The cries for help

[Dr.Fessel]

For people mocking the seriousness of GZ injuries like you are doing on I would like to know what exactly do you think makes you such an expert in what a person should like after a terrifying violent encounter?

I've been in real fights, trained combat sports, and MMA is the only sport I pay attention to, and I assure you countless people have been incapicated wih injuries less visibly severe then GZ's and in a real life encounter that experience would be legitimately terrifying for many. I suspect most people supporting your position would terrified if a stranger jumped on top of them and just started slapping them even if they weren't even injured at all. With multiple bruises and lacerations and a likely broken noise your rhetoric shows zero empathy for ALL victims of violent crime. A victim doesn't need to meet your imagined standards to have had genuine fear and the medical records are more then enough to establish that a beating took place.

About five seconds before the gunshot there is a very distinct scream/moan that isn't an actual call for help but sounds like a person making an "ooh" tyoe sound from being injured. That scream can only be reasonably matched to a person who was injured. Since TM has no injuries it really doesn't make any sense that the screamer was TM.

Since TM was uninjured and the best eyewitness has him on top beating GZ "MMA style" why would he have been screaming for help and making sounds like he was being injured?

BBM

As far as this case goes how many fights you have been in, trained in or watched on tv has nothing to do with what happened that night. Of course people slip and fall and die on the spot from injuries that never show again though it has nothing to do with this case. imo

 

[ariesgodofwar]

BBM

I am not mocking, I am just pointing there are no serious injuries on George Zimmerman in that picture. I have see 5 year olds in fights with more serious injuries. imo

A clearly broken nose, and large contusions and lacerations on the back of George's head are not serious? Really? So, assume someone cold cocked you and broke your nose, when the Officer finally arrives to write it up, you will say "Nah, no big deal, I am not seriously injured?" Come on.....What is a serious injury? GZ was obviously having his head beat on something....Maybe an inground sprinkler, or that was just how the contusion formed, would be a bit more telling the next day most likely.

How bad a beating, and "serious injuries sustained" must one take before lethal force is justified in your mind? In Missouri, where I call home, the standard is that one must be in fear of their life, or in fear of the life of another, regardless of whether such fear is actually present. It just has to be believed by the actor at the time.....ie. If someone comes up behind me and says, "I have a gun, do not move".....and I trip and fall, drawing and shooting the individual from the ground......even if he did not have a gun and was bluffing, so long as I believed he did and posed a threat, it is legally justified.

 

[Alecto]

Well I have to admit less then 1 second before that shot I hear a person yell help plain as day.

This person who says it was MMA style did he write that in his police report? Is there a recording he did at some time after his police report?

Yes. "Throwing down blows MMA style" and a "ground and pound on the concrete" is from the recorded audio statement for the police. On this NYT page:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/us/new-details-are-released-in-shooting-of-teenager.html

Is this the person who at first claimed he knew who was yelling? He saw the style of attack from 30 feet away in the dark?

You think he is lying about what he saw cause it was dark?

Which witness do you think is more credible them him?

 

[stmarysmead]

savagely beaten, mothers and babies cringing in fear, element terrorizing hard working people;all loaded words and phrases. I have been subjected to enough of that from the media LOL.

Taking your emotional element out of it for just a moment- the only thing I am saying is that going around looking for people committing crimes with a gun is dangerous and irresponsible. Something is bound to happen and it is just not worth it imo.
I understand arming yourself in your home and taking action if someone invadses your territory,but walking around with a loaded gun trying to find it- well that's just a recipe for disaster.
As always JMHO.

Well...isn't it time some of the hyperbole went in GZ's favor. LOL But the article did say that that Mother was terrified. Don't you think being alone with your Baby when two Thugs break in to steal is... terrifying? Is that such a "loaded" phrase? Article says they moved out the next month.

Well, it would terrify me...and I'd be grateful to have GZ looking out for me and my neighbors after numerous incidents.

