The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?

[nursebeeme]

Calliope, I have been told this thread is about hard physical evidence, so I am going to discuss my facts for the last time as that's apparently not what we are discussing here. I will agree that LE has not found any physical evidence--all their evidence is circumstantial.

But here is a quick MSM quote for my first fact:

"Houze said Terri agreed to move out, give up rights to custody, but the hearing will address financial and other issues. A date of September 21 was set aside for the contempt of court hearing." http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Hearing-today-for-Kyrons-father-asking-step-mom-Terri-to-leave-home-98606239.html There are more like this on many news sites.

The second fact I must change to: Dede was subpoenaed to testify in front of the GJ, was seen leaving courthouse, smirking, the day she was to testify, and her attorney told the media she did not testify.

The third fact remains. Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

But I know they are not hard physical evidence, which is what this thread about.

ITA with you. We know next to nothing... This hard physical evidence thread on TMH should be about two posts/two sentences long. We really do not know anything that they have on TMH.

 

[eyes4crime]

Hard evidence in a criminal investigation means to me:
DNA, blood, body fluids
Crime scene
Body
Motive
Means
Witness
Forensic electronic evidence - computer, phone records, camera pics

Innuendo, gossip, personal beliefs, speculation, hearsay, polygraphs, twisted logic, allegations, and emotion are just a few things being used as evidence right now. None of which can be used in a court of law. all just my opinions

 

[Billylee]

"I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...” http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html


The above email that Terri sent to someone on June 5, really pushed me off the fence. This comment, in writing, I think might just be the first thing that LE saw that turned their focus to TH........Whoa, wait a minute....What male chaperon? Who saw Kyron with a male chaperon and told Terri?

And I think that when they investigated this statement, they found there WAS NO ONE who saw Kyron with a male chaperon, and NO ONE came forward to tell them "oh yes, I told Terri that". At this point Terri just showed LE that she was trying to defend herself by lying.

There is (that I'm aware of anyway) absolutely no support for her statement. Police would have immediately been looking for a male chaperon if in fact this statement had been even remotely accurate. There would have been a sketch released of this person, etc. They would not be thinking that Kyron could have wandered off by himself, which they still were at the time.

IMO unless this statement made by TH can be somehow explained, it makes her appear as guilty as all get out in having something to do with Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Fact: LE hasn't leaked to the public, the facts that they have.

 

[STEADFAST]

Fact: LE hasn't leaked to the public, the facts that they have.

Exactly. LE has repeatedly said they will not specifically comment on any evidence in this case, so why would we think we know what evidence they do or do not have? It's pure speculation to suppose they do have lots of evidence or that they don't have lots of evidence. Oregon isn't Florida. The GJ will look at all the evidence so far, which is not just testimony but also lots of records of things and who knows what else, and then they'll decide whether there should be an indictment at that time. Even then we won't know until the trial what facts have been established unless LE comes out and tells us.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Exactly. LE has repeatedly said they will not specifically comment on any evidence in this case, so why would we think we know what evidence they do or do not have? It's pure speculation to suppose they do have lots of evidence or that they don't have lots of evidence. Oregon isn't Florida. The GJ will look at all the evidence so far, which is not just testimony but also lots of records of things and who knows what else, and then they'll decide whether there should be an indictment at that time. Even then we won't know until the trial what facts have been established unless LE comes out and tells us.

Oregon cant have the law Florida has, they would have to call it, Almost no sunshine, law.

 

[Calliope]

Calliope, I have been told this thread is about hard physical evidence, so I am going to discuss my facts for the last time as that's apparently not what we are discussing here. I will agree that LE has not found any physical evidence--all their evidence is circumstantial.

But here is a quick MSM quote for my first fact:

"Houze said Terri agreed to move out, give up rights to custody, but the hearing will address financial and other issues. A date of September 21 was set aside for the contempt of court hearing." http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Hearing-today-for-Kyrons-father-asking-step-mom-Terri-to-leave-home-98606239.html There are more like this on many news sites.

The second fact I must change to: Dede was subpoenaed to testify in front of the GJ, was seen leaving courthouse, smirking, the day she was to testify, and her attorney told the media she did not testify.

The third fact remains. Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

But I know they are not hard physical evidence, which is what this thread about.

bbm

sorry, but I doubt she's not denied her involvement to LE at the very least.

 

[lost.in.pdx]

Oregon cant have the law Florida has, they would have to call it, Almost no sunshine, law.

LOL - So true!

IMO we should be discussing the circumstantial evidence in this case... if it can be used in a trial, isn't that 'hard' enough evidence?

