The Chair Blocking the Basement Door

[UKGuy]

Are you saying that it would have been absolutely, positively 100% impossible for Kolar to have been wrong about the gifts being Christmas gifts?

icedtea4me,
Nope, of course Kolar can be wrong, as we all can. Its just curious that Kolar highlights the Partially Opened Gifts which Patsy claims she opened, and then contrasts this with his apparent knowledge that it was Burke Ramsey who actually opened them not Patsy.

Patsy claims the opened gifts are Burke Ramsey's Birthday gifts, OK that's fine, yet Kolar refers to them as Christmas Gifts?

As you suggest maybe a mistake of attribution, all in the same sentence, who knows?

.

 

[SandyQLS]

His tDNA on the nightie
Knife found in basement
Hi-Tec print in basement (may or may not be his)

Thank you. The tDNA on the nightie that she was not wearing that night can be explained away just as easily. The tDNA could have been deposited at any point, the prior night, when they were playing or simply living in the home together. It really is not tied to the exact CS in the WC itself.

It is known that BR played in the basement, and so did his friends, and anyone could have put the knife there and the knife itself is also not known to be tied to the exact CS in the WC nor to the action of the murder.

I forget, was the Hi-Tec bootprint in the WC or just in the general basement?

 

[MsFox]

I suppose the chair may have been used to unlock the latch to the WC door? By someone too short to reach!

 

[icedtea4me]

I suppose the chair may have been used to unlock the latch to the WC door? By someone too short to reach!

What chair? There was a chair by the wine cellar door?

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Nope, of course Kolar can be wrong, as we all can. Its just curious that Kolar highlights the Partially Opened Gifts which Patsy claims she opened, and then contrasts this with his apparent knowledge that it was Burke Ramsey who actually opened them not Patsy.

Patsy claims the opened gifts are Burke Ramsey's Birthday gifts, OK that's fine, yet Kolar refers to them as Christmas Gifts?

As you suggest maybe a mistake of attribution, all in the same sentence, who knows?

.

I believe Patsy stated in one of her interviews that she paid for some gifts at FAO Schwarz in NYC and had them shipped gift-wrapped back home. Why isn't it believable that she had no idea of what was in certain gift-wrapped boxes on Christmas Eve and had to partially unwrap each one to find out what it was?

 

[Jolamom]

I believe Patsy stated in one of her interviews that she paid for some gifts at FAO Schwarz in NYC and had them shipped gift-wrapped back home. Why isn't it believable that she had no idea of what was in certain gift-wrapped boxes on Christmas Eve and had to partially unwrap each one to find out what it was?

I would think birthday gifts would not be wrapped in the same type of paper as Christmas gifts. Also, it is hard to believe a person would spend the money to have packages gift wrapped and then, the night before Christmas, sit on the basement floor and unwrap them just so she could refresh her memory as to what she had purchased. They had labels, she knew who they were for, why unwrap them? Doesn't actually make much sense. Makes far more sense that someone who had no idea what might be in them was looking for answers then someone who purchased them decided they needed to unwrap them just then in order to decide if they were acceptable.

 

[UKGuy]

I believe Patsy stated in one of her interviews that she paid for some gifts at FAO Schwarz in NYC and had them shipped gift-wrapped back home. Why isn't it believable that she had no idea of what was in certain gift-wrapped boxes on Christmas Eve and had to partially unwrap each one to find out what it was?

icedtea4me,

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Presents in Wine Cellar)

0390
18 TOM HANEY: Okay. And on Christmas Eve, when
19 you went in there --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: -- this wasn't there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
23 TOM HANEY: How about the blanket?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TRIP DEMUTH: If we could go back, kind of

0391
1 skipped over a couple of pictures here, 145.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: There is the bicycle.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: I have a question for you, 148
4 here.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: These were gifts I think I was
6 holding back for Burke's birthday.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: They are in the red and white
8 and yellow FAO Schwartz wrapping?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

12-26-1996 Search Warrant, excerpt

Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (55KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (56KKY)
Partially wrapped FOA Swartz (57KKY)

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Presents in Wine Cellar)

17 TOM HANEY: Before we go on, could we just
18 talk briefly about the packages, these were presents
19 for whom, the ones that were left in there?
0392
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe for, you know, I
21 held some back for Burke's birthday which is in
22 January.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
24 TOM HANEY: So that could have been that.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I don't remember what

0393
1 was in them.
2 TOM HANEY: Would any of these packages be
3 opened?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably. Well, see, these
5 came up, I was at FAO Schwartz in New York when
6 JonBenet and I were up there for a trip, and I had them
7 sent back to Boulder and they wrapped them, free gift
8 wrapping.
9 So like right here it looks like I kind of
10 peeled a little back to see what was in it because I
11 couldn't remember what was in them.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: If the wrapping has been undone
13 partially, that was --
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably would have done
15 that to peek to see what was in there.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
17 TOM HANEY: Where did you do the bulk of your
18 Christmas shopping, the items you put in there?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, all of this stuff right
20 here was from FAO Schwartz in New York.

