The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[PositiveLight]

Nah, if he did what it looks more and more like he did, no one could "wipe" his memory like you can wipe a hard drive. It's true that sometimes a traumatic memory is not preserved in its entirety though. I will give an example from my own life. After my mother died, I had a terrible phobia of hearing sirens in the night. It would always throw me into anxiety, and I could never figure out why. This went on for years and years. I finally got over it. I was talking to my sister about it and she said, "Oh I know why you were scared. Don't you remember that Dad had to call an ambulance for Mom a couple of times?" I had NO memory of that at all, but as a young child, would have been scared to see my mom being taken away in an ambulance and connected that fear with the siren. I still cannot remember anything about my mom being taken away in an ambulance. (p.s. I must have been at least 8 or 9 years old since my mother died when I was 10.)

Agreed. I too have a phobia of hearing sirens and start calling my loved ones who live close to confirm they are alright. I panic until I know they are all fine. We all live only blocks apart so if I even barely hear one I start calling. I wake up to them at night in a panic. Totally feel you there! I have no idea why my paranoia over sirens effects me so much. Hopefully one day I too will figure out why. Thanks for that insight! You've got me thinking now.

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[carolinea]

They were in his bathroom sink. So unless he was spitting Crest all over them, they had both been left in there since the last time he brushed his teeth. My daughter always brushed at each meal, but even if he only brushed once a day, he had had 2 12 oz cans of soda on a day he spent most of visiting other people. If I give a child under 10 a soda, it is generally uncaffeinated, and only one a day max.

Simple explanation: he'd left the half-full cans sitting around the room and he (or one of his parents) put them in the sink to empty prior to recycling (or throwing away).

 

[Tortoise]

The smothering in case they weren't sure if she was dead perhaps? I think from what i have read JBR died from asphyxiation due to strangulation associated with the head injury. So the head injury came first then the strangulation which killed her.
And what i find unbelievable is how evil those people were, IMO.

You're right the autopsy listed cause of death as strangulation associated with head injury.

What JR asked in his interview was as close to getting a confession as we'll ever get. I would convict on that one piece of evidence.

He thought JB had died from the head wound, so he didn't think he'd killed her by strangling her, he thought he was staging a murder scene.
The autopsy comes back saying strangulation was a cause of death, combined with the head injury.
He needs to know now if he actually killed her, and if she wasn't already dead before that. It's eating him alive.
He asks if it could be that she was already dead before she was strangled - querying the ME's competency basically - and he asks it when it isn't even relevant to the question he has been asked, which was where in the house do you think this took place. He's that desperate to know he misdirects the question so it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[carolinea]

The smothering in case they weren't sure if she was dead perhaps? I think from what i have read JBR died from asphyxiation due to strangulation associated with the head injury. So the head injury came first then the strangulation which killed her.
And what i find unbelievable is how evil those people were, IMO.

One theory is they thought she was dead and didn't realize they were actually strangling her while staging the coverup.

I tend to think Burke used the garrote and that's one of the reasons WHY they needed to cover it up.

 

[Karinna]

The Ramseys were total slobs when they weren't pretending to be perfect, high society folk. If Burke had friends in his bedroom on Christmas day and tossed them in there, I doubt anyone would notice or care enough to remove them. He may never have brushed his teeth that night. I probably wouldn't read anything into it.

I think it was more than being total slobs actually. If there were problems with the children the responsibility for that falls back onto the parents shoulders. No one else can be blamed if the children live a dysfunctional life. As parents it is our job to intervene and set boundaries, and get help for a child when necessary. That situation was out of control IMO. Who really is to blame?

 

[Karinna]

One theory is they thought she was dead and didn't realize they were actually strangling her while staging the coverup.

I tend to think Burke used the garrote and that's one of the reasons WHY they needed to cover it up.

But weren't PR's fibres from her jacket found on the duct tape and garotte? That implicates her for that not BR?

 

[PositiveLight]

The RN specifically said they were being monitored in case they got the money early, but that JBR would be BEHEADED if they called anyone. I would have expected them to be very low-key in contacting anyone. If they believed the note, they would have known it was too late to get the money ("and hence" JonBenet) once police had arrived (as it would cause the small foreign faction to kill her immediately). Sending someone else to get the money would also show that they had contacted people. If you were told NOT to contact anyone and that you WERE being watched, wouldn't you try to keep the police and your friends away from the house (even if you called them)? You could have an officer meet you at the bank or something rather than risk your daughter's life.

That's what tells me personally, that it was an inside job. If it was an intruder, how in the heck did they get the body back into the house when so many people were there? If it was a "foreign faction", and they had been watching them and they had killed her, they'd just dump her body somewhere. They definitely wouldn't leave her body in the house a long with the ransom note. It's almost absurd to even think about honestly.

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[PositiveLight]

Well Burke, if you're "listening carefully", I'm available to be your PR man. We'll tour the world blaming mommy, daddy and Lin Wood's for the cover-up. And build a whole new image for you. The brilliant eccentric computer geek that had a few issues when he was young because of - well it's always the mother's fault! You can explain how years of therapy repaired the damage done by a superficially perfectionist mother and absentee father. Why sweat over code when you can make bundles at speaking engagements. You can be the poster boy for the need for better youth mental health care in America - and this will be a fine way to honor the memory of JonBenet.