Fact: LE has named TH as the last person to see Kyron

Not a firm indication that she is guilty, but that is always the first place to look!

 

[jadejazzkayla]

The third fact remains. Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

Terri has denied being involved in kyron's disappearance as reported by the Multnomah County Sherrif's Office. Sherrif's quote is bolded.

News Release: Multnomah Co. Sheriff's Office Posted: June 5th 2010 9:06AM

Kyron's stepmother reports she last saw him at approximately 845 AM Friday, walking down the hallway towards his classroom.

 

[Jack]

LOL - So true!

IMO we should be discussing the circumstantial evidence in this case... if it can be used in a trial, isn't that 'hard' enough evidence?

Fact: LE has named TH as the last person to see Kyron

Not a firm indication that she is guilty, but that is always the first place to look!

Fact is TH can only be the last person to have seen Kyron if she is the person who disappeared him. The police do not have any evidence that TH is responsible and they have not been quoted as saying she was absolutely the last person to see Kyron. If I am mistaken about this please direct me to where I can read it.

 

[Jack]

"I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...” http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html


The above email that Terri sent to someone on June 5, really pushed me off the fence. This comment, in writing, I think might just be the first thing that LE saw that turned their focus to TH........Whoa, wait a minute....What male chaperon? Who saw Kyron with a male chaperon and told Terri?

And I think that when they investigated this statement, they found there WAS NO ONE who saw Kyron with a male chaperon, and NO ONE came forward to tell them "oh yes, I told Terri that". At this point Terri just showed LE that she was trying to defend herself by lying.

There is (that I'm aware of anyway) absolutely no support for her statement. Police would have immediately been looking for a male chaperon if in fact this statement had been even remotely accurate. There would have been a sketch released of this person, etc. They would not be thinking that Kyron could have wandered off by himself, which they still were at the time.

IMO unless this statement made by TH can be somehow explained, it makes her appear as guilty as all get out in having something to do with Kyron's disappearance.

IMO, TH must have been told by someone that he was seen with a male chaparone after she left. I'd look at who she says told her that and rule them out as a suspect before I thought that statement made her appear guilty. Also, no one saw Kyron leave the building but we know he did so just because no-one saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[BeanE]

Fact is TH can only be the last person to have seen Kyron if she is the person who disappeared him. The police do not have any evidence that TH is responsible and they have not been quoted as saying she was absolutely the last person to see Kyron. If I am mistaken about this please direct me to where I can read it.

Capt Gates said Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared.

Just pointing it out because it's been misreported all over the place - including in MSM. All the LE press conferences are listed in a thread in the Reference Forum, and that one I'm pretty sure was June 18, so we can check ourselves to get exactly what he said.

The 'known' and 'before he disappeared' are the important parts IMO.

Also of note is that after Gates said this, in a video interview, Kaine said that Terri was "one of the last" persons to see Kyron before he disappeared. I just noticed that the other day when I was hunting something down, and found it significant. I posted the link to the video in a couple different threads, but I'm happy to find it and post it if anyone would like it.

Now personally, I don't subscribe to the concept that LE lies to the public with any frequency, because LE has an obligation to uphold the public trust. Even without that obligation, it would be a pretty silly thing for them to do. However, I think at times - infrequently - they fudge on wording.

That is, I don't think they lie, but I do think they very carefully choose their words and wording so that they're not lying, but at the same time, they know that human beings are inherently poor listeners. And they exploit that.

I think Gates' statement may be one those instances, given various reports, previous LE statements, and Kaine's statement as noted. That is, 'known' could have several meanings in an LE/investigative sense.

 

[tarmancer]

This one is a hard one. I do not think LE has released much of the evidence they have. But I think they need & want more. If we could see what they have I think we would be surprised.

 

[tarmancer]

Oh I forgot. Kaine said recently he believes Terri is involved because he has seen the data and he is a data kind of guy.

 

[BeanE]

Oh I forgot. Kaine said recently he believes Terri is involved because he has seen the data and he is a data kind of guy.

I think this is the quote you're referring to. He doesn't say he's seen the data (I'm thinking in terms of records). The data seems to refer his perception of what LE has told him.

“Unless law enforcement comes to me and says all they’ve been telling me is wrong my opinion will not change," Horman said. "I’m a data person and the data gives me no reason to believe otherwise."

http://www.kptv.com/news/24706595/detail.html

 

[stmarysmead]

I think this is the quote you're referring to. He doesn't say he's seen the data (I'm thinking in terms of records). The data seems to refer his perception of what LE has told him.

