The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 11th -12th June - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Week 1

[coolcat]

and today when the girl's interviews were being played (I was sitting 2 rows behind her and the had to look sideways at the screen to see the video so I could see her face clearly), she was displaying 'crying' actions and emotions, but I did not see one tear, Her performance walking out of the court was Oscar worthy also...

She is a stern old thing... At what point did she walk out and did she re-enter?
Lazard, are Allison's parents in court and also how is the atmosphere and interaction between Allison supporters and GBCs family? Very curious!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It still doesn't explain the absence of the rest of his family...none of them went to the oval to show support or wait for news, they didn't even take it in turns so the excuse to look after the children instead is not convincing either.
EBC stood on her lawn smiling and greeting visitors and showed rather inappropriate displays of affection to her husband - even yesterday EBC was smiling and not showing remorse the same way she did at Allison's funeral... That woman lacks a moral core... IMO

Yes, the Defence team see that too , hence she's not taking the stand. jmo

Hi all, I was there in court 11 today, sitting behind GBC, EBC, et all. These are my musings from today:

- in both of the girl's interviews, they were asked separately 'did you write anything on a piece of paper either on the evening of the 19th or the morning of the 20th April' - both said no, I wonder what the significance of this is?
- There was clearly more interviews done with the girls after ABC was found (they accidently played part of it today), wonder if the demeanour will change?
- The oldest daughter noticed and asked GBC on the night of the 19th why he was wearing shoes with his pajamas, his answer was that he was ironing. It seemed surprising to the daughter as she mentioned it in the interview.
- I was surprised that all fingernails were intact though detached that no mention was made by the forensic pathologist that any tests were done on them

More musings to come as I remember the day, so much to take in! I thought that although the crown case seems weak so far, there is a lot more to come. I wonder if GBC will take the stand, would like him to be grilled a la Oscar Pistorius!

Thank you for attending court and supporting Allison and her family, very much appreciated. I think any interviews with the children after their mum was found would be absolutely heartbreaking. I really don't think it would reveal much myself, once they knew mum was gone, a child clings to their dad, only natural.

Also about the fingernails. Was it ever mentioned they were recently cut? I'm just thinking if a murderer knows skin is under the nails, they might clip them. Just a thought, we're all clued up on postmortem forensics these days.

Regarding Oscar P being grilled, awww yeah, GBC wouldn't know if he was coming or going. Not going to happen, I'm sure. Dratz.

 

[Tishy]

I may be deceiving myself but I thought on Day 1 of the trial there was some reference by the pathologist Dr Milne to fingernails being sent for DNA analysis - but without any reference to the results?

 

[Snails]

Those screams could have been anything or anyone. It could be a TV's volume up loud watching a movie, it could be laughing that was mistaken as a scream, it could have been an argument between people (not necessarily between GBC/ABC) or it could have been a female getting scared by something completely random and non sinister.



I'm trying to find the undercover footage of Brett Peter Cowan (Daniel Morcombe killer) when he confessed to the killing to the UC detective and how he killed Daniel.



He explained in the confession that Daniel tried to run away and he grabbed Daniel, grabbed his throat and "before he knew it he was dead". When the UC detective asked him how long it took he said "It didn't seem long".



It could have literally been over within a minute or two with no screams and no noise whatsoever, especially if there was a pillow involved.

Look this up - "burking"
"to murder, as by suffocation, so as to leave no or few marks of violence."

 

[AAAA]

Hi all, I was there in court 11 today, sitting behind GBC, EBC, et all. These are my musings from today:

- in both of the girl's interviews, they were asked separately 'did you write anything on a piece of paper either on the evening of the 19th or the morning of the 20th April' - both said no, I wonder what the significance of this is?
- There was clearly more interviews done with the girls after ABC was found (they accidently played part of it today), wonder if the demeanour will change?
- The oldest daughter noticed and asked GBC on the night of the 19th why he was wearing shoes with his pajamas, his answer was that he was ironing. It seemed surprising to the daughter as she mentioned it in the interview.
- I was surprised that all fingernails were intact though detached that no mention was made by the forensic pathologist that any tests were done on them

More musings to come as I remember the day, so much to take in! I thought that although the crown case seems weak so far, there is a lot more to come. I wonder if GBC will take the stand, would like him to be grilled a la Oscar Pistorius!

