The Annie Muss posts

[Shelayne]

The Patricia letters have a lot of improper use of the semicolon. I will have to look at the AM posts and the RN again. People tend to repeat common grammatical errors.

 

[Shelayne]

I can't agree with this more. This is so sociopathic!

I *believe*, Shelayne, that someone in the BPD (Lou Smitt?) was enamored with the Ramseys and gave confidential information to Michael Tracy. It is conceivable that Mr. Tracy could have "passed on" these details to JM Karr. Therefore, he WOULD have evidence only the killer (and investigators) should know.

Well, I will have to agree to disagree about Lou Smit passing on confidential info to someone outside the case. I just don't believe a man with a long and distinguished career would do something so unethical. Yes, he believes strongly in the Ramseys innocence, but I do not think that necessarily makes him part of some conspiracy to clear the Ramseys, especially if it means feeding some delusional pedophile info about the case. This could not only damage his reputation, but could put him in prison.

But I don't want to turn this in to a RDI/IDI thread. The Patricia letters are very interesting and could yield information about the new suspect.

 

[Anita Richman]

Well, I will have to agree to disagree about Lou Smit passing on confidential info to someone outside the case. I just don't believe a man with a long and distinguished career would do something so unethical. Yes, he believes strongly in the Ramseys innocence, but I do not think that necessarily makes him part of some conspiracy to clear the Ramseys, especially if it means feeding some delusional pedophile info about the case. This could not only damage his reputation, but could put him in prison.

But I don't want to turn this in to a RDI/IDI thread. The Patricia letters are very interesting and could yield information about the new suspect.

I appreciate your honesty about your position and respect you so much for you that. (Regarding the line which I emphasized in bold, do you think disclosing confidential information could have occurred accidentally or unintentionally? Especially if he truly believed in the Ramsey's innocence, he could have unintentionally shared some details that he thought further proved their innocence to Michael Tracy, not necessarily John Mark Karr. I did not mean to besmirch anyone's reputation with my post, though I see now how it did.)

 

[Shelayne]

I appreciate your honesty about your position and respect you so much for you that.

Thank you. Even though I believe someone other than the Ramseys was involved, the bottom line is I want justice for JonBenet, not just what is expedient. (Expedient? Who am I kidding?)

Regarding the line which I emphasized in bold, do you think disclosing confidential information could have occurred accidentally or unintentionally? Especially if he truly believed in the Ramsey's innocence, he could have unintentionally shared some details that he thought further proved their innocence to Michael Tracy, not necessarily John Mark Karr.

I am not going to say that never happens in LE circles, as I am sure it probably does. I just seriously doubt it with regard to Lou Smit. He is a veteran in solving murder cases, and for him to leak info to a documentary filmmaker/journalist would have to be pretty careless. He would have to be very aware of what was/is priviledged information--info that is crucial to solving the case. I just don't see this man as being that careless. He wouldn't have the reputation he had before this case, if he had been that type of individual.

I did not mean to besmirch anyone's reputation with my post, though I see now how it did.)

No, no. I know a lot of people share the view that info had to have been leaked--if in fact JMK has this INSIDE info. I am saying that it very well could have come from the killer himself. And I am only human, so I could be wrong. I accept that is a definite possibility.

This case has so many twists and turns, and still a lot of info is yet unknown. Anything is a possibility.

 

[Anita Richman]

Thank you. Even though I believe someone other than the Ramseys was involved, the bottom line is I want justice for JonBenet, not just what is expedient. (Expedient? Who am I kidding?)
I am not going to say that never happens in LE circles, as I am sure it probably does. I just seriously doubt it with regard to Lou Smit. He is a veteran in solving murder cases, and for him to leak info to a documentary filmmaker/journalist would have to be pretty careless. He would have to be very aware of what was/is priviledged information--info that is crucial to solving the case. I just don't see this man as being that careless. He wouldn't have the reputation he had before this case, if he had been that type of individual.



No, no. I know a lot of people share the view that info had to have been leaked--if in fact JMK has this INSIDE info. I am saying that it very well could have come from the killer himself. And I am only human, so I could be wrong. I accept that is a definite possibility.