Hahahaha at the first line!!! You would be an excellent PR person for him! I think you did better in this post selling yourself to BR than PR did in the ransom note! [emoji23] hopefully he's 'listening carefully'.
I still think of mommy dearest when I think of PR. "No more wire coat hangers!!"


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[Karinna]

(quote)
Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682497/Patsy Ramsey

 

[FinallyRegistered]

It never occurred to me until someone posted yesterday that the garrote could have been something completely different---used to secure a large box or Christmas tree branches----and, just was conveniently down there in the basement.

RSBM

Yes, I think it was a toggle knot rather than a garrote (which has two handles). It was probably found already in the basement as a way to secure the large boxes for the trees.

Google "toggle knot" or "toggle rope" to see many, many examples and the uses for them.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

They were in his bathroom sink. So unless he was spitting Crest all over them, they had both been left in there since the last time he brushed his teeth. My daughter always brushed at each meal, but even if he only brushed once a day, he had had 2 12 oz cans of soda on a day he spent most of visiting other people. If I give a child under 10 a soda, it is generally uncaffeinated, and only one a day max.

But if FW/JR were in there helping BR grab his Nintendo, pack a few things for the day, change clothes, and make the bed, FW/JR could've emptied them in the sink. Those cans could've been in his bedroom for days, FW/JR saw them while making the bed, and dumped them in the sink to keep ants from finding them. Just a thought ...

 

[Karinna]

You're right the autopsy listed cause of death as strangulation associated with head injury.

What JR asked in his interview was as close to getting a confession as we'll ever get. I would convict on that one piece of evidence.

He thought JB had died from the head wound, so he didn't think he'd killed her by strangling her, he thought he was staging a murder scene.
The autopsy comes back saying strangulation was a cause of death, combined with the head injury.
He needs to know now if he actually killed her, and if she wasn't already dead before that. It's eating him alive.
He asks if it could be that she was already dead before she was strangled - querying the ME's competency basically - and he asks it when it isn't even relevant to the question he has been asked, which was where in the house do you think this took place. He's that desperate to know he misdirects the question so it sticks out like a sore thumb.

That's shocking if that's what happened.

 

[Sparko96]

And some of the wording in the note...what teenager says 'attaché'?

Here is where I imagine it was a word JR used. It has an air of self importance. Families start to speak with similar affect.


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[CoreyRocks]

I read something here yesterday I did not hear before and now I cannot find it to quote ... so much info.

Anyway someone (sorry don't remember who) said Burke patted Jonbenet ' s casket.

What is that about does anyone know about this? Thanks in advance.

 

[doubtingthomas]

This may have already been posted but I found it an interesting read: Testimony from housekeeper.

http://www.rense.com/general11/benet.htm

 

[Sunshine4Me]

I had read somewhere on here, and forgive me I don't remember which thread it was in or who posted it, but someone had thought that perhaps Patsy had found Jonbenet and tried to untie the garrote and either couldn't get the knot completely undone and retied it, or stopped because she realized she may leave fingerprints or such on it. It made sense to me that if Burke did garrote her and Patsy found her that she would try to get it off her, to me that would be my first reaction, to get that horrible thing off her, assuming she knew who did it and there was no reason to keep the crime scene pristine for law enforcement to inspect. It could explain why her fibers were inside the knot. Or perhaps after Patsy tried to remove it she decided she had no way to explain the injury and had to leave it like it was. This is assuming Burke did the garroting, which I'm still unsure of but I feel that he very well could have.

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[fedfan4life]

Personally I have a great deal of empathy for Burke. I see him as a scared, hurt, confused, frustrated, and angry boy who didn't get the support he so desperately needed. But that doesn't make me any less objective to this case. I don't think seeing Burke as a human being, means that one is being blinded to what he was capable of

Humanizing Burke Ramsey is one thing, which is what you are doing. But, Mr. Brendon is identifying with him and, as a result, cannot seem to be unbiased.

 

[fedfan4life]

Who on earth chokes a little girl with a freakin garotte FGS? I don't think i have ever heard of such an evil thing before when a child is murdered? I know some poor murder victims are strangled, but not garroted. She was just a tiny little girl. Why would someone even dream up such a thing? I think out of this whole case that stands out the most to me. It's just horrific really.

Unfortunately, another child. At least, that seems the most likely.

 

[PositiveLight]

HIS fingerprints were on the damn bowl- as well as the glass with Tea. Only HIS were on the glass. If Patsy's were on the bowl because she unloaded the dishwasher (GMAB- Patsy didn't do a damn thing to clean up her own house EXCEPT change wet bed sheets because she HAD TO), then why weren't Patsy's on the glass as well?

She didn't wrap her own gifts either- FAO Shwartz did and whatever other store she bought gifts from.

Burkes prints and Patsy's prints on the bowl but not JonBenet's tells the story and their LIES about it confirm it to me. MOO

Amen! Totally agree!
(GMAB- what does that stand for? Just curious)

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[fedfan4life]

Amen! Totally agree!
(GMAB- what does that stand for? Just curious)

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