Maybe the writing on paper has to do with the drawing that was released while Allison was missing?

 

[marlywings]

For any new members who may not have read some of the Bail Hearing affidavits, they are all located at following link...

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[coolcat]

Thanks for reporting back Lazard. Your input is very much appreciated.

Below is a copy and paste of a post I made recently. It explains about the girls writing something on a piece of paper.



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*


BBM.



According to Kellie Thomson GBC informed her that the note was written by his daughter. Yet both girls have denied this.

I so want to know what that note said!

Wow!! It must be quite significant. Wonder why all the credit cards were out on the table? I also wonder if he took any cash out of her purse?

 

[Lazard]

She is a stern old thing... At what point did she walk out and did she re-enter?
Lazard, are Allison's parents in court and also how is the atmosphere and interaction between Allison supporters and GBCs family? Very curious!

She didn't walk out during proceedings, the middle child's interview was the last evidence of the day, she walked out after that like everyone else. the only difference was she was being supported and appeared to have trouble walking. Allison's parents are not in court as they will be called as witnesses, the same applies to OW and NBC. A lot of tension seemed to be present between the two families, there seemed to be a 'staged' arrival and entry to the court all day so as to avoid any interaction. One of Allison's friends or family (not sure, sorry), had to leave during one of the girl's interviews. Even I drew a tear, but not EBC, but made it look like she was trying to conjure up the emotion...

 

[JAM13]

Look this up - "burking"
"to murder, as by suffocation, so as to leave no or few marks of violence."

Which would explain no evidence or suggestions for cause of death by the forensic experts. Minimal body trauma (apart from a couple of bruises that of no significance), no drowning, no high dose of lethal drugs in her system = Suffocation IMO

If you were suffocating (in this case a female) you would instinctively fight back with your hands and fingernails which = the caterpillar bites/shaving cuts on GBC's face :jail:

 

[Zim]

People who don't have a moral core may not choose to be that way. It could be a result of both genetics and socialisation. Sadly they exist. They often become politicians, motivational speakers, marriage enhancement counsellors, life insurance salespeople, vacuum cleaner demonstrators ...

LOL Possum !
....and Real Estate Agents !

:loveyou:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Those screams could have been anything or anyone. It could be a TV's volume up loud watching a movie, it could be laughing that was mistaken as a scream, it could have been an argument between people (not necessarily between GBC/ABC) or it could have been a female getting scared by something completely random and non sinister.

I'm trying to find the undercover footage of Brett Peter Cowan (Daniel Morcombe killer) when he confessed to the killing to the UC detective and how he killed Daniel.

He explained in the confession that Daniel tried to run away and he grabbed Daniel, grabbed his throat and "before he knew it he was dead". When the UC detective asked him how long it took he said "It didn't seem long".

It could have literally been over within a minute or two with no screams and no noise whatsoever, especially if there was a pillow involved.

IMO, I wouldn't believe a word Cowan said, he's a sadistic freak and wanted a lighter sentence. (his previous 2 victims are evidence of what he does. )

What I've read and seen in documentaries, it is actually very hard to kill someone. jmo

 

[coolcat]

For any new members who may not have read some of the Bail Hearing affidavits, they are all located at following link...

Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I'm not new but have only just come back to the fold :blushing:
Thank you so much for the link... I promise to catch up!

 

[Lazard]

Yes, the Defence team see that too , hence she's not taking the stand. jmo




Thank you for attending court and supporting Allison and her family, very much appreciated. I think any interviews with the children after their mum was found would be absolutely heartbreaking. I really don't think it would reveal much myself, once they knew mum was gone, a child clings to their dad, only natural.

Also about the fingernails. Was it ever mentioned they were recently cut? I'm just thinking if a murderer knows skin is under the nails, they might clip them. Just a thought, we're all clued up on postmortem forensics these days.

Regarding Oscar P being grilled, awww yeah, GBC wouldn't know if he was coming or going. Not going to happen, I'm sure. Dratz.

No, not mentioned at all, only that all fingernails were intact though detached due to decomposition.