This case has so many twists and turns, and still a lot of info is yet unknown. Anything is a possibility.

"I want justice for JonBenet"--I know, I think we all do. (Except for those who would get their 15 minutes of fame or a big fat paycheck from this.) I agree that anything is a possibility in this case.

 

[Anita Richman]

Bump:chicken:

 

[Shelayne]

Bump :chicken: :chicken:

 

[magpie]

Bump :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

I was looking all over for this thread so I could get the Patricia letters link!

 

[magpie]

Has anybody else read this "Patricia letter"? It is the Statement that "Patricia" had begged Tracy and Carol McKinley to release to the press. In it he/she/it describes the manner in which the mysterious man stated JonBenet was killed. This person finally broke down and sent it to gsquared after saying it had been sent to Tracy. I haven't read gsquared's response yet. I imagine she was horrified.

Do you think this is John Mark Karr's sick mind or somebody else's???

Disclaimer: I do NOT believe Patsy Ramsey was the author.

http://jonbenet_ramsey.tripod.com/09-29-1999-03-23-44-FriendToGsquaredStatement.txt

 

[LaMer]

"I want justice for JonBenet"--I know, I think we all do. (Except for those who would get their 15 minutes of fame or a big fat paycheck from this.) I agree that anything is a possibility in this case.

Me too-even three Anita!

This thread is facinating! If the news gets slow, if a gag order comes , and all, I hope everyone takes the time to read this thread and follows the links.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Has anybody else read this "Patricia letter"? It is the Statement that "Patricia" had begged Tracy and Carol McKinley to release to the press. In it he/she/it describes the manner in which the mysterious man stated JonBenet was killed. This person finally broke down and sent it to gsquared after saying it had been sent to Tracy. I haven't read gsquared's response yet. I imagine she was horrified.

Do you think this is John Mark Karr's sick mind or somebody else's???

Disclaimer: I do NOT believe Patsy Ramsey was the author.

http://jonbenet_ramsey.tripod.com/09-29-1999-03-23-44-FriendToGsquaredStatement.txt

I believe the author of all of these letters is Karr. I don't think he is the killer. However, I do believe he believes he is the killer.

This letter, in particular, should be turned over to the DA.

 

[Shelayne]

YES! That is what I meant to write last night when I was so dead-dog tired! Karr--er--I mean "Patricia" gave "her" theory to Carol McKinley! Carol has it. "Patricia" was so very worried about Carol having this theory and NOT DOING ANYTHING with it! IT wanted to be PUBLISHED.

What if-what if-What IF IF this theory actually had details that really happened?? Did Carol turn this over? She's a reporter; somehow I am doubting that she did. I wonder if CAROL has made the Karr connection to these letters??

I mean WHAT IF he really knows something?

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Has anybody else read this "Patricia letter"? It is the Statement that "Patricia" had begged Tracy and Carol McKinley to release to the press. In it he/she/it describes the manner in which the mysterious man stated JonBenet was killed. This person finally broke down and sent it to gsquared after saying it had been sent to Tracy. I haven't read gsquared's response yet. I imagine she was horrified.

Do you think this is John Mark Karr's sick mind or somebody else's???

Disclaimer: I do NOT believe Patsy Ramsey was the author.

http://jonbenet_ramsey.tripod.com/09-29-1999-03-23-44-FriendToGsquaredStatement.txt

It sure sounds like Karr's mindset. So it's possible.

The descriptions of the events are not super detailed in some places, as he was in the "Wendy Tapes"...but sequences in the letter definitely jive with Karr's descriptions of how it went.

The letter clearly uses the Ramseys' official story that they carried a sleeping Jonbenet right from the car to bed...and that was konked out.
As we know, Burke contradicted their story.

We know Karr followed the same sequence for the actual murder as the letter...that he went too far with the "garrotte" accidently and then hit her on the head.

I can glean also that the letter is definitely fantasy like...especially the whole "doing things to her in the basement for possibly hours". In the letter, the other people in the house might as well not have been home, when ones goes by the air of the style.