 

[stmarysmead]

A clearly broken nose, and large contusions and lacerations on the back of George's head are not serious? Really? So, assume someone cold cocked you and broke your nose, when the Officer finally arrives to write it up, you will say "Nah, no big deal, I am not seriously injured?" Come on.....What is a serious injury? GZ was obviously having his head beat on something....Maybe an inground sprinkler, or that was just how the contusion formed, would be a bit more telling the next day most likely.

How bad a beating, and "serious injuries sustained" must one take before lethal force is justified in your mind? In Missouri, where I call home, the standard is that one must be in fear of their life, or in fear of the life of another, regardless of whether such fear is actually present. It just has to be believed by the actor at the time.....ie. If someone comes up behind me and says, "I have a gun, do not move".....and I trip and fall, drawing and shooting the individual from the ground......even if he did not have a gun and was bluffing, so long as I believed he did and posed a threat, it is legally justified.

Thank you. Now that the argument that GZ had NO injuries has been disproven...his injuries are mocked and discounted.

 

[Karmady]

Well...isn't it time some of the hyperbole went in GZ's favor. LOL But the article did say that that Mother was terrified. Don't you think being alone with your Baby when two Thugs break in to steal is... terrifying? Is that such a "loaded" phrase? Article says they moved out the next month.

Well, it would terrify me...and I'd be grateful to have GZ looking out for me and my neighbors after numerous incidents.

I'm quite sure that mother was terrified out of her mind with fear for her child. Who wouldn't be. It's not hyperbole at all. I hope the defense calls her. Her testimony is relevant on the ridiculous profiling allegation, imo.

 

[stmarysmead]

That Mom spoke so highly of GZ in that article. It was refreshing to read.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes. "Throwing down blows MMA style" and a "ground and pound on the concrete" is from the recorded audio statement for the police. On this NYT page:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/us/new-details-are-released-in-shooting-of-teenager.html


You think he is lying about what he saw cause it was dark?

Which witness do you think is more credible them him?

I can't get those recordings to play at NYT, I just downloaded the newest adobe flash and it did not help.

I found a small part of his interview on youtube. Looking some more.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes. "Throwing down blows MMA style" and a "ground and pound on the concrete" is from the recorded audio statement for the police. On this NYT page:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/us/new-details-are-released-in-shooting-of-teenager.html


You think he is lying about what he saw cause it was dark?

Which witness do you think is more credible them him?

Among the hours of witness statements to various law enforcement, one man saw the altercation between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman on the night of Feb. 26, and another witness said the neighborhood watch leader "does not like black people."

The neighbor, listed as "witness 6," watched the two men wrestling on the ground behind his house, but as he continued to be interviewed by various investigators, his story changed.

It's still unclear why prosecutors decided to charge Zimmerman with second-degree murder, but the statements from witness 6 appear to have changed as the weeks went on.




In a statement to police the night of the shooting, witness 6 said he saw two men wrestling on the ground. He said he saw a man matching Martin's description on top, punching Zimmerman on the ground.

"The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style," witness 6 told Sanford police within hours of the shooting.

But in follow-up interviews with the state attorney's office and Florida Department of Law Enforcement, his statement changed. In re-telling his story, he remained consistent by saying Martin was on top, in control, and had the advantage, but now, he wasn't sure if Martin was the aggressor.

W6: Did not hear a punch sound.
SAO: Did ever hear a sound like a head or another part of a body hitting concrete hard where it made a noise?
W6: No, I did not.
SAO: Did you hear it at all, like any...?
W6: Just the struggle sound.

Witness 6 went on to say, "I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there."


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wi...ath/-/1637132/13475090/-/15bcvf6/-/index.html

 

[Maxim]

For people mocking the seriousness of GZ injuries like you are doing on I would like to know what exactly do you think makes you such an expert in what a person should like after a terrifying violent encounter?

