The cries for help

[Phoenixfla]

The witness says it was dark, no moon and he was 20 to 25 yards away from the guy laying on the ground. He said someone was screaming. With all the black on zimmerman's coat why would he call it a red tshirt? How did he even see the red at that distance?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...essed-part-of-Trayvon-Zimmerman-confrontation

My point is that if he was coerced into saying red, why wasn't he coerced into saying jacket instead of tshirt?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I am having a real hard time trying to figure out why Zimmerman was laying on the ground screaming? Why wouldn't he be using every ounce of his being to struggle out from under the person? What was stopping him from just standing up? Why was he screaming so long?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

My point is that if he was coerced into saying red, why wasn't he coerced into saying jacket instead of tshirt?

Red was the key, nothing else mattered.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Red was the key, nothing else mattered.

According to the quoted article above, he never stated "red" to the detectives. It was only when a camera was pointed at his face that he said red.

 

[LambChop]

My point is that if he was coerced into saying red, why wasn't he coerced into saying jacket instead of tshirt?

He also said he believes the person screaming was TM. If you believe his statement you would have to believe all of it. jmo

 

[csziggy]

BEM: So you can actually visualize the 5'8" GZ, holding onto a screaming 6'3" TM, while lying beneath him holding a gun on him? Was TM sitting there helpless with his hands in the air screaming and not trying to get away? How is that realistically or logistically feasible?

Respectfully edited.

The Initial Police Report lists TM as being 6' tall, not 6'3". Until the autopsy is released, that is the most official information I know of for TM's height.

 

[gxm]

Screaming for help in a life threatening situation is pleading for your life. IMO

Okay, so apparently there is no recording of anyone pleading for their life. In that case, IMO, it's an embellishment made to make GZ sound cruel. It evokes images of TM on his knees begging GZ not to shoot him and, given that there is a recording before the shot is fired and it reveals that no such dialog took place, this embellishment, IMO, enters the realm of fabrication.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[gxm]

I am having a real hard time trying to figure out why Zimmerman was laying on the ground screaming? Why wouldn't he be using every ounce of his being to struggle out from under the person? What was stopping him from just standing up? Why was he screaming so long?

When I was having my head slammed into the floor, I couldn't get up until someone pulled my attacker off of me. I imagine GZ was screaming in the hopes someone would pull TM off of him.

To turn your point around: Why did TM remain on top of GZ? Why didn't he get off of him and run like heck? It was dark, and I would think it's difficult to hit a moving target in the dark. And, AFAIK, no one was on top of TM holding him down.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[vlpate]

Trayvon's brother, not sure it was his voice screaming. He is 23, I think. Very, very likable young man.

http://www.atoast2wealth.com/2012/04/01/trayvon-martins-brother-jahvaris-fulton-speaks-in-exclusive-interview-video/

 

[vlpate]

He also said he believes the person screaming was TM. If you believe his statement you would have to believe all of it. jmo

How would he know? I don't recall him saying this in the 911 call or the interviews, but I didn't watch the second one all the way through.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

When I was having my head slammed into the floor, I couldn't get up until someone pulled my attacker off of me. I imagine GZ was screaming in the hopes someone would pull TM off of him.

To turn your point around: Why did TM remain on top of GZ? Why didn't he get off of him and run like heck? It was dark, and I would think it's difficult to hit a moving target in the dark. And, AFAIK, no one was on top of TM holding him down.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I think the evidence shows he was not getting his head slammed over and over on the concrete. But he was laying there screaming so how was he being held down? Why didn't he just stand up?

 

[Karmady]

Okay, so apparently there is no recording of anyone pleading for their life. In that case, IMO, it's an embellishment made to make GZ sound cruel. It evokes images of TM on his knees begging GZ not to shoot him and, given that there is a recording before the shot is fired and it reveals that no such dialog took place, this embellishment, IMO, enters the realm of fabrication.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Agreed, or at a minimum, hyperbole. Imo, it diminishes the credibility of the argument. Came up with this article while googling hyperbole. How coincidental is it that it references a Florida judge saying just that. lol I'm still voting SYG hearing!

http://lawfirmsuccess.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/hyperbole-the-language-of-love-not-law/

 

[GrandmaTo4]

How do we know TM wasn't trying to keep GZ from shooting him. If those were TM's screams I would say that was more likely than TM was trying to get the gun from GZ. I could see someone trying to grab and push the gun away to keep from getting shot and GZ thinking he was trying to grab his gun. Why would GZ lie about the details though??? jmo

bbm

I can think of a few BIG reasons for George to LIE.