It is strange to think that the letter claims the RN was written with the idea of pointing towards the Ramseys...when in fact the RN tries to point towards someone who knows them or someone who has been involved in John's business.

 

[MysteryAddict]

Has anybody else read this "Patricia letter"? It is the Statement that "Patricia" had begged Tracy and Carol McKinley to release to the press. In it he/she/it describes the manner in which the mysterious man stated JonBenet was killed. This person finally broke down and sent it to gsquared after saying it had been sent to Tracy. I haven't read gsquared's response yet. I imagine she was horrified.

Do you think this is John Mark Karr's sick mind or somebody else's???

Disclaimer: I do NOT believe Patsy Ramsey was the author.

http://jonbenet_ramsey.tripod.com/09-29-1999-03-23-44-FriendToGsquaredStatement.txt

I'm sure you know more about the "Patricia letters" than I,
but just reading this one, I could believe Patsy had written it.

Were the parents questioned as to whether they had received a letter from the killer describing the murder?

If no letter from the killer was ever produced - then this
is very strange indeed.

Maybe I'm just easily fooled, but I thought the writer
did a good job of sounding like a distraught Mother
whose child had been murdered.

 

[chiquita2]

I believe all these Patricia letters were written by Karr and this one is especially horrendous. I do hope the DA knows about these letters and is studying them. I am also beginning to believe he may have done it. Either he did it or he knows who did. But I am also beginning to they also have DNA pointing to Karr already.

 

[magpie]

I'm sure you know more about the "Patricia letters" than I,
but just reading this one, I could believe Patsy had written it.

Were the parents questioned as to whether they had received a letter from the killer describing the murder?

If no letter from the killer was ever produced - then this
is very strange indeed.

Maybe I'm just easily fooled, but I thought the writer
did a good job of sounding like a distraught Mother
whose child had been murdered.

Just to be clear, I don't claim to know all about the Patricia letters. I have only read ALL of the Patricia Letters in the past week or so. There are a lot of letters so it was quite a feat to read them all! I've still got a headache from it. :doh:

Gsquared would be the one here to answer your questions best. She was involved in it as she was the recipient of a great portion of the Patricia letters. I tip my hat to gsquared for being able to keep this correspondence going on for months as the mysterious author of these letters gave me the heebie jeebies. Plus it was emotionally draining to read them, so I can only imagine that corresponding with this letter writer in what she hoped was the safety of her own home must have been frightening at times.

I feel that you would have to read all or most of the Patricia letters in order to be able to put this one letter which I have cited above into context.

The entire list of Patricia letters written to Gsquared are found here : http://jonbenet_ramsey.tripod.com/GsquaredCollection1999.htm

There are several other recipients of the Patricia letters also. They can be found here by following the links at the bottom of the page: http://www.acandyrose.com/patricia1999phenomenon.htm

Get a big cup of coffee before you begin reading, you're going to need it! :crazy:

 

[magpie]

It sure sounds like Karr's mindset. So it's possible.

The descriptions of the events are not super detailed in some places, as he was in the "Wendy Tapes"...but sequences in the letter definitely jive with Karr's descriptions of how it went.

The letter clearly uses the Ramseys' official story that they carried a sleeping Jonbenet right from the car to bed...and that was konked out.
As we know, Burke contradicted their story.

We know Karr followed the same sequence for the actual murder as the letter...that he went too far with the "garrotte" accidently and then hit her on the head.

I can glean also that the letter is definitely fantasy like...especially the whole "doing things to her in the basement for possibly hours". In the letter, the other people in the house might as well not have been home, when ones goes by the air of the style.

It is strange to think that the letter claims the RN was written with the idea of pointing towards the Ramseys...when in fact the RN tries to point towards someone who knows them or someone who has been involved in John's business.

That was was struck me when I finally found this one letter. It sounded eerily like some of the things Karr has been talking about on the various tape recordings (like the Wendy Hutchins tapes) etc we have been seeing and hearing from him. If he didn't write this stuff, he must have read it and memorized it, IMO.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

That was was struck me when I finally found this one letter. It sounded eerily like some of the things Karr has been talking about on the various tape recordings (like the Wendy Hutchins tapes) etc we have been seeing and hearing from him. If he didn't write this stuff, he must have read it and memorized it, IMO.

