover up. No justice will be done here or they may make a scapegoat
Whoever did this will have the guilt on them forever though although I can't imagine it bothering them much since they seem to be complete and utter uncivilized psychopaths

 

[gia2]

and this where
"Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung"
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/web...Koh-Tao-murders-seriously-flawe-30244163.html

and YES what about her phone and wallet. Just saw a post on koh tao community facebook page of someone having found an abandoned motorbike deep in the jungle and she has reported it to the police.perhaps a potential get away for suspect/s to get a boat off the island from somewhere difficult to access( and witness) ?

I had read reports about the condom found at the scene, but not about there only being Hannah's DNA on it. That really is strange. I presume tests on Hannah's body would indicate whether there was presence of lubricant from a condom.
Since I first read about the condom I have been really worried that Hannah may have been raped by more than the two men we know about (perhaps men who are more aware of what can be traced back to them). It doesn't make sense though that their DNA wasn't on it. Could they have used two, if so, why bother? Just take the used one with you and dump it. Could it have fallen out of one of their pockets or they forgot to take it with them when they left the scene. Still, why no DNA at all.

 

[hunch77]

I had read reports about the condom found at the scene, but not about there only being Hannah's DNA on it. That really is strange. I presume tests on Hannah's body would indicate whether there was presence of lubricant from a condom.
Since I first read about the condom I have been really worried that Hannah may have been raped by more than the two men we know about (perhaps men who are more aware of what can be traced back to them). It doesn't make sense though that their DNA wasn't on it. Could they have used two, if so, why bother? Just take the used one with you and dump it. Could it have fallen out of one of their pockets or they forgot to take it with them when they left the scene. Still, why no DNA at all.

[QUOTE=gia2;11
I feel conscious of the feelings of the families about these intimate matters....don't wish to cause further pain.
However the first thing that occurred to me when I read about this was that a situation in which only the dna of the woman may be on a condom is if the woman was putting on or about to put a condom on a partner (which suggests consensual activity)when there was an interruption (perhaps by the attackers)which meant this did not lead to the next step?
That said I currently do not trust any "new evidence" emerging from thailand.

 

[dotr]

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

"Crime

Eleven British nationals have been murdered in Thailand since January 2009.

Western tourists have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by gangs in Koh Phangan. These attacks are particularly common around the time of the Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars in Haad Rin on Koh Phangan. In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin. Violent assaults and robberies have been reported in the Koh Samui archipelago. Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand including in Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi. Take care, especially at night.

There have been sexual assaults against foreign men and women, especially in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province. Tourists have also been robbed after bringing visitors to their hotel rooms. In some cases their drinks were drugged. Be careful about taking drinks from strangers and at clubs and parties, particularly in Koh Samui, Pattaya and at the Full Moon party on Koh Phangan, where date rapes have been reported."