FOA Swartz wrapping in the background

FOA Swartz wrapping

Why isn't it believable that she had no idea of what was in certain gift-wrapped boxes on Christmas Eve and had to partially unwrap each one to find out what it was?

Maybe so, but how come other Christmas gifts did not require opening, e.g. ones under the Tree?

If you put the gifts in the wine-cellar then you already know whose they are, no need to open them?

Why did Burke Ramsey admit to opening these gifts on Christmas afternoon?

So who really opened them BR or PR, answers on a postcard?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

I would think birthday gifts would not be wrapped in the same type of paper as Christmas gifts.

So, it would be impossible for FAO Schwarz to use the same wrapping paper for all of its gifts, no matter what the occasion?

Also, it is hard to believe a person would spend the money to have packages gift wrapped and then, the night before Christmas, sit on the basement floor and unwrap them just so she could refresh her memory as to what she had purchased. They had labels, she knew who they were for, why unwrap them? Doesn't actually make much sense. Makes far more sense that someone who had no idea what might be in them was looking for answers then someone who purchased them decided they needed to unwrap them just then in order to decide if they were acceptable.

What proof do you have that these gift-wrapped boxes had labels on them? How would she have been able to tell which one was Burke's Lego Christmas gift vs his Lego Birthday gift?

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Presents in Wine Cellar)


12-26-1996 Search Warrant, excerpt


June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Presents in Wine Cellar)


FOA Swartz wrapping in the background

FOA Swartz wrapping

Maybe so, but how come other Christmas gifts did not require opening, e.g. ones under the Tree?

If you put the gifts in the wine-cellar then you already know whose they are, no need to open them?

Why did Burke Ramsey admit to opening these gifts on Christmas afternoon?

So who really opened them BR or PR, answers on a postcard?

.

1. 0390
18 TOM HANEY: Okay. And on Christmas Eve, when
19 you went in there --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Patsy wasn't in the wine cellar on Christmas Eve?

2. Patsy knew Burke was receiving the Nintendo 64, the remote control car, and one of the Lego sets for Christmas. It didn't occur to you that it was obvious that the Nintendo and the car would have been in the smaller boxes; therefore, there would have been no need to partially unwrap them?

3. Please provide a link to a source where Burke states "I opened up wrapped up gifts in the wine cellar on Christmas afternoon".

 

[UKGuy]

1. 0390
18 TOM HANEY: Okay. And on Christmas Eve, when
19 you went in there --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Patsy wasn't in the wine cellar on Christmas Eve?

2. Patsy knew Burke was receiving the Nintendo 64, the remote control car, and one of the Lego sets for Christmas. It didn't occur to you that it was obvious that the Nintendo and the car would have been in the smaller boxes; therefore, there would have been no need to partially unwrap them?

3. Please provide a link to a source where Burke states "I opened up wrapped up gifts in the wine cellar on Christmas afternoon".

icedtea4me,
Interview with JR from 1998

4 LOU SMIT: And I wanted to do that and kind of lead into various photographs, okay? I've got photographs of the wine cellar. And these were taken during the course of the crime scene investigation. And it shows various presents in the wine cellar. And I just had a couple questions on that. 263, 264, 265, 266, 267 -- I'm sorry. We'll eliminate those 266, 267 and 268. we'll just concentrate on the first three. And we'll just show that to the camera and that will make up somewhat of an image. Do you have any comments about that, or does anything that looks out of place? Because you're the one that knows basically your house.

20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch of gifts at FAO Swartz up in New York in early December, some of which were for them were for Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't know they were in the closet exactly,

Interview with Patsy from 1998

TT: What, what do you normally store the Christmas presents say before the 25th.

PR: I the basement. I had them all in the basement.

TT: Okay. Because there were some extra Christmas presents. Who were they for? Do you remember?

PR: Well, I had, I had some uh, bagged up and kind of ready to go up to the lake.

TT: Okay.

PR: We were going to the lake the 26th.

TT: Um hum.

PR: Michigan. And I had Melinda’s and Stewart’s and John Andrew’s.

TT: Okay. Those were the presents that were down in the cellar still?

PR: Uh. There were probably were some down there.

TT: Okay.

PR: I don’t know when you mean down still.

TT: Um, on the 26th there was still some presents downstairs.

PR: When, uh, I was, if there were I don’t remember, I had them kind of. . .