What if, during the confrontation Trayvon DID indeed tell George that he was on the way home to his dad's girl friend's condominium and was simply coming back from buying Skittles and ice tea at the local 7-11.

Perhaps Trayvon even showed George his purchases and emptied his pockets.

WHOOPS!

At that time George knew darn well he had made a very bad mistake -- but he became madder than ever. This NOT-an-a$$h*le was going to get away too -- but with much worse ramifications for George.

What if, George had immediately confronted Trayvon with his gun in his hand -- you know, the gun he was absolutely NOT supposed to have when patrolling his neighborhood as the hero Neighborhood Watch CAPTAIN who desperately wanted a career in law?

Does anyone think George decided he darn well better figure out how to get out of THAT embarrassing situation immediately? Is it legal for someone to detain and pull a gun on an innocent kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong? I don't think so!

What would Officer Smith think of George if GZ's calls for police assistance the THIRD time in less than a month were again only because of George's all to frequent paranoia?

IMO, because of his CWC license AND his minimum *police training,* George absolutely DID KNOW Florada's SYG laws backwards and forwards -- probably sideways too.

Therefore, he took the easiest way out of his very big WHOOPS.

He did not want to be embarrassed by his *fellow law officer* He certainly did NOT want to be charged with brandishing a firearm and illegal detention -- so he simply hollered "help" once and proceeded to shoot a hollow point bullet square into the chest of the WAILING, NOT-up-to-no-good, NOT-a-druggy, Not-a-suspicious-burglar BLACK KID. Easy peasy!

DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES!

And it almost worked perfectly, didn't it?

all in my opinion, of course

 

[vlpate]

Respectfully edited.

The Initial Police Report lists TM as being 6' tall, not 6'3". Until the autopsy is released, that is the most official information I know of for TM's height.

"The report listed Trayvon at 6 foot and 160 pounds, though his family said he was actually 6-foot-3 and weighed at most 150 pounds"

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/31/2725442_p4/what-is-known-what-isnt-about.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Dr.Fessel]

"The report listed Trayvon at 6 foot and 160 pounds, though his family said he was actually 6-foot-3 and weighed at most 150 pounds"

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/31/2725442_p4/what-is-known-what-isnt-about.html#storylink=cpy

I wonder what happened to those 3 inches?

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I don't find the fact that he said "t-shirt" to be out of the ordinary. Another person said "white t-shirt" on a 911 call for this case.

Yes, and it was the SAME boy who also said it was a red T-SHIRT. See what I mean? ... witness statements are often highly unreliable, just as this boy's and John's statements in this case are unreliable.

imo

 

[AJ Noiter]

Yes, and it was the SAME boy who also said it was a red T-SHIRT. See what I mean? ... witness statements are often highly unreliable, just as this boy's and John's statements in this case are unreliable.

imo

No, this was an adult female. Here's a transcript:

7:16 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "There's someone screaming outside."

Dispatcher: "Is that at where you are at?"

Caller: "Oh, my God, there is a gunshot, hurry up."

[inaudible]

Dispatcher: "Do you see anybody? I don't need you to go outside."

Caller: "There is someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."

Dispatcher: "Do you see anything? I don't need you to go outside. Do you hear screaming or anything?"

Caller: "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."

Dispatcher: "OK, we [have] police and emergency, OK. Are you in Sanford?"

Caller: "I see police now."

Dispatcher: "You see the officer?"

Caller: "Yeah, but like it's behind the house. There is a dead body there. It's not the front entrance. Oh, my God."

Dispatcher: "Please tell me so I can tell them."

Caller: "If you are looking at my house, it's behind by my back porch."

Dispatcher: "Coming from behind your house?"

Caller: "Yes, the back porch."

Dispatcher: "Stay on the line and update me."

Caller: "I just heard screaming and a gunshot."

Dispatcher: "We have an officer there. Did you hear any more gunshots?"

Caller: "No, I don't hear. Hurry up, hurry up."

Dispatcher: "OK, we have officers out there, OK? If anything changes, give us a call back, but we do have officers there. One officer is there."

Caller: "OK, did he see anything?"

Dispatcher: "I'm not sure, ma'am, I just know he is there, and two other officers are on their way, OK? If anything changes or anything more, call us back. As far as you know, it's coming from behind your house near your back-porch area? When you hear screaming, was it screaming of female or male?"

