The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

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At times it sort of looked like two different plans morphed into one.

Yes! We see this in almost every aspect of the crime and much of the evidence. I've always thought this was intentionally done to confound the investigation and cover all the bases, miring the case just enough so that the Ramseys could never be successfully prosecuted even if their guilt was obvious. Perhaps it wasn't intentional. Either way, wealth and luck played a significant role here, more than I think the Ramseys and their legal team anticipated.
 
Awesome post! Re "Duping delight" - this is the first time I am hearing the phrase yet it describes precisely what I observed during BR's interviews and attempted to express in a previous post It seems to me that this is a game he is enjoying immensely While I see socially awkward behavior, he doesn't appear to be anxious but rather insolent and haughty. In many of his answers he came across as a smart alec (sp?) My opinion only

oh yeah.he was definitely playing games especially when talking about the " LACK" of evidence.

To me it aeemed something like HeHe prove it if you can Hehe
 
I have a problem with it being an inside job. I just can't write that script once Burke hits Jonbenet, and the parents find her. Let's look at that. They find Burke has hit her, her eyes are rolling and she is brain dead. So Mum or Dad goes out and ties a rope around her neck and finishes the job. And Mum goes off to write the ransom note. About 6/7 hours later they ring the police. They have not slept. For then next decade, not one of them, no matter the pressure bought to bear, confesses. Surely after all that time, one of them would have turned on the the other two. If the cover up was the mother's idea, the father would eventually break down, and vice versa. The boy would be much more traumatized if he did it and lived through all that. Unless he had a major personality disorder - which has never come out. Being awkward and shy is hardly the same as being a psychopath.

The mother finds her dying daughter and garrotes her to cover up an accident?!

If such a thing happened, the parents would be in hysterics, trying mouth to mouth (DNA), calling for help. The boy would be totally traumatized by the consequenses of what he did, and his parents reactions. The parents would convince themselves it was an accident as they explained what happened to the police. This approximations sort of rings true. The cover-up script makes no sense regarding basic human nature.

Sorry, I'm way behind on this thread. What if they didn't "finish the job" -- what if they just staged it to suit what he did to her. Yes 6/7 hours later they ring the police and they have not slept. They have been dealing with Burke, cleaning/staging this crime scene, writing this ransom note, and doing plenty of crying and grieving. Guessing and second-guessing how to cover all this up. Why would they confess? They are paying a lawyer to (successfully) help them get away with it. The parents aren't going to break down because they are protecting their (Now) only child. and Yes he does have a major personality disorder and I don't believe that he is just awkward and shy. I don't think PR did the garrot either. They had several hours to try to help her or save her, but she was beyond that when they found her and they had several hours to go through hysteria and crying.
 
I suppose I can't get past the "scatology" of the case :( And Jon Benet's box of Christmas chocolate having feces spred onto it. Who does this type of thing besides sick, angry people. Very sick, very angry.
She would not have done this to her own gift. Someone jealous of her would have.

In the CBS special, they brought up that the housekeeper also told police that the brother once spread feces on the bathroom walls. Can you imagine her having to clean that up?

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Scatalogical
 
A lawsuit would open witnesses up to perjury.......might be a good thing..............JMO Finally get Burke under oath, for one.

Has anyone asked him what he plans to sue them for? They provided the standard disclaimers. It's a personal opinion. Maybe someone should offer him a pocket constitution and have him read the first amendment. I don't see the Boulder PD threatening to sue Dr. Phil for the things he said about them.
 
Seems like anyone in this family would care about Jonbenet??????
With JBR dead, and it being something that happened inside the family, what else could anyone do (other than tell the world that so&so killed JBR)? There's no bringing JBR back. IF it was BR who inflicted the head wound, what exactly should the older kids, kids who were grown and gone from the home, have done? Other than "forgiveness" what can one do?
 
When did Br ask if they found the body? He says this to the lady that was interviewing him. Were they even looking for a body at that point....

Also he lied about sleeping in the interviews. He admitted to Dr Phil he got up.
 
Have you heard of any problems with Burke? He's got University education, a job, place to live, and has managed to stay clear of the law for 20 years. You may not like his F-ed up smile but he's doing better that 90% of kids in America right now.

