The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[No it's not]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't think it's odd that they allowed the kids to have a soda.

Christmas day and Burke had a new Nintendo in his bedroom. The neighbor kids came over. His bathroom was one of 5 full bathrooms in the house and there were 3 half baths. What part of having 2 soda cans in his sink is odd? I know the storyline and the idea that they were put there after hours, but they could have been in the sink from earlier that day.

You know when I read this, something popped into my head. When I find a can of soda half empty, I tend to flip it over in the sink to let it empty before placing it in the trashcan so that it doesn't spill in the trashcan and make a mess. I wonder if this is why they were in the sink? Maybe someone forgot to go back and toss them after they drained? No telling how long they were there either considering the housekeeper hadn't been in a few days.
IIRC, the housekeeper spent most of her time picking up after the kids and even Patsy's mama made the comment to Patsy that the housekeeper should be there to clean the home not run after the kids picking up after them. That she couldn't do her job because the kids were allowed to be so messy.
Just wanted to throw that out there. Personally, my kids drank soda and ate candy near bedtime and usually slept fine. Caffeine never seemed to bother them much. I myself drink hot tea around the clock and still fall asleep when I'm tired. Tea is my coffee. BUT I was raised drinking tea like that. Maybe if it's something that is a constant in ones life, it doesn't have the same effect as people who only drink it occasionally?

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[flgrl017]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

I would say yes, but I know when I get out of bed in the morning my side looks unslept in and my husbands looks like that. He just messes up the covers more.

 

[ukrberserker23]

For those who can't visualize a child doing something like this to another child, watch the 2007 movie " The Girl Next Door". Based on the true case of Sylvia Likens . One adult and several teen boys tortured and killed her.

 

[flgrl017]

Regarding th pineapple bowl: If the housekeeper took it out of the dishwasher, wouldn't her prints be on it too?

When was the last time then housekeeper worked before christmas? Even if the housekeeper normally did the dishes, Pr may have ran the dishwasher herself over the holidays. Christmas at my house means a lot of extra dishes.

 

[YouWho]

I seem to be constantly at least 20 pages behind in reading so I'm just going to throw this thought out there. Is it possible a therapist or hypnotist could have a wiped out Burkes memory of what he might have done Christmas night. Could he be getting little breakthroughs and that's why on the Dr. Phil show he said he went back downstairs that night? And that that taunting "maybe" response when asked about the pineapple. So opposite of his years earlier response of not even recognising pineapple in the bowl when being interviewed.

Well, in BR's Dr. Phil interview, while disputing a comment about what actually happened that night, he did state something to the effect that 'unless someone erased' his memories, it didn't happen that way. That comment stood out for sure.

 

[dizzychick]

And the family circled the wagons. I agree with the GJ here; all had some culpability. I would like Burke to come clean--maybe there is a teaching moment for families with dysfunction.


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aint gonna happen, but I wish that too just for closure, he has had 20 years training in how not to rat himself out

 

[Linda7NJ]

The CBS documentary laid out the bones of the Grand Jury path for indictment and so many people missed it. The story was in the subtle suggestions of Lee and Spitz. No they were not going to come out and make sexual abuse accusations against anyone on National TV but if you know your stuff, you sure no what was implied by cover up. The subtle documentary even gave away the one piece of evidence that may have stopped JR and PR from being prosecuted.

I am reading post saying " why all the elaborate staging for an accidental killing " or " Murder 1, how were they ever gonna prove that and BR cant be charged anyways ".

You missed the point.....this was never about covering up an accidental death, it was about covering up long term sexual and physical abuse.

The Murder 1 charges were not for BR.....they were levied at JR and PR.