Caller: "Male."

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"

Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

Dispatcher: "What do you mean guy on top? Did you see a fight?"

Caller: "I don't know, I just looked out my window, and there was a guy on top wearing a white t-shirt."

Dispatcher: "A white t-shirt. Did you see what kind of pants? He was on top of what?"

Caller: "I couldn't see the person he was on."

Dispatcher: "But he was on top of a person?"

Caller: "Yes."

Dispatcher: "The guy with the white t-shirt, did he get up and run?"

Caller: "I don't know. Went to the phone to call you

Dispatcher: "White, black or Hispanic?"

Caller: "I couldn't tell, it was completely dark."

Dispatcher: "We have several units en route."

Caller: "Thank you."

This was the young boy's call...

7:19 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Caller: "My brother said someone got shot behind our house."

Dispatcher: "Is your brother out there right now?"

Caller: "No, he ran in the house."

Dispatcher: "Do you know who was shot?"

Caller: "No idea. ... I'm inside. It's behind our house. ... Yeah."

Dispatcher: "You didn't see or hear anything else? Did you hear the shot?"

Caller: "I heard something, and my brother ran in the house."

Dispatcher: "My brother saw it."

Dispatcher: "What did you see?"

Caller: "I saw a man laying on the ground screaming who needed help. I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, and I ran and got him, and I hurried around and down, and the screaming stopped."

Dispatcher: "Did you see the person get shot?"

Caller: "No."

Dispatcher: Did you know the person who got shot, or did you see the person with the gun?"

Caller: "No, I just heard a shot, and the screaming stopped."

Two completely different individuals. You can listen to the audio of both calls if you go to the link provided earlier in this thread by VL (sorry, my clipboard had stuff on it I wanted to save).


Edit: Side note, spoiler tags would be nice so we don't have to scroll past these long posts... just imo.

 

[jjenny]

He also said he believes the person screaming was TM. If you believe his statement you would have to believe all of it. jmo

If you are talking about 13 year old boy, how could he possibly know that it was TM screaming? He claims he saw one person on the ground wearing red t-shirt. He says that a person on the ground was screaming for help in 911 call. Which suggests he never even saw TM, let alone saw him scream.

 

[jjenny]

My point is that if he was coerced into saying red, why wasn't he coerced into saying jacket instead of tshirt?

I saw him in an interview, reporter asked him about the color, he said red.
If he was coerced prior to that, he could have said he didn't know what color the person was wearing. But he said it was red.

 

[zenreaper]

bbm

I can think of a few BIG reasons for George to LIE.

What if, during the confrontation Trayvon DID indeed tell George that he was on the way home to his dad's girl friend's condominium and was simply coming back from buying Skittles and ice tea at the local 7-11.

Perhaps Trayvon even showed George his purchases and emptied his pockets.

WHOOPS!

At that time George knew darn well he had made a very bad mistake -- but he became madder than ever. This NOT-an-a$$h*le was going to get away too -- but with much worse ramifications for George.

What if, George had immediately confronted Trayvon with his gun in his hand -- you know, the gun he was absolutely NOT supposed to have when patrolling his neighborhood as the hero Neighborhood Watch CAPTAIN who desperately wanted a career in law?

Does anyone think George decided he darn well better figure out how to get out of THAT embarrassing situation immediately? Is it legal for someone to detain and pull a gun on an innocent kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong? I don't think so!

What would Officer Smith think of George if GZ's calls for police assistance the THIRD time in less than a month were again only because of George's all to frequent paranoia?

IMO, because of his CWC license AND his minimum *police training,* George absolutely DID KNOW Florada's SYG laws backwards and forwards -- probably sideways too.

Therefore, he took the easiest way out of his very big WHOOPS.

He did not want to be embarrassed by his *fellow law officer* He certainly did NOT want to be charged with brandishing a firearm and illegal detention -- so he simply hollered "help" once and proceeded to shoot a hollow point bullet square into the chest of the WAILING, NOT-up-to-no-good, NOT-a-druggy, Not-a-suspicious-burglar BLACK KID. Easy peasy!

DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES!

And it almost worked perfectly, didn't it?

all in my opinion, of course

So TM comes up on or is approached by a man with a GUN in his hand and what he says, per the girlfriend is "Why are you following me?" Really?

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