The cries for help

[BiancaS]

This site has the witness audios in the form of MP3s.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

Wow, great site!!! Many interviews that I have not found anywhere else, including the Homeowners Assn President.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Well then at least in theory prosecution is in trouble because they are the ones with a burden of proof.

They have the shell casing, the location of the body and Zimmerman's statements. They say that tells the story of what happened.

 

[jjenny]

They have the shell casing, the location of the body and Zimmerman's statements. They say that tells the story of what happened.

Looking at some of these SYG cases, some of these defendants lied to police, tampered with evidence, and still were either found not guilty or immune under SYG. Zimmerman right away admitted what he did, and I presume his statement is consistent with the evidence (at least that's what police claimed before Angela Corey replaced the original DA), but at least in theory he can now completely change his story and that doesn't guarantee prosecution will be sucessfull.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

A clearly broken nose...


So, assume someone cold cocked you and broke your nose, when the Officer finally arrives to write it up, you will say "Nah, no big deal, I am not seriously injured?"

snipped for focus

1. I don't know much about how broken noses look, so I did a google image search and IMO GZ's nose looks in a lot better shape than 90% of the images that came up. And BTW a picture of GZ did NOT come up in the first three pages at least--which is where I stopped--and these searches are pretty up-to-the-minute.

Also, even the doctor stopped short of pronouncing GZ's nose broken, IIRC. Didn't the medical report describe it as "probable" or "likely" or something to that effect?

2. But that's just what GZ did, isn't it? He was made at least three offers to be taken to the hospital IIRC and he declined each one. Not a refusal I would expect from someone who was "savagely" beaten.

JMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

A clearly broken nose, and large contusions and lacerations on the back of George's head are not serious? Really? So, assume someone cold cocked you and broke your nose, when the Officer finally arrives to write it up, you will say "Nah, no big deal, I am not seriously injured?" Come on.....What is a serious injury? GZ was obviously having his head beat on something....Maybe an inground sprinkler, or that was just how the contusion formed, would be a bit more telling the next day most likely.

How bad a beating, and "serious injuries sustained" must one take before lethal force is justified in your mind? In Missouri, where I call home, the standard is that one must be in fear of their life, or in fear of the life of another, regardless of whether such fear is actually present. It just has to be believed by the actor at the time.....ie. If someone comes up behind me and says, "I have a gun, do not move".....and I trip and fall, drawing and shooting the individual from the ground......even if he did not have a gun and was bluffing, so long as I believed he did and posed a threat, it is legally justified.

BBM

No, I would not do what George did.

I would not do what George did in any of the steps he took that night.

 

[stmarysmead]

snipped for focus

1. I don't know much about how broken noses look, so I did a google image search and IMO GZ's nose looks in a lot better shape than 90% of the images that came up. And BTW a picture of GZ did NOT come up in the first three pages at least--which is where I stopped--and these searches are pretty up-to-the-minute.

Also, even the doctor stopped short of pronouncing GZ's nose broken, IIRC. Didn't the medical report describe it as "probable" or "likely" or something to that effect?

2. But that's just what GZ did, isn't it? He was made at least three offers to be taken to the hospital IIRC and he declined each one. Not an refusal I would expect from someone who was "savagely" beaten.

JMO.

This man who was doing a service in a neighborhood riddled with crime, did not deserve to be beaten. He is a community activist..like our President...he mentored minority children...and gave his tme to try to make his neighborhood a better place. IMO he is on trial now for saving his own life.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This man who was doing a service in a neighborhood riddled with crime, did not deserve to be beaten. He is a community activist..like our President...he mentored minority children...and gave his tme to try to make his neighborhood a better place. IMO he is on trial now for saving his own life.

I never said he deserved to be beaten, and I fail to see how any of the other statements you make have anything to do with the content of my post that you quoted with this response.

And by the way, as far as I know that mentoring of minority children has never been confirmed by any source other than GZ's family/friends. If you know differently I would love to see it.

ETA again: I work for a child-serving organization and I guarantee you that NO ONE who had had any type of DV history, as GZ did, would EVER be allowed in the volunteer door. Domestic violence and child abuse go hand-in-hand.

So I'm really interested in this mentoring history. Was it done in conjunction with any agency?

ETA: I also have seen no evidence that his neighborhood was "riddled" with crime. It wasn't the South Bronx. Which also isn't even the South Bronx any more in terms of crime.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This man who was doing a service in a neighborhood riddled with crime, did not deserve to be beaten. He is a community activist..like our President...he mentored minority children...and gave his tme to try to make his neighborhood a better place. IMO he is on trial now for saving his own life.

BBM

I have seen no proof of that.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

That has not been proven. There is nothing in evidence that GZ "stalked" anyone like a dog.

Believe it or not, I agree.

ETA for clarification: Only because I disagree with the term "stalking" to describe GZ's actions that night.

