Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - Officials Believe 12 Boys And Coach Trapped In Cave , 23 June 2018

[Elainera]

Yes, I re-read it also- sorry I didn't save the link.

Thank you enelram. Puzzled Why would they do that?

I just talked with hubby about this. He was almost getting angry, "They should take them out now! Take the strong ones at least out! What are they waiting for?" I agree with him. Why don't they start? Are even the strong ones too weak still?

 

[thesensitivechild]

Thank you all for the excellent coverage. Thinking about these kids. So scary.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I did wonder where all the water pumped out was going and if it could be a problem, but then I thought they know what they're doing.

 

[Bravo]

I wonder if officials have consulted with Family? Perhaps they are just leaving it to the experts.

 

[Elainera]

So, is it absolutely decided then, that there's definitely nothing like a diving sack/cocoon that they can be put in, and pulled through, in case the most narrow parts don't get fully pumped out?

Someone posted a proposal to send a hyperbaric stretcher on Twitter yesterday. Just now someone else posted about another kind of stretcher which has oxygen and everything but is not encased. All the divers need to do is pull that stretcher along with them, kid just lying still and breathes. I guess the concern is still the narrow passage(s)? AFAIK there's no official comment on these proposals though I would think that they discuss whether they can be used or not.

 

[Elainera]

"BANGKOK, 5th July 2018, (NNT) – According to the Deputy Government Spokesperson, the Prime Minister is pleased with the progress of the rescue operation to free the 12 boy footballers and their 25 year old coach, who remain deep inside Tham Luang cave in Mae Sai district of Chiang Rai."

PM pleased with progress of rescue operation | Thailand News

He must know more than us? And he doesn't seem worried.

 

[Elainera]

I wonder if officials have consulted with Family? Perhaps they are just leaving it to the experts.

Yea I think they will too. Unless giving pertinent personal information about their boy about whether he likes being in the water or is scared of it, or medical issues, etc.

 

[enelram]

So, is it absolutely decided then, that there's definitely nothing like a diving sack/cocoon that they can be put in, and pulled through, in case the most narrow parts don't get fully pumped out?

From what I'm reading this AM- diving them out using any means
is the last option considering the dangers.
Read somewhere that most Thai people do not swim and to them
diving underwater is a horrifying thing. In fact their word for
underwater diving is something like "black water".
This is why I believe they have changed their minds on diving them out. MOO, I believe they tested the kids and coach to see
if a crash course in diving could be accomplished and this did not go particularly well. IME, the older people are before they learn
to swim, hold breath underwater

Someone posted a proposal to send a hyperbaric stretcher on Twitter yesterday. Just now someone else posted about another kind of stretcher which has oxygen and everything but is not encased. All the divers need to do is pull that stretcher along with them, kid just lying still and breathes. I guess the concern is still the narrow passage(s)? AFAIK there's no official comment on these proposals though I would think that they discuss whether they can be used or not.

There are sections within the cave that are steep and need to be climbed up- think mountain/cliff climbing but underwater. and this adds to the difficulty of bringing the kids out. When Thai officials originally advertised on FB- seeking volunteer cave divers- they specifically mentioned only people experience in
underwater cave climbing experience- 45 deg. climbs for some
distance. It's much more technically challenging than we can even imagine.
this is why cave diving , in general, is a dangerous activity and every year people die diving caves, recreationally. It's not for the faint of heart.

 

[katydid23]

Someone posted a proposal to send a hyperbaric stretcher on Twitter yesterday. Just now someone else posted about another kind of stretcher which has oxygen and everything but is not encased. All the divers need to do is pull that stretcher along with them, kid just lying still and breathes. I guess the concern is still the narrow passage(s)? AFAIK there's no official comment on these proposals though I would think that they discuss whether they can be used or not.

I think the problem is that there is a large chamber that blocks the exit---and the water reaches ceiling level. So a stretcher could not just be pulled along---the child would need to be underwater for a long time, and would have to climb some high rocks to reach the exit....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Please could someone re-post the mapped images of the cave if they have them to hand, the ones that show the layout, passages and water levels? Much appreciated.

 

[thesensitivechild]

Earlier the dailymail (daily fail) had a headline saying authorities accidently pumped water back into the cave. I don’t see that headline any more so either it was bad reporting or true but made to be removed.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Im not panicking quite yet but I am getting a little more concerned lately as it seems to me the main decision maker is not decisive enough.

The bottom line is there are risks with every option. If they stay then the monsoons may flood the area they are at now. When we first saw the boys in that room the water was close and it didnt look like much room going up to the back of where they were at.

Unless they know for sure that area will never flood it is a risk to stay there as well too.

By now I would have thought they would at least take out the strongest and the ones who are most confident. With a professional diver in front of and one behind a boy I think it is very doable to take out the ones that are ready. So long as their practice showed they are ready and can handle it.

The one being rescued should not have to do too much except to be sure and breath and help to get through the small passages.