Typical psychopath. imo
 
With JBR dead, and it being something that happened inside the family, what else could anyone do (other than tell the world that so&so killed JBR)? There's no bringing JBR back. IF it was BR who inflicted the head wound, what exactly should the older kids, kids who were grown and gone from the home, have done? Other than "forgiveness" what can one do?

Right. I am wondering if they know. Like, did JR tell them, or did they figure it out on their own suspicions? If BR did do it and the other kids know/knew it, it must be a major burden to bear. They had already lost one sister before Jonbenet, would they not advocate for BR to get help, for J&P to quit lying, etc ??
 
I think BR is being given too much credit for some level of sophistication as a nearly 10 yr old child. BR acted out, not in sophisticated ways, but in primal ways. Smearing feces, hitting his sister. These are regression type behaviors. Now people have him fastening a garrote? That I don't believe. The simplest answer is BR hit her over the head and the more sophisticated type stuff was staging. Remember it was fibers from PR's Xmas sweater in the garrote and found on the duck tape covering JB's mouth.

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I didn't mean the garotte, I specifically meant the cord around the neck of the doll, the doll that JonBenet wasn't happy to receive.

If a brother who doesn't specifically like his sister is looking to upset her he might decide to tease her about it. He might say hey, I have this cool idea, let's put those same clothes on you (whatever Patsy has chosen for the doll to be dressed in, say the red turtleneck sweater she wanted her to wear on Christmas Day), and let's make you really look like the doll and add the same detail like the cord around the neck. Then knot it so tight his sister is choking.

Later the sweater gets removed by PR and thrown in the bathroom, but the knot can't be undone and a garotte is added to the string just for theatre/staging, it's not used in the strangulation.

It's not a full blown theory because it doesn't account for the head blow but that could be worked in somehow with a bit more thought. I do think the link between the cord on the doll and the cord on JonBenet is so striking it means something.
 
It does seem like some time had to pass from grabbing the pineapple to the hit in the head. It wasn't found in her mouth.

I'm thinking the CBS theory was reckless - the Ramsey's may have a very good case for a lawsuit.

How quickly can you swallow a piece of pineapple. Less than one second. Probably less time then for it to take BR to grab the flashlight then hit her over the head. CBS show was world renowned experts. It was well planned out. These folks nailed it. I now believe JBR grabbed a piece of pineapple causing BR to knock her in the head with the flashlight. I'm certain he wasn't intending to kill her though. But the parents realized she is dead and the rest is the cover up. It's the most plausible theory to fit the evidence.


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I think that originally, the body was hidden behind some junk in the WC and when no one found it, JR went down to move it to where it would be more visible, thus when he opened the door with the lights out, he 'found' it, when FW who looked in there just hours before, had seen no such thing. JR didn't know FW had looked in the WC that day.

I think FW was giving JR the benefit of doubt for a while but then could not reconcile what he knew with what happened on the second trip to the basement.

Or hidden in the crawl space at first.
 
I'd love to know what kind of girlfriend he has. Replacement for JBR? I can very much see him dating a 'replica'. And would love to know what she thinks of all this now.

Not sure if it's Burke's FB or someone else's, but I saw a photo of Burke with a very attractive blonde. Dr. Phil mentioned that Burke is in a relationship with a nice young woman, but I don't know if it's the same girl in the photo.
 
Maybe you misunderstood my post. I didn't mean the garotte, I specifically meant the cord around the neck of the doll, the doll that JonBenet wasn't happy to receive.

If a brother who doesn't specifically like his sister is looking to upset her he might decide to tease her about it. He might say hey, I have this cool idea, let's put those same clothes on you (whatever Patsy has chosen for the doll to be dressed in, say the red turtleneck sweater she wanted her to wear on Christmas Day), and let's make you really look like the doll and add the same detail like the cord around the neck. Then knot it so tight his sister is choking.

Later the sweater gets removed by PR and thrown in the bathroom, but the knot can't be undone and a garotte is added to the string just for theatre/staging, it's not used in the strangulation.

It's not a full blown theory because it doesn't account for the head blow but that could be worked in somehow with a bit more thought. I do think the link between the cord on the doll and the cord on JonBenet is so striking it means something.

I CAN totally see two siblings doing this to tease their parents, but I see this as more teenager type of humour and behaviour. This kind of joking around with mom and dad, I mean this specific type, is more mature than nine years and six years.