TT: Kind of all over the place?

PR: . . .you know, all over, yeah. And I had, uh, I know I had a (Lego?) set down there that I had gotten for Burke’s birthday which was in January, so I ...

wrt 2. It did occur to me, since I've seen the Partially Opened Gifts. Its pretty obvious what the gifts are, it you purchased them, there size and shape tells you what they should be. More so when compared with other purchases, e.g. size-12's.

The Partially Opened Gifts are in the black and white image on the right.

Burke opening the gifts is cited by Kolar in his book, its common knowledge.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

*snip*Its pretty obvious what the gifts are, it you purchased them, there size and shape tells you what they should be. More so when compared with other purchases, e.g. size-12's.

Let's say you have two gift-wrapped boxes with identical wrapping and both measure 18" x 12" x 8". You're stating that you would be able to tell what was in each box?

*snip*Burke opening the gifts is cited by Kolar in his book, its common knowledge.

So, if I was to get a hold of a copy of Kolar's book, I would be able to read this direct statement from Burke: "I opened up wrapped gifts in the wine cellar on Christmas afternoon"?

 

[Jolamom]

So, it would be impossible for FAO Schwarz to use the same wrapping paper for all of its gifts, no matter what the occasion?d

I have no proof, just as you most likely have none to prove otherwise. But common sense suggests that if one was buying presents for both Christmas and and a birthday coming up, you would ask for there to be not only names on all the packages but wrapping paper differences to be able to tell the two different occasion's gifts apart.

What proof do you have that these gift-wrapped boxes had labels on them? How would she have been able to tell which one was Burke's Lego Christmas gift vs his Lego Birthday gift?

Again, I don't have proof, I am suggesting just plain common sense. Why would a person purchase and have gifts prewrapped for two different occasions (especially for the same person) and not make sure there is a way to tell each present apart once they are wrapped? There would be no point to having them wrapped if you had to unwrap them in order to decide what was what.

 

[UKGuy]

Let's say you have two gift-wrapped boxes with identical wrapping and both measure 18" x 12" x 8". You're stating that you would be able to tell what was in each box?



So, if I was to get a hold of a copy of Kolar's book, I would be able to read this direct statement from Burke: "I opened up wrapped gifts in the wine cellar on Christmas afternoon"?

icedtea4me,

Let's say you have two gift-wrapped boxes with identical wrapping and both measure 18" x 12" x 8". You're stating that you would be able to tell what was in each box?

Your missing the point, its not a question and answer session, where we score points.

Its about an inference any human can make, e.g. I went shopping, I purchased n large gifts, had them gift wrapped and shipped to my door. When they arrive I can guess from the size alone, those must be Burke's gifts, e.g. Lego Set, etc, q.v. picture.

What I'm suggesting is that from the size of the gifts alone Patsy could confidently assume these are Burke's, if she is wrong, i.e. later on she opens one of Burke's gifts, since its in the wrong set, no big deal, just do a swap.

Because you or I did not purchase these gifts we could not make the decisions regarding who they were purchased for, based on size alone.

Patsy could and must have since she placed them into the wine-cellar then claimed she forgot what was in them so had to Partially Open them to have a peek at the contents. Which is patently a contradiction in terms, right out of her own mouth!

PR: . . .you know, all over, yeah. And I had, uh, I know I had a (Lego?) set down there that I had gotten for Burke’s birthday which was in January, so I. . .

So, if I was to get a hold of a copy of Kolar's book, I would be able to read this direct statement from Burke: "I opened up wrapped gifts in the wine cellar on Christmas afternoon"?

You not think I might have cited that? In his book Kolar quotes Burke as saying he tore open the Partially Opened Gifts on Christmas Day afternoon!

In case some think my focus on the Partially Opened Gifts is pedantic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/30nfvc/hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/

I believe the torn wrapping on the Christmas presents photographed in the wine cellar played a part in the circumstances surrounding the murder. I can’t say how, because it was a part of my hypothesis.

Kolar patently thinks it was an important, if not pivotal, event so outlining that Patsy must be lying regarding her description of how the gifts became unwrapped is important.

e.g. It might actually have been JonBenet who opened those Partially Opened Gifts and Burke Ramsey is also lying, e.g. you have two Ramseys wanting to steer you clear of the truth?

Then the chair, subject of the thread, well that might have been used by JonBenet to stand on, I digress ...

.

 

[Userid]

I believe Patsy stated in one of her interviews that she paid for some gifts at FAO Schwarz in NYC and had them shipped gift-wrapped back home. Why isn't it believable that she had no idea of what was in certain gift-wrapped boxes on Christmas Eve and had to partially unwrap each one to find out what it was?