I suppose we need to keep the faith that they are going as fast as they can and maybe they know that area will never flood where they are at. I dont know how they could tell that but maybe there are marks on the walls that show them how far water has ever gone up the sides.

This link I found below shows a very similar incident involving young kids in a flooded cave and it didnt turn out well for everyone. It is depressing to read this article of a very similar incident. How they ended up in the situation is very similar to what happened in this case.

From the archives: Cave flood drowns 4, 3 missing

 

[Elainera]

"Chief of the Tham Luang rescue operation Narongsak Osotthanakorn said this morning that he might order the extraction of the survivors if the risks are acceptable even though they are not 100 percent physically fit.
Speaking at a daily press briefing, the former governor of Chiang Rai admitted there are major challenges in extracting the 13 survivors out of the flooded cave, saying that rescuers have to spend six hours to get to them and another five hours to extract them out one after another."
Governor says extraction plan may be executed if risks are acceptable | Thailand News

 

[*Verdigris]

From what I'm reading this AM- diving them out using any means
is the last option considering the dangers.
Read somewhere that most Thai people do not swim and to them
diving underwater is a horrifying thing. In fact their word for
underwater diving is something like "black water".
This is why I believe they have changed their minds on diving them out. MOO, I believe they tested the kids and coach to see
if a crash course in diving could be accomplished and this did not go particularly well. IME, the older people are before they learn
to swim, hold breath underwater

There are sections within the cave that are steep and need to be climbed up- think mountain/cliff climbing but underwater. and this adds to the difficulty of bringing the kids out. When Thai officials originally advertised on FB- seeking volunteer cave divers- they specifically mentioned only people experience in
underwater cave climbing experience- 45 deg. climbs for some
distance. It's much more technically challenging than we can even imagine.
this is why cave diving , in general, is a dangerous activity and every year people die diving caves, recreationally. It's not for the faint of heart.

Thank you very much. Although I kinda knew all that, and had read all the other articles, I guess I was just hoping something somehow had changed!
So, then, if they don't get them out before it rains again... they'll really just have to wait months until monsoon is over? Will the pumps be able to keep up with the rain, to ensure that their safe area won't flood?
This situation is even more precarious than Chile was.
I think they'll go batty having to stay there for months ...even just weeks.
Not to mention physical illness risks.
I know I'm just rehashing everything, but am really struggling to come to terms with the dreadful reality of it all, if they don't get them out by this weekend.

 

[WichitaFalls]

Thai cave rescue: Boys and coach not well enough to attempt escape
By Euan McKirdy and Kocha Olarn, CNN

Updated 11:18 AM ET, Thu July 5, 2018
Chiang Rai, Thailand (CNN)A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a cave in Northern Thailand has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday, according to a member of the Thai Navy SEALs who is not authorized to speak to the media. The SEALs have also started to pump oxygen into the chamber.
Thai cave rescue: Boys and coach not well enough to escape - CNN

 

[Elainera]

I think the problem is that there is a large chamber that blocks the exit---and the water reaches ceiling level. So a stretcher could not just be pulled along---the child would need to be underwater for a long time, and would have to climb some high rocks to reach the exit....

Oh that stretcher was made for underwater rescues specifically. Oxygen tank attached.

 

[Elainera]

Earlier the dailymail (daily fail) had a headline saying authorities accidently pumped water back into the cave. I don’t see that headline any more so either it was bad reporting or true but made to be removed.

It was volunteers, not the authorities. Someone posted the link upthread.

 

[thesensitivechild]

Question. How can they even bring enough supplies if they do remain in there? With the plans so up in the air I wonder if a dedicated attempt at consistently bringing supplies took place. Also how do they get said supplies to the group given the small passage ways and the large amount they must have for a group of more than 12. Finally, given the time we have heard it takes to get to them- six hours one way- how much can possibly be brought or have been brought? How do the divers carry such things? For me the constant darkness seems the psychological danger in all this.

 

[Hatfield]

Thai cave rescue: Boys and coach not well enough to attempt escape
By Euan McKirdy and Kocha Olarn, CNN



Updated 11:18 AM ET, Thu July 5, 2018

Chiang Rai, Thailand (CNN)A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a cave in Northern Thailand has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday, according to a member of the Thai Navy SEALs who is not authorized to speak to the media. The SEALs have also started to pump oxygen into the chamber.


Thai cave rescue: Boys and coach not well enough to escape - CNN

This sounds inconsistent to me. Too dangerous VS boys not well enough. Or do they mean its too dangerous because they are not well enough?

"Chiang Rai, Thailand (CNN)A medical assessment of the 12 boys and their football coach stuck in a cave in Northern Thailand has concluded that it is too dangerous to try to move the group out Thursday, according to a member of the Thai Navy SEALs"

Thai cave rescue: Boys and coach not well enough to escape - CNN

 

[Elainera]

Please could someone re-post the mapped images of the cave if they have them to hand, the ones that show the layout, passages and water levels? Much appreciated.

This article has some diagrams, no water levels though.

Thailand cave rescue: where were the boys found and how can they be rescued?