The complicity of Patsy in coverup.

[horatio]

With the parallels to Leopold & Loeb, has anyone ever considered that this might've been a 'thrill killing'? JR & PR and/or an Intruder(s) wanted to create the 'perfect crime' and feel superior when the case went unsolved. The movie quotes & parallels to L&L in the RN point to someone(s) who were obsessed with crime. Don't know if 'Mind hunter' was actually found in the R's bedroom, but that could possibly support the theory.

The hard part in dealing with this case is always speculating about the motive. This theory is, as with L&L, that there was no motive (besides the thrill of killing & getting away with it).

PS Coincidentally, Charlevoix, Michigan, where Ramsey's were headed & lived, also home to Castle Farms, Loeb's Dad's summer estate.

 

[Steely]

Why do I feel she was talking about the staging here... Its just to earily the way I picture it. This from the 1998 interview found on acandyrose.

(my bold)
(SNIPPED)

TH: Patsy, why the long underwear?

PR: Well, I remember I was digging around for something. I was trying to find the pink ones she wore the night before. I couldn't put my hand on them right quick. And so I went to these drawers looking for the pajamas, and she was just laying there, so I didn't want to raise her up and get everything off of her to put a long nightgown, so looking for pajamas bottoms to put on her. I couldn't find any, and the long underwear pants were in their drawer, so I got those.

Thanks, Agatha_C! PR did not say, "she was asleep, so I didn't want to wake her up." Instead, she tells us that JB "was just laying there" and she didn't want to "raise her up.":waitasec:

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks, Agatha_C! PR did not say, "she was asleep, so I didn't want to wake her up." Instead, she tells us that JB "was just laying there" and she didn't want to "raise her up.":waitasec:

Steely,

Sounds , well almost, evangelical.


And on the third day .... he was raised etc.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Why do I feel she was talking about the staging here... Its just to earily the way I picture it. This from the 1998 interview found on acandyrose.

(my bold)


(IBID, p. 213; shown a picture of the Barbie nightgown found next to JonBenet's body, Patsy is questioned about it)

TH: When would she have worn that last, do you know?

PR: Well, she didn't wear it that night, because she had her--she had the long underwear pants and her little white shirt. And the night before on Christmas Eve night she wore the pink little...that was under her pillow. And before that I don't remember. But neither of those two nights she wore that.

TH: Patsy, why the long underwear?

PR: Well, I remember I was digging around for something. I was trying to find the pink ones she wore the night before. I couldn't put my hand on them right quick. And so I went to these drawers looking for the pajamas, and she was just laying there, so I didn't want to raise her up and get everything off of her to put a long nightgown, so looking for pajamas bottoms to put on her. I couldn't find any, and the long underwear pants were in their drawer, so I got those.

Agatha_C

Why do I feel she was talking about the staging here

Because like the size-12's. I do not think she did what she is saying at the interview. Its all invented, since the obvious question is why not any other pair of pajamas?

TH: Patsy, why the long underwear?

She already has long underwear on, does she not, size-12's?


IMO Patsy never redressed JonBenet in those size-12's or longjohns!

Remember back to the size-12's, if she had redressed JonBenet, she would have fetched a pair of size-6, at the same time she fetched the longjohns, she would have known how inconsistent size-12's woould not only look but be to explain away, as per the intruder.

So I reckon either John or Burke redressed JonBenet in the above items?


.

 

[Peepers]

More and more Im leaning towards the murderer being the other family member in the house that night.

 

[txsvicki]

JonBenet would probably have been very tired that night and really could have fell asleep on the drive to deliver a couple of different gifts, but it does seem odd that she never roused or even woke up for just a little bit while being lifted out of the car, taken up the winding stairs, put into bed, and pants being changed. Was JonBenet's coat in her room?

 

[Agatha_C]

Agatha_C


Because like the size-12's. I do not think she did what she is saying at the interview. Its all invented, since the obvious question is why not any other pair of pajamas?


She already has long underwear on, does she not, size-12's?


IMO Patsy never redressed JonBenet in those size-12's or longjohns!