 

[Emeralgem]

This man who was doing a service in a neighborhood riddled with crime, did not deserve to be beaten. He is a community activist..like our President...he mentored minority children...and gave his tme to try to make his neighborhood a better place. IMO he is on trial now for saving his own life.

In all reality there is absolutely no proof George Zimmerman was beaten that night by Trayvon Martin...IMHO..All his little scrapes and scratches could have easily been caused by him losing his balance and falling into a bush or a tree in the immediate area...JMHO..

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Guys and gals,

Once again we've gone off thread topic. I include myself in that.

Let's get back on track.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Well...isn't it time some of the hyperbole went in GZ's favor. LOL But the article did say that that Mother was terrified. Don't you think being alone with your Baby when two Thugs break in to steal is... terrifying? Is that such a "loaded" phrase? Article says they moved out the next month.

Well, it would terrify me...and I'd be grateful to have GZ looking out for me and my neighbors after numerous incidents.

God save me from GZ looking out for me. I've seen the results of his looking out for.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

BBM

No, I would not do what George did.

I would not do what George did in any of the steps he took that night.

Well, I am too old to take a beating. If you throw a punch, I am throwing lead....I am not waiting to find out what level of malicious your intent is. Just as if you break into my home, I assume you are a threat to my life. If you physically engage me, I am going to win. I am going to shoot first assuming that you understood, and weighed that possibility prior to your punch, and accepted that risk when you engaged me.

We have had multiple people in St. Louis killed by this very thing. The newspaper calls it the "Knock Out Game," the kids playing it call it "Polar Bear Hunter." Middle Schooler's killed a man who was walking home with his wife. See: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cdf5032a-b65e-51e0-a84e-de0f0ce0c5f8.html

If TM physically engaged GZ, GZ had every right to kill him. I am sorry if that is not something you understand, but stupid kills. Even if TM's intent was to just "send a message," he could have easily given GZ a TBI from whatever he was beating his head on, and changed his life forever. That is a risk that a victim should not have to take.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

snipped for focus

1. I don't know much about how broken noses look, so I did a google image search and IMO GZ's nose looks in a lot better shape than 90% of the images that came up. And BTW a picture of GZ did NOT come up in the first three pages at least--which is where I stopped--and these searches are pretty up-to-the-minute.

Also, even the doctor stopped short of pronouncing GZ's nose broken, IIRC. Didn't the medical report describe it as "probable" or "likely" or something to that effect?

2. But that's just what GZ did, isn't it? He was made at least three offers to be taken to the hospital IIRC and he declined each one. Not a refusal I would expect from someone who was "savagely" beaten.

JMO.

1. Please cite your source, everything I read was that it was a closed fracture. See: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...juries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7nGWZj3MR8

"A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation. "

So you Google Image searched it, and GZ's picture did not show up, so you do not believe it was "broken enough?" Really?!? Respectfully, that is absurd. "Really broken", or "sort of broken", or even "possibly broken" is indicative of a physical altercation.

2. I do not believe George had health insurance, so he might have avoided the hospital because of that.....or it could be that he just shot and killed someone. I know people who were sick to their stomach the first time they had to take a life. It is not an easy thing to do. That coupled with the fact he had adrenaline coursing through his veins, he likely did not realize the extent of his injuries at the time. He probably wanted to deal with the Police, get home to his family, and then deal with it in the morning......I just think too much is being made of him declining transport. Even if he had gone, it is not like they were going to conduct a tox screen on him, if that is why you think he declined, out of fear of being found to be "on drugs" despite the fact there is nothing to indicate he has any history of drug abise. He was obviously injured.....unless you believe like some here that the Police on the scene were lying about his injuries, that George Zimmerman paid someone to beat him up when he was finally released from Investigative Detention, and then went to the Doctor.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Well, I am too old to take a beating. If you throw a punch, I am throwing lead....I am not waiting to find out what level of malicious your intent is. Just as if you break into my home, I assume you are a threat to my life. If you physically engage me, I am going to win. I am going to shoot first assuming that you understood, and weighed that possibility prior to your punch, and accepted that risk when you engaged me.

We have had multiple people in St. Louis killed by this very thing. The newspaper calls it the "Knock Out Game," the kids playing it call it "Polar Bear Hunter." Middle Schooler's killed a man who was walking home with his wife. See: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cdf5032a-b65e-51e0-a84e-de0f0ce0c5f8.html

If TM physically engaged GZ, GZ had every right to kill him. I am sorry if that is not something you understand, but stupid kills. Even if TM's intent was to just "send a message," he could have easily given GZ a TBI from whatever he was beating his head on, and changed his life forever. That is a risk that a victim should not have to take.