I've been in real fights, trained combat sports, and MMA is the only sport I pay attention to, and I assure you countless people have been incapicated wih injuries less visibly severe then GZ's and in a real life encounter that experience would be legitimately terrifying for many. I suspect most people supporting your position would terrified if a stranger jumped on top of them and just started slapping them even if they weren't even injured at all. With multiple bruises and lacerations and a likely broken noise your rhetoric shows zero empathy for ALL victims of violent crime. A victim doesn't need to meet your imagined standards to have had genuine fear and the medical records are more then enough to establish that a beating took place.

About five seconds before the gunshot there is a very distinct scream/moan that isn't an actual call for help but sounds like a person making an "ooh" tyoe sound from being injured. That scream can only be reasonably matched to a person who was injured. Since TM has no injuries it really doesn't make any sense that the screamer was TM.

Since TM was uninjured and the best eyewitness has him on top beating GZ "MMA style" why would he have been screaming for help and making sounds like he was being injured?

Would you tell us more about MMA tactics? TIA

 

[jjenny]

Witness 6 went on to say, "I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there."


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Wi...ath/-/1637132/13475090/-/15bcvf6/-/index.html

It sounds to me like these witnesses have been talking to each other and following the news. Some of them now appear to think they saw much more than they actually did, while others appear to think they saw much less. The first statement they made before talking to each other is likely to be more accurate than what they come up with later.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I thought witness 6 was a little too hyped up in that cut I heard on youtube.

 

[i.b.nora]

This site has the witness audios in the form of MP3s.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

 

[jjenny]

I thought witness 6 was a little too hyped up in that cut I heard on youtube.

As far as I can tell prosecution doesn't have any strong witnesses (nobody saw how the fight started), but I am concerned they all appear to want to move to one happy medium where all of their stories make sense. By the time the trial starts (if there is a trial) they might all be saying the same thing, for all I know. LOL.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This site has the witness audios in the form of MP3s.

http://axiomamnesia.com/2012/05/18/...ase-witness-interviews-statements-full-audio/

I don't think it has the one where he says throwing punches like MMA on it though.

 

[BiancaS]

It sounds to me like these witnesses have been talking to each other and following the news. Some of them now appear to think they saw much more than they actually did, while others appear to think they saw much less. The first statement they made before talking to each other is likely to be more accurate than what they come up with later.

There have been statements from some of the witnesses saying they were lead by the investigators in the initial statements that were taken. For example, what color was on top, who was yelling, etc. Witness 6 has said that he now realizes that there was no way that he would have been able to tell that the person on the bottom was yelling, it was too dark. I have not seen him say that his statement was influenced by what the original investigators told him, but it is possible that is why they have changed their statements. MOO.

 

[jjenny]

I don't think it has the one where he says throwing punches like MMA on it though.

He gave an interview on 2/26 where he had no problem describing what he saw.
That was before he got a chance to talk to anyone else, I presume.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

As far as I can tell prosecution doesn't have any strong witnesses (nobody saw how the fight started), but I am concerned they all appear to want to move to one happy medium where all of their stories make sense. By the time the trial starts (if there is a trial) they might all be saying the same thing, for all I know. LOL.

I think by the time of the trial they will all be telling the truth, it was dark, I saw one or two people and I heard this.

 

[jjenny]

There have been statements from some of the witnesses saying they were lead by the investigators in the initial statements that were taken. For example, what color was on top, who was yelling, etc. Witness 6 has said that he now realizes that there was no way that he would have been able to tell that the person on the bottom was yelling, it was too dark. I have not seen him say that his statement was influenced by what the original investigators told him, but it is possible that is why they have changed their statements. MOO.

He gave a handwritten statement on 2/26 and didn't appear to have any problems describing what he saw.

 

[jjenny]

I think by the time of the trial they will all be telling the truth, it was dark, I saw one or two people and I heard this.

Well then at least in theory prosecution is in trouble because they are the ones with a burden of proof.