Watch the documentry again, become familiar with the work of Lee and Spits from the beginning of this case, get a copy of the ME report and a copy of the McCann, Wecht, Spitz ect....findings on the sexual abuse and a minimal amount of research on Colorado law and you will see the bulk of the case presented to the grand jury. The subtle things that were not said for legal reasons are the most important. Note things like what the pineapple represents....It makes BR the last known person to see JBR alive. Note Henry Lee's reference to the condition of the pineapple in the small intestine....it establishes time of death.

If you follow the path laid out in the show...and apply the listed material you will fill in every charge listed on the Grand Jury charges. You will have both causes of death listed in the autopsy, and you will see the one piece of evidence Henry needed for this case to be prosecuted.

Here is the sequence...JBR last known alive with BR at breakfast bar between 10:45 and 11:20...BR hits JBR in head with blunt object causing unconsciousness ( brain dead but hearth still beating )(Knowingly placing a child in an abusive situation leading to death). JR and PR find body and staging begins as JR knows ME is sure gonna notice signs of sexual abuse. What better way to cover-up sexual abuse then to try and stage it happened from and intruder. JR or PR apply garrote killing JBR and now we have death by asphyxiation and also pre-meditated( murder 1). sexual abuse is staged with paintbrush causing small particles to be found in JBR vagina. ( see McCann report on acute vs. chronic sexual abuse found ).

Seasoned vets on here can apply what they know about each item used in the cover up and almost tell who staged what. IE...Duct tape....PR fibers. Panties....JR fibers. This case wasn't prosecuted for many political reasons. However, if you note that both JR and PR are charged with Murder 1 you understand that there is yet to be a determination which one applied the garrote and this is prolly the excuse to not prosecuting them as murder is a specific charge. cant just go into court and say " one of them did it". This is why Henry refers to testing the knot in the garrote 4 times in the show as the " most important piece of evidence" you find which ones DNA in the knot, you have your killer.

also note the charges seem to reflect that BR was the one who was abusing JBR and JR and PR had knowledge of this.

The references to the golf club incident and the smearing of the fecal matter were mentioned in the show as subtle demonstrations of BR mental state and reflect history of abusing JBR.

Agree except I believe it was Burke that used that paintbrush handle - patsy & John attempted to "covered up" that part.


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[Heymom]

I read something here yesterday I did not hear before and now I cannot find it to quote ... so much info.

Anyway someone (sorry don't remember who) said Burke patted Jonbenet ' s casket.

What is that about does anyone know about this? Thanks in advance.

At JonBenet's funeral, Burke showed no signs of distress or sadness. He did not cry, did not look visibly sad, or anything appropriate to a funeral. You can see clips of his behavior on Youtube. Before her casket was lowered into the ground, he left off what he was doing with his friend, went over to her casket, patted it a couple of times, and then went off with his friend, skipping through the cemetery. He was largely untroubled by what had just taken place.

Which then begs the question...Since according to his parents, he'd been asleep the entire night and never woke up, before they woke him up to go with Fleet White, and did not display ANY emotions appropriate to the violent murder of his only full sibling, WHY DID HE NEED THERAPY for 2 years or so after the murder??? What were they treating???

 

[RL2]

Here is where I imagine it was a word JR used. It has an air of self importance. Families start to speak with similar affect.


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PR's favorite book The Prime of Jean Brodie, on which she based her dramatic monologue "The Kiss of Death" (which won her a talent scholarship in Miss America) used the word "atrache' ". Patsy was a journalism major, that RN is allllllll PR ...

 

[RL2]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

Yes. That is John's side (per his police interview 4 months after the murder)

JR's side is left side of bed the "north side"

 

[dizzychick]

But that doesn't make sense. BR murders JB, then PR wakes up and says "I better write a fake ransom note"?

Unless.....they were in it together and planned the whole thing! Perhaps they tried to frame JR too. That would explain how they manipulated Arndt to ask JR to search again.

something happened that night. I wondered if Burke got the pineapple and went upstairs to wake JB using the pineapple as bait, then did whatever he did to her which woke the parents and found she was too far gone to save so they finished her off as opposed to calling cops and having BR go to jail and them left caring for a head injury patient.