Wow, great point. FAO Schwartz wrapping wasn't "Christmas-themed," so this would be necessary.

If the other gifts were ever partially opened, they would have simply been re-wrapped/taped and put by the tree. My point is, we don't and will never know if the gifts in the wine cellar were the only gifts ever partially opened.

 

[Userid]

I have no proof, just as you most likely have none to prove otherwise. But common sense suggests that if one was buying presents for both Christmas and and a birthday coming up, you would ask for there to be not only names on all the packages but wrapping paper differences to be able to tell the two different occasion's gifts apart.


Again, I don't have proof, I am suggesting just plain common sense. Why would a person purchase and have gifts prewrapped for two different occasions (especially for the same person) and not make sure there is a way to tell each present apart once they are wrapped? There would be no point to having them wrapped if you had to unwrap them in order to decide what was what.

We have the photos of the actual FAO Schwartz wrapping, which wasn't Christmas themed. It's simply white with a picture of a rocking horse in various colors, with a bow on top. Even if they were labeled, BR's parents would still need to know which gifts they were, as they probably had certain ones they wanted to give him for each occasion. I'm sure they didn't want to give him all of his "big" (i.e. more expensive, etc.) gifts on one occasion; they would have wanted to split the big gifts between both occasions.

 

[Jolamom]

We have the photos of the actual FAO Schwartz wrapping, which wasn't Christmas themed. It's simply white with a picture of a rocking horse in various colors, with a bow on top. Even if they were labeled, BR's parents would still need to know which gifts they were, as they probably had certain ones they wanted to give him for each occasion. I'm sure they didn't want to give him all of his "big" (i.e. more expensive, etc.) gifts on one occasion; they would have wanted to split the big gifts between both occasions.

But let's look at this logically. If you were buying gifts and having them prewrapped for two different occasions for the same person, would you not ask those wrapping them to make some way for you to identify them? I would and have in the past, as I have Dec 27 and Dec 29th birthdays in my family. I often buy things and have them wrapped and shipped ahead. I also request that there be a way for me to identify them so I do not waste my time and money having them wrapped simply to have to unwrap them again in order to figure out what is what. I ask for either distinction in papers or a simple way for me to distinguish what is what. They all have willingly complied without complaint.

 

[Userid]

^ What if that option was never offered by FAO Schwartz? You're simply assuming that this was an option; that the store offered different types of wrapping paper for separate occasions.... there is no evidence of this and seems far-fetched. Corporations this popular and in demand around the holidays wouldn't waste money on multiple wrapping papers for multiple occasions: they would use one "uniform" wrapping paper to cover all occasions -- that's thinking about it logically.

Just look at the photos: all of the FAO Schwartz gifts are wrapped in exactly the same wrapping. They were probably labeled by name (i.e. how they were somewhat distinguishable), but the store probably only offered one style of wrapping paper, at the time.

 

[UKGuy]

^ What if that option was never offered by FAO Schwartz? You're simply assuming that this was an option; that the store offered different types of wrapping paper for separate occasions.... there is no evidence of this and seems far-fetched. Corporations this popular and in demand around the holidays wouldn't waste money on multiple wrapping papers for multiple occasions: they would use one "uniform" wrapping paper to cover all occasions -- that's thinking about it logically.

Just look at the photos: all of the FAO Schwartz gifts are wrapped in exactly the same wrapping. They were probably labeled by name (i.e. how they were somewhat distinguishable), but the store probably only offered one style of wrapping paper, at the time.

Userid,
The Schwartz paper was identical on all the gifts purchased in NY. So does this mean Patsy opened all the other Schwartz wrapped gifts, i.e. those upstairs, e.g. one to the right of JonBenet in the photograph. Seems like they must have been labeled, or Patsy could work out which gift was intended for which person by size alone.

The Partially Opened Gifts in the wine-cellar are distinctive by size, so could easily be identified?

.

 

[Userid]

^ We will never know if these were the only gifts partially opened or not. She very well could have opened some that were re-wrapped/taped and set for the kids that Christmas morning. She probably only opened the ones that were only labeled for BR, assuming they were labeled, in that he would have been the only one she would have to worry about and/or shop for gifts intended for both his b-day and his Christmas.

 

[CoreyRocks]

IMHO Fao Schwartz is a very high-end store I would believe they would have noted the gifts with some sort of identification of contents when the store did the gift-wrapping. Either with instructions from the buyer (I believe PR was IN the actual retail store) or a code number to match a packing list of items referenced. They would have been "labeled" somehow, not with a sticky label necessarily, but something that could be taken off easily or something separate to refer to. They, imoo, would not just wrap multiple gifts and mail them in the same carton with no way to determine what specifically was inside.