Personally I am leaning towards that (aside from the head injury) Burke attempted to strangle her with something... his hands? A rope? Her clothes? I believe he was probably having the temper tantrum to end all temper tantrums. I believe he has hurt her in the past, though the golf club is all we have to go on as fact - and he said it was an accident. People can say whatever they want, but we can't really prove it either way. Whatever he did it must have been bad enough that the parents knew not only was their daughter beyond saving but it looked so bad that Burke would be in trouble (or John or Patsy).

The only thing that really makes sense for JR and PR to do this coverup as well is a history of it. They must have had reason to suspect the police would be all over them, and it must have been a guilty sensation from knowing they were keeping secrets inside that house involving abuse - whether sexual or not, whether sibling or parental or both... they had a guilty conscience.
 
Well, I'm going to make sure our Maglite flashlight is kept wellllll out of the reach of our kids....
 
Whatever else one comes away with after last night's final segment on CBS or the DP shows, Burke Ramsey has come across as an odd duck. Odd as a kid and odd as an adult.

He sneaked downstairs, alone, in the dark, after everyone else was in bed. Sorry, this is odd. Most kids get creeped-out in darkened houses at night and do not wander around, but Burke had no natural fear of even going into the basement alone in the dark. This is abnormal.

He had HiTech hiking boots. "I was always in the basement, what does that print prove?" eew He was defending the boot print which was at one time a major bit of evidence in Lou Smit's intruder theory. I guess Lou was never told that he had these hiking boots. Apparently, LW still hadn't heard about the boots since he claimed on DP that none of the Rs ever owned a pair of these boots. Burke contradicted him, the man who had defended the family for decades, with his own hubris. Why did the Rs lie about he boots? Because of the print in the WC. They never said "well, yes he had a pair of those boots but he was always playing in the basement so that print could have been put there at any time". They lied because they know he was in the WC THAT night.

He maybe had pineapple. "Can you remember what you ate 20 years ago?" I think yes, if that was the last thing you ate before you sister's murdered corpse was found in your house. At age 10, he froze in panic when shown the photo of the bowl of pineapple, knelt on his hands on the chair and went blank. When asked to ID what was in the photo, he ID'd the table, the iced tea glass but refused to ID the bowl of pineapple, saying only "oh". It was chilling. "What was JonBenet's favorite snack?" asked the interviewer, "she didn't have a snack" he replied. That was a wow moment for me. Why did he freeze at the sight of the bowl of pineapple? Because it was a big part of what happened that night and may have been the catalyst for the violent attack on JBR. She didn't have a snack, but he did. As in, "this is mine, not yours". He remembers that she didn't get a snack that night likely because she stole a chunk of pineapple form his bowl and it enraged him. She touched his food.

Judith Phillips said that PR told her that Burke hit JonBenet with a golf club in anger. This is much different than what JR, PR and BR himself on DP have stated - that it was an accidental back swing. Why do I believe Judith over the Rs? Because she has no dog in this show and no reason to lie. Judith could not comprehend why the parents would request that none of their friends cooperate with LE in the murder investigation. She did and was shunned by the friends she had known since Atlanta. Why did they not want anyone to cooperate with LE in the investigation of their child's murder? Because they didn't want Burke's history of bizarre behavior to be known.

Dr. Glass, during her interview with Tricia, stated that Burke exhibited 'duping delight' meaning that he got pleasure out of lying about the events of JonBenet's murder. Chilling. She also stated that poop on the candy was an act of violence and hatred towards JonBenet. His smiling at the funeral, his giddiness during the interviews when he was a child and his laughing and smiling during the DP show made my skin crawl. He seems to be very delighted that no one has yet to figure out what happened that night and his hubris is making him leak out facts not previously known. He will never be able to withstand a withering cross examination.

I was shocked at the actions of Alex Hunter. It is as thought he knew that Burke was the murderer but since he could not be prosecuted, the Rs were going to be allowed to slide on the staging. Shocking.

Dr. Spitz proved beyond all doubt that a 10 year old (and Burke was just 2 weeks shy of being 10) could, in fact, deliver a deadly blow to the fragile skull of a 6 year old child. JR stated that it was laughable to even suggest a 9 year old had the strength to do such a thing, although Burke was 10 for all real purposes except prosecution, as he continued to distance Burke from the crime, even on the DP show. He is despicable.