The only person who says TM hit GZ first is GZ. That is not proof. That is an excuse for bad behavior. Look. People get murdered in St. Louis. They get murdered in Chicago. They get murdered in LA. The difference here is that the murderer did it under cover of self-defense. I believe that from what we know about the circumstance and his prior behavior, it is likely that GZ stalked and murdered TM because TM would not allow him to detain him, which is illegal and the legal term for it is false imprisonment. George Zimmerman is a bully and is now a murderer, IMO, and the fact that every area has it's murders, alarming though it may be, does not apply to this situation nor does it excuse George Zimmerman. IMO George Zimmerman is the criminal from whom people should cringe and fear him. He has a gun and uses it at will.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

The only person who says TM hit GZ first is GZ. That is not proof. That is an excuse for bad behavior. Look. People get murdered in St. Louis. They get murdered in Chicago. They get murdered in LA. The difference here is that the murderer did it under cover of self-defense. I believe that from what we know about the circumstance and his prior behavior, it is likely that GZ stalked and murdered TM because TM would not allow him to detain him, which is illegal and the legal term for it is false imprisonment. George Zimmerman is a bully and is now a murderer, IMO, and the fact that every area has it's murders, alarming though it may be, does not apply to this situation nor does it excuse George Zimmerman. IMO George Zimmerman is the criminal from whom people should cringe and fear him. He has a gun and uses it at will.

Except that TM showed no signs of being hit, while GZ had ample evidence he had been hit. Thus, it seems illogical to argue that GZ hit TM. If that was the case, where are TM's injuries to indicate that he received as a result of GZ possibly hitting him first?

 

[jjenny]

Except that TM showed no signs of being hit, while GZ had ample evidence he had been hit. Thus, it seems illogical to argue that GZ hit TM. If that was the case, where are TM's injuries to indicate that he received as a result of GZ possibly hitting him first?

TM has no injuries to support the idea that he was hit.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

TM has no injuries to support the idea that he was hit.

That was indeed my point. The argument that GZ might have hit TM first is not supported by fact, or even any evidence that GZ even hit TM at all.

 

[suzihawk]

Except that TM showed no signs of being hit, while GZ had ample evidence he had been hit. Thus, it seems illogical to argue that GZ hit TM. If that was the case, where are TM's injuries to indicate that he received as a result of GZ possibly hitting him first?

Zimmerman didn't need to hit Trayvon. He had a gun to use instead of his fists. Trayvon was fighting him off - fighting for his life.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

1. Please cite your source, everything I read was that it was a closed fracture. See: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...juries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7nGWZj3MR8

"A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation. "

So you Google Image searched it, and GZ's picture did not show up, so you do not believe it was "broken enough?" Really?!? Respectfully, that is absurd. "Really broken", or "sort of broken", or even "possibly broken" is indicative of a physical altercation.
2. I do not believe George had health insurance, so he might have avoided the hospital because of that.....or it could be that he just shot and killed someone. I know people who were sick to their stomach the first time they had to take a life. It is not an easy thing to do. That coupled with the fact he had adrenaline coursing through his veins, he likely did not realize the extent of his injuries at the time. He probably wanted to deal with the Police, get home to his family, and then deal with it in the morning......I just think too much is being made of him declining transport. Even if he had gone, it is not like they were going to conduct a tox screen on him, if that is why you think he declined, out of fear of being found to be "on drugs" despite the fact there is nothing to indicate he has any history of drug abise. He was obviously injured.....unless you believe like some here that the Police on the scene were lying about his injuries, that George Zimmerman paid someone to beat him up when he was finally released from Investigative Detention, and then went to the Doctor.

1. I didn't cite a source, sorry. I was relying on my memory of the doctor's statement being a "possible" or "probable" or "likely" but not a
"definite" fracture, which is why I framed it in the form of a question.

If my memory misserved me on what the doctor said, I readily admit to being mistaken and have no problem admitting I'm wrong in the face of evidence from the doc dump--which is where I thought I got this information--proving it. So can you point me to the doctor's statement that his nose was definitely broken?

Also you are twisting my words. I never said that GZ's broken nose not showing up on the google image search = his nose wasn't "broken enough." My original post did not even contain the words "broken enough" so I fail to see how you are extrapolating that.

Moreover, I don't disagree with you that '"Really broken", or "sort of broken", or even "possibly broken" is indicative of a physical altercation'--however the discussion was not about whether a physical altercation took place; I was addressing your assertion of a "clearly" broken nose.


2. There is a lot of IMO conjecture and speculation here, not to mention attributing things to me I never said or even remotely implied--for example that he declined because he was on drugs and so forth.

However, I will say, as someone who works in healthcare, that a person who fears he/she has life-threatening injuries will not refuse medical treatment for lack of ability to pay.

If you (not you personally, just a rhetorical question jumping off from your post) had a heart attack and someone called 911 for you and the paramedics arrived to take you to the nearest hospital, do you think you'd say "No, thanks, I can't pay for it so never mind"?

Or to be more in line with this case, if you'd had your head slammed into concrete to the extent that you might have a concussion or thought you were one blow away from a head injury requring diapers for the rest of your life, would you refuse treatment because of your financial situation?