Remember back to the size-12's, if she had redressed JonBenet, she would have fetched a pair of size-6, at the same time she fetched the longjohns, she would have known how inconsistent size-12's woould not only look but be to explain away, as per the intruder.

So I reckon either John or Burke redressed JonBenet in the above items?


.

Agatha-----> :floorlaugh:

 

[Toltec]

JonBenet would probably have been very tired that night and really could have fell asleep on the drive to deliver a couple of different gifts, but it does seem odd that she never roused or even woke up for just a little bit while being lifted out of the car, taken up the winding stairs, put into bed, and pants being changed. Was JonBenet's coat in her room?

Exactly...I have a five year-old and whenever I would pick her up to put her to bed, she would arouse, but briefly. If I tried to put pajamas on her, she would wiggle and wake up to tell me to leave her alone.

 

[Agatha_C]

Exactly...I have a five year-old and whenever I would pick her up to put her to bed, she would arouse, but briefly. If I tried to put pajamas on her, she would wiggle and wake up to tell me to leave her alone.

Thats what I'm thinking Toltec. I have carried many the 5-6-7 year old into the house and never once did they sleep through it. Here's the thing that I cant get over... You have a bed wetter and I have had my share of those too (its a danger that comes with the job..LOL) you cant just put a bed wetter to bed, you must first have them go potty and the Rs didnt do that, WHY? She wasnt taken potty or put in a pull-up and they had to be up and out early. A child that wet the bed would have to be bathed before she could be dressed to leave, unless she was treated like the commode, and left unflushed and that folks is neglect and abuse.

 

[Agatha_C]

Exactly...I have a five year-old and whenever I would pick her up to put her to bed, she would arouse, but briefly. If I tried to put pajamas on her, she would wiggle and wake up to tell me to leave her alone.

You wrote a mouthful/eye full right there. What child would just lay there? They struggle and grumble, sometimes cry and always fight you. Its not an easy thing to do, dressing the cantankerous child.

 

[Toltec]

You wrote a mouthful/eye full right there. What child would just lay there? They struggle and grumble, sometimes cry and always fight you. Its not an easy thing to do, dressing the cantankerous child.

Nedra told Steve Thomas that if anyone tried to awaken a sleeping JonBenet, she would scream bloody murder. They'd get an elbow or a kick. Nedra told Steve Thomas that JonBenet would not wipe herself properly and would have to be washed and her undies changed.

Patsy told Tom Haney that if JonBenet did not use the toilet before bed, she would most likely wet the bed.

You have a six year old who woke up at 5:30am Christmas day. She is excited to open her presents, plays with neighborhood children, rides her new bike around the patio, plays with Daphne and other kids at the White home...

I believe she did konk out in the car...but when John lifted her out of the car, she woke up. She is, I believe, still running on adrenaline and asks for a snack. She eats pineapple and puts some in a tupperware bowl to take on the plane the next morning. She places the tupperware bowl in her backpack and hangs it over the doorknob in her bedroom. That is where some pineapple is found.

 

[madeleine]

is this how it happened with the RN as well,did she always had to fix HIS mess?

I don't like to use the phone??wth excuse is THAT?

 

[madeleine]

you know,sometimes I think that JR acted just like a little scared boy,crying and asking for help and saying I am sorry and his wife was there for him,comforting him,promising they will get over this,I'll help you don't worry,I am right here for you like I always am when you NEED me cause it feels great to be NEEDED ,right,especially when you're gone all the time and ignoring me.

He might try to look strong but he's not a strong man IMO,she was way stronger than him.It's not like she'd be the first woman who sacrifices herself for her husband because he so needs her help to clean up the mess.

dunno........

 

[Sophie]

I think that pretty much everything about Patsy points to her being the perp and in fact I have finally got around to formulating my theory in this regard. In a way, though, I think the dynamic of the family was such that whoever didn't do the actual physical deed probably is contributorily responsible - for me, John's behaviours were key to Patsy's fatal act. The dynamics of the family are also precisely why they would close ranks against the outside world - but, if it came to end game, John would ultimately have preserved himself while Patsy probably would have protected John, possibly because doing otherwise would necessitate her admitting to having overlooked or ignored inappropriate behaviours on John's part.