The CBS investigators proved, without any room for doubt, that no one could go through the basement widow without destroying the spider web and disturbing the debris in the window well.

Dr. Lee proved that brand new clothing, right out of the package contains tDNA left over from the manufacturing and packaging process. He also explained how easy it is to transfer DNA from one place to another and that the minuscule amount of DNA was irrelevant to the crime. One can only imagine the amount of DNA that is transferred from workers in clothing sweat shops onto the clothing they make. DNA from fingers, sweat, saliva, even blood can be expected on even brand new clothing. Dr. Lee also proved that there will be DNA in the cord and possibly on the flashlight and batteries and they should all be tested again.

Most enlightening was that there was no sexual assault. None. Microscopic cellulose only. Could this have been from toilet paper? I think yes. No splinters of wood. This spins the staging into another realm altogether. I always assumed it was done to cover prior sexual abuse. Now I believe that the staging was done to cover an intentional act by a mentally disturbed and troubled kid and have rejected that this blow was done by a kid who didn't know his own strength. He knew and, IMHO, did this on purpose. He swung the flashlight into her head with as much force as he could muster because he has no control mechanisms.

What did Burke scream at Judith in an explosion of anger? "Go away! Don't touch me, leave me alone!"? She said that this came out of nowhere.

Lin Wood went on a twitter rampage last night, threatening to sue the world. Well, well, well. JR said this is the last interview he will ever give but I think not. The next ones will be under oath in depositions and Burke will find himself being grilled by a battery of attorneys. His smart alec answers won't fly in the big, cruel world of litigation and I hope LW does file suit so that BR has to squirm under intense pressure of withering examination. It is long overdue.

After all I have seen and read, I have formed an opinion and am 100% convinced that Burke killed JBR and has zero remorse. Zero. He was not held accountable and therefore thinks he did nothing wrong. No consequences equals no wrong doing to him.


POST OF THE DAY !

My sentiments exactly "
 
I think John was planning to take the body away. They probably planned to bury somewhere on their estate in, I think, Michigan. I believe that when he disappeared, he was trying to fit the body into the suitcase in the basement. Unfortunately, rigor had set in and he was unable to fit her in. They planned to take the suitcase with JonBenet inside and fly to Michigan and then no body would be found and it would appear that the kidnappers killed Jon Benet and hid her body. Leaving the Ramsey's clean and clear. This is why he was so upset after he reappeared and also why he brought the body upstairs. Patsy's grief and shock was genuine, she was not expecting to see JonBenet until the burial in Michigan.
 
This article was never published, the "Witscience" website was called out by the American Journal of Medicine for their hoax/fabrication. American Journal of Medicine tweeted that it was a hoax, and that no such article actually existed. You can see the tweet and the information here: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/hoax-blog-touts-fake-ajm-article-linking-aspergers-to-murder

There's also no such thing as the "Wyoming Institute of Technology." I mean, just so we're clear here. Do not try to fool a websleuth, it does not go over well. WITscience is a SATIRE site, or just a clickbait site for money, it's hard to tell because their satire isn't actually funny.

Thank you Ellie9! There will always be gullible people believing the Internet hoax stories, I had to block some friends who were always forwarding email stories that were obviously hoaxes.
 
I think John was planning to take the body away. They probably planned to bury somewhere on their estate in, I think, Michigan. I believe that when he disappeared, he was trying to fit the body into the suitcase in the basement. Unfortunately, rigor had set in and he was unable to fit her in. They planned to take the suitcase with JonBenet inside and fly to Michigan and then no body would be found and it would appear that the kidnappers killed Jon Benet and hid her body. Leaving the Ramsey's clean and clear. This is why he was so upset after he reappeared and also why he brought the body upstairs. Patsy's grief and shock was genuine, she was not expecting to see JonBenet until the burial in Michigan.

I agree, except for the part of transporting a dead body via airplane. That would be way too risky.....unless they had their own plane/no baggage handlers??
 
What about this scenario: BR and JBR have sneaked downstairs during the night. Pineapple is eaten. The incident happens and at some point the parents discover this. The cover up.is because they feel guilty for not supervising the children - in that sense it is not BRs fault either. The past golf club incident should have meant they were never alone together.

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