 

[Heymom]

something happened that night. I wondered if Burke got the pineapple and went upstairs to wake JB using the pineapple as bait, then did whatever he did to her which woke the parents and found she was too far gone to save so they finished her off as opposed to calling cops and having BR go to jail and them left caring for a head injury patient.

I know it's hard to accept, but I think Burke did both the head bash and the cord-strangling. If JR and/or PR had found JBR still breathing, they would have called an ambulance, since they didn't know how bad her head wound actually was (no one did until her autopsy). If there had been any hope that she could recover, they wouldn't have killed her. Think about it for a few minutes. But an angry sibling, who may have a very devious nature, could have done that once he realized she was already unconscious and not responding. Maybe he did stuff he wanted to do to her anyway but she'd always been able to fight him off...like the paintbrush and the strangling cord (it was not a garrotte, that was terminology inserted to make it seem like an intruder with sophisticated knowledge of killing techniques had done the crime).

But when they found JonBenet already dead (before midnight on 12/25, thus her tombstone) they decided to try and hide the previous sexual abuse and the murder itself. Both parents would stand by Burke (or the parent who'd done the sexual abuse would force everyone to cover it up).

 

[Linda7NJ]

You'd be surprised it's possible to have an incredible gift at remembering words and speech you over hear from other people and then using the words later when you see fit. I know 3 years olds that use the words coincidence and non-negotiable.....so I'm pretty sure a 9 yr old can handle the vocabulary in that note.

It's not the vocabulary that convinces me Burke didn't write it. There's zero evidence Burke was a prolific writer. Any kid that would write a three page piece of fiction would have written previously.


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[dizzychick]

I know it's hard to accept, but I think Burke did both the head bash and the cord-strangling. If JR and/or PR had found JBR still breathing, they would have called an ambulance, since they didn't know how bad her head wound actually was (no one did until her autopsy). If there had been any hope that she could recover, they wouldn't have killed her. Think about it for a few minutes. But an angry sibling, who may have a very devious nature, could have done that once he realized she was already unconscious and not responding. Maybe he did stuff he wanted to do to her anyway but she'd always been able to fight him off...like the paintbrush and the strangling cord (it was not a garrotte, that was terminology inserted to make it seem like an intruder with sophisticated knowledge of killing techniques had done the crime).

But when they found JonBenet already dead (before midnight on 12/25, thus her tombstone) they decided to try and hide the previous sexual abuse and the murder itself. Both parents would stand by Burke (or the parent who'd done the sexual abuse would force everyone to cover it up).

maybe he wrote a note and they re-wrote it to look like an adult had done it. We will never know IMo aint no way Burke will tell. maybe he will confide in someone one day but I highly doubt it, one thing I think he does do is read and maybe even post here !

 

[dalsglen]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

I wonder what side they each belonged to? I presume patsy on the left, john on the right. Left hand side looks awful neat, but then the way the duvet is folded over from the right hand side is awfully neat too. Was JR not awoken by PR's hysteria?

 

[Linda7NJ]

And some of the wording in the note...what teenager says 'attaché'?

Any child whose parent carries one.


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[Heymom]

Any child whose parent carries one.


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The common term in the US is "briefcase."

 

[Linda7NJ]

The common term in the US is "briefcase."

Wasn't commonly called a "briefcase" in my house growing up. and I'm pretty darn "common" [emoji41]


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[HarmonyE.]

I wonder what side they each belonged to? I presume patsy on the left, john on the right. Left hand side looks awful neat, but then the way the duvet is folded over from the right hand side is awfully neat too. Was JR not awoken by PR's hysteria?

What John knew and when he knew it is a mystery. The jacket fibers and the note point to Patsy, but nothing specifically points to John. Still, I find it hard to believe that he wasn't advised by Patsy of the goings-on long before the 911 call was placed.