If Karr didn't write the letters...he definitely worked them into his fantasy. He would have rather liked the idea of "Patsy" coming to appreciate how much Jonbenet's killer "loved" her".

The only part that does not mesh with Karr is that in the letter the killer plans out the murder for months, and stalks the family to study them. This suggests the killer actually lived in Boulder.
With Karr's fantasy, he appears to first see/meet Jonbenet at a party 3 days before the murder, and just decides to do it on the 25th (and happens to pull it off flawlessly).

In all, the Patricia letter that describes the sequence of the murder could have been written by anyone with knowledge of the case (it reveals nothing about the crime scene or murder that is secret..and the rest is creative license)...and is also a person who firmly believed the strangulation came first...and then the head blow.

 

[magpie]

If Karr didn't write the letters...he definitely worked them into his fantasy. He would have rather liked the idea of "Patsy" coming to appreciate how much Jonbenet's killer "loved" her".

The only part that does not mesh with Karr is that in the letter the killer plans out the murder for months, and stalks the family to study them. This suggests the killer actually lived in Boulder.
With Karr's fantasy, he appears to first see/meet Jonbenet at a party 3 days before the murder, and just decides to do it on the 25th (and happens to pull it off flawlessly).

In all, the Patricia letter that describes the sequence of the murder could have been written by anyone with knowledge of the case (it reveals nothing about the crime scene or murder that is secret..and the rest is creative license)...and is also a person who firmly believed the strangulation came first...and then the head blow.

Yes, and that is exactly how he decribed her death in the Wendy Hutchens audio tape too, first the erotic asphyxia (sp?) and then the head blow when he realized she wasn't breathing... IF he is the one who killed her.

I have been intending to match up the dates from the Patricia letters (beginning to end) and the timeframe of the Wendy Hutchens tapes but my darn ADD keeps getting in the way, forgetful me. I want to know which came first, or were both events going on simultateously?

About the stalking issue, I've been doing a little thinking about that. Perhaps if this was Karr, his stalking amounted to attending a pageant JBR was in or maybe just reading about her pageants. She did do some pageants in the Atlanta area so he very well could have gone to one or more of them. I'm sure his sick twisted mind exaggerated things alot, you know, anything to make his fantasy sound better not only to others but to himself. I think he was able to believe his fantasies were really true. Heck, the whole confession might very well turn out to be some amplified fantasy concocted in his sick mind. Then again, all or some of it might be true. Only time and evidence will tell the tale.

I totally agree that he desperately wanted Patsy to know him and approve of him and his so-called "love affair with JonBenet", whether it was only in his mind or a fantasy he really acted on. Those parts of the letters where Patricia talks so lovingly of her "mysterious man" really creeped me out and convinced me that it was a man behind those words, not a woman. At the time he was writing to Tracy these past 4 years, he was also writing to Patsy. Only thing was, those letters were rerouted and Patsy never saw them, law enforcement got them. Karr said to reporters that he thought Patsy had read them, or at least he hoped she had seen them he said. What a creep! :sick:

 

[Shelayne]

Those parts of the letters where Patricia talks so lovingly of her "mysterious man" really creeped me out and convinced me that it was a man behind those words, not a woman. At the time he was writing to Tracy these past 4 years, he was also writing to Patsy. Only thing was, those letters were rerouted and Patsy never saw them, law enforcement got them. Karr said to reporters that he thought Patsy had read them, or at least he hoped she had seen them he said. What a creep!

Yes, Magpie, it sounded like that to me, too. It sounded like a pedophile GLORIFYING pedophilia. It so creeped me out that I almost stopped reading them. But I couldn't. The entire time I was thinking, "This is Karr". I even mentioned it early in this thread. I became convinced when I saw some of his ramblings to Tracy.

It is from the same deranged head.

Thank the Lord Patsy was spared his bile.