On a related point, one thing has has bugged me a bit in the last few months has been Steve Thomas's willingness to give John a pass in this case. He talks in the interview of feeling a deep personal affinity with John and he seems to have thought that, had Beth been molested, she would have told someone and, when no one came forward about this, it was definitely the case that she hadn't been molested. This shows horrible naivety about abuse and, anyway, Beth and JBR were separate girls and both provided different opportunities to a father with changing 'needs' and 'desires' so too much importance should not have been attached to Beth's fate in as much as it might bear on JBR's fate.

I don't actually think John did molest JBR although I am sure someone (possibly female) did molest her without even knowing that that was what he/she was doing. However, I don't think the case against John was properly developed and disproven. This isn't really to criticise ST since he had so much else to do and I think he was on the right track but I do think he was perhaps taken in a bit by John.

 

[madeleine]

I just CAN'T find an explanation as to why he would cover for her!It doesn't make sense!There are photos showing them smiling to each other,you can't do that if the other one HURT you so bad,especially when you already lost one daughter.I don't buy the "it was for ther image",it doesn't work.
You would hate her and despise her SO much!
I just can't believe that he would even stage the crime for her,mess with his daughters body ,to protect a psycho?
If PDI it has to be something else,he's guilty of some horrible things as well/which made him keep his mouth shut
OR they both covered for BR.
OR there could be another explanation,it's like ST thought (I really really doubt it though),that he had no clue.Yeah right,no clue...

 

[madeleine]

would you spend all your time and money to defend a crazy woman who KILLED your child?would you allow her to raise the only child left?
makes no sense to me,really.his behaviour tells me something totally different.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Is that article from a recent tabloid?

 

[madeleine]

nope it's old.forgot to post the link

http://www.acandyrose.com/20021203enquirer.htm

 

[DeeDee249]

As I try to analyze their behaviors- Patsy seems to be the more panicky one- even though her voice on the 911 call seems too deliberately stressed- with the heavy breathing. That breathing seemed forced. A person who was truly hysterical at finding their child missing and a RN would be crying, not just panting. So we have a mother, distraught at what happened to her child. And what had to be DONE to her child. Then we have the father- JR seeming oddly calm. Calm during the 911 call, calm when police arrived shortly after, casually looking through his mail. The take-charge type; and the staging was already done at that point- all that was left was for police to "find" her. This was important because the Rs knew they'd be leaving that house and not returning, and I firmly believe they did not want to leave her to rot and be found by cadaver dogs when neighbors reported the smell. Except LE didn't find her. And he was surprised that FW didn't find her either when he looked into the WC earlier (unbeknownst to JR). I believe (and forensics agrees) that she was placed in the WC within minutes of her death, but I also believe that around 10-11 am on the 26th, during the time Det. Arndt claimed JR had disappeared, that he went down to the WC and moved her (possibly by simply pulling her along the floor, blanket and all) to a position closer to the door. Then, the first chance he got (given to him by Det. Arndt) he ran straight to the basement and "found" her.
Then we have the strange detachment of BR that morning- happily and calmly going off to play his new Nintendo at a friend's. No worries about his sister- no fear that maybe HE would be kidnapped, too. It is as if he knew she was still in the house. (she was, but at this point she was supposed to have been kidnapped).
These three behaviors point to family involvement on some level, probably by all three. It seems more likely to me at this point that the parents covered up this horrible death for one (or two) of their kids. Patsy stressed but not hysterical. JR stressed but calm, almost resigned. That is actually how I see JR when it comes to this crime-resigned.
Combine this with the inexplicable silence of Patsy's parents and one of her sisters, and some odd comments from her stepdaughter's then-fiancee, the fracturing of close friendships, and the whole mess stinks of a coverup.

 

[Toltec]

My_Tee.... When TH asked> "Patsy, why the long underwear?" I wanted to know why he asked that question and in just that way. What did they know about the pj pants? Did they find them? Or did they find the matching shirt to the long johns in the dirty cloths near the WC? Is there more here? Perhaps a secret that was actually kept?

As God is my witness...I do recall reading somewhere that JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were found in Burke's bedroom.

Did the molestation start in Burke's room?