“Unless law enforcement comes to me and says all they’ve been telling me is wrong my opinion will not change," Horman said. "I’m a data person and the data gives me no reason to believe otherwise."

http://www.kptv.com/news/24706595/detail.html

This is something I've been wondering about. Kaine seemed very loving and protective of Terri in that first press conference. As far as I recall, the big change came when the police briefed him on the alleged Murder-for-Hire."

Kaine does seem like a "data driven" guy. Would just an allegation...a "he-said/she-said"...with no supporting evidence be enough to turn him against his wife and file divorce papers? Take their baby from her Mother? Would some stranger's word be sufficient data?

In high profile cases, police must not be unaccustomed to people showing up with wild stories, false accusations, false confessions. Let's say this Landscaper offered this story of Terri trying to solicit murder to the police..BUT HAD NO FURTHER PROOF....would just HIS word be enough for them to set up a sting? Go to Kaine? And would just his word be enough for Kaine to essentially break up his family?

What about this Landscaper would make police and Kaine believe him over a seemingly loving wife, mother and step-mother?

This troubles me from two angles. Because if it is just a "he said/she said" and no supporting evidence, that's pretty weak to move forward upon...to cause all this to implode on Terri. I would hope both police and those we love, would give our word equal weight against an accusing stranger.

Secondly, to me, this is the big knitting needle that prodded me off the fence and knit together so many disparate parts of this case.

Unless, of course, the Landscaper has more than just a story. Has anyone read anything suggesting there was further evidence to support his allegation?

I'm assuming (only that) that there must be more. Whatever could it be?

 

[Calliope]

Terri has denied being involved in kyron's disappearance as reported by the Multnomah County Sherrif's Office. Sherrif's quote is bolded.

News Release: Multnomah Co. Sheriff's Office Posted: June 5th 2010 9:06AM

Kyron's stepmother reports she last saw him at approximately 845 AM Friday, walking down the hallway towards his classroom.

Well there ya go lol.

 

[Calliope]

LOL - So true!

IMO we should be discussing the circumstantial evidence in this case... if it can be used in a trial, isn't that 'hard' enough evidence?

Fact: LE has named TH as the last person to see Kyron

Not a firm indication that she is guilty, but that is always the first place to look!

I believe Gates said she was the last known person to see Kyron.

 

[SurfieTX]

This is something I've been wondering about. Kaine seemed very loving and protective of Terri in that first press conference. As far as I recall, the big change came when the police briefed him on the alleged Murder-for-Hire."

Kaine does seem like a "data driven" guy. Would just an allegation...a "he-said/she-said"...with no supporting evidence be enough to turn him against his wife and file divorce papers? Take their baby from her Mother? Would some stranger's word be sufficient data?

In high profile cases, police must not be unaccustomed to people showing up with wild stories, false accusations, false confessions. Let's say this Landscaper offered this story of Terri trying to solicit murder to the police..BUT HAD NO FURTHER PROOF....would just HIS word be enough for them to set up a sting? Go to Kaine? And would just his word be enough for Kaine to essentially break up his family?

What about this Landscaper would make police and Kaine believe him over a seemingly loving wife, mother and step-mother?

This troubles me from two angles. Because if it is just a "he said/she said" and no supporting evidence, that's pretty weak to move forward upon...to cause all this to implode on Terri. I would hope both police and those we love, would give our word equal weight against an accusing stranger.

Secondly, to me, this is the big knitting needle that prodded me off the fence and knit together so many disparate parts of this case.

Unless, of course, the Landscaper has more than just a story. Has anyone read anything suggesting there was further evidence to support his allegation?

I'm assuming (only that) that there must be more. Whatever could it be?

LE is quoted as saying that the texts to MC are similar to the texts to the landscaper. Therefore, one can conclude that there are text messages that infer the MFH and "sexual overtones."

 

[BeanE]

LE is quoted as saying that the texts to MC are similar to the texts to the landscaper. Therefore, one can conclude that there are text messages that infer the MFH and "sexual overtones."

No, LE has never said that publicly, and it has never been quoted. In a court document about the restraining order, Kaine's attorney wrote and alleged that LE told her that Terri's relationship concerns and sexual overtures to the landscaper resembled those she conveyed to Cook.

How those concerns and overtures were relayed to the landscaper is not stated, or even insinuated, in the document.

Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner.

PDF page 12, line 3

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/2/c/b2c0c26c-4221-4fde-a923-fa5788b1ad69/Horman.pdf