The other thing that has just sprung to mind was both the daughters were asked if either of their parents were sick lately. It was mentioned many times thoughout the day that Allison had had a cold for the last couple of days before she went missing. The middle daughter was asked in her interview if her parents had been sick lately, she replied that 'Daddy was sick last night, but he's better today', one of the female constables (can't remember which one sorry), asked 'how do you know', the daughter replied 'cause he said so'.

Also, was only sitting behind the GBC family as that was the only seat available! Not a supporter!

 

[JAM13]

IMO, I wouldn't believe a word Cowan said, he's a sadistic freak and wanted a lighter sentence. (his previous 2 victims are evidence of what he does. )

What I've read and seen in documentaries, it is actually very hard to kill someone. jmo

This wasn't a statement given to police officers or during court PrimeSuspect.

This was when he went into an intricate and detailed account to the undercover detective (whilst living in Perth) of the events leading up to, during and after the abduction, murder and disposal of Daniel Morcombe. This is how the police discovered the whereabouts of his bones and also his clothing at a completely different location to the bones. This all came from the confession, not from police searching for Daniel.

So JMO, he admitted to everything in the video and it's quite clear.

 

[possumheart]

This wasn't a statement given to police officers or during court PrimeSuspect.

This was when he went into an intricate and detailed account to the undercover detective (whilst living in Perth) of the events leading up to, during and after the abduction, murder and disposal of Daniel Morcombe. This is how the police discovered the whereabouts of his bones and also his clothing at a completely different location to the bones. This all came from the confession, not from police searching for Daniel.

So JMO, he admitted to everything in the video and it's quite clear.

I know it JAM13, unfortunately - I figured Daniel was small.

 

[Lazard]

Hope you are feeling better Ippygal. Absolutely you can go to the trial, any day. Google the supreme court for its location in George Street. It's next to the magistrates court just passed the Turbot street intersection. Just walk in the main doors about 9.30 am, go through the security, like at the airport, and on your left on the wall are scrolling digital lists of the matters on that day. Look for the Criminal trial list and see what floor and room it's in. Then get the lift up to the floor and find the room. Hang around near the doors and when they open them, head on in and find a seat. You can leave the courtroom at any time, just bow to the judge as you go in and out the doors. If the courtroom is full you can go to the room that is set up for live streaming, the room number will be on the courtroom door.

I hope to get there on Friday for the day.

There is no court on Friday, Monday to Thursday only...

 

[Zim]

From memory it was Const Kellie's statement which originally mentioned the note she found on the kitchen table and set aside; the same statement mentioned the muddy joggers in the wardrobe.
Marlywings are you there?

I remember this too

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This wasn't a statement given to police officers or during court PrimeSuspect.

This was when he went into an intricate and detailed account to the undercover detective (whilst living in Perth) of the events leading up to, during and after the abduction, murder and disposal of Daniel Morcombe. This is how the police discovered the whereabouts of his bones and also his clothing at a completely different location to the bones. This all came from the confession, not from police searching for Daniel.

So JMO, he admitted to everything in the video and it's quite clear.

Ahhh yes, I hear what you're saying, I just wouldn't believe him, sorry. I remember the tape, but he's pretty cluey, he knows most men would be shocked if they knew what he actually does, they were drug crims only to him.
I'm sorry I don't want to go into details, it's my opinion not to believe his words, his actions, yes. :twocents:

 

[LadyBird1]

No, not mentioned at all, only that all fingernails were intact though detached due to decomposition.

The other thing that has just sprung to mind was both the daughters were asked if either of their parents were sick lately. It was mentioned many times thoughout the day that Allison had had a cold for the last couple of days before she went missing. The middle daughter was asked in her interview if her parents had been sick lately, she replied that 'Daddy was sick last night, but he's better today', one of the female constables (can't remember which one sorry), asked 'how do you know', the daughter replied 'cause he said so'.

Also, was only sitting behind the GBC family as that was the only seat available! Not a supporter!

Wow Lazard! Your reports are not only much appreciated, but mind boggling.
So today we learned that GBC was supposedly not only up "doing the ironing" in his pyjamas but wearing SHOES (and pyjamas whilst ironing) on the night of 19 April, the night Allison went missing.
He was not watching the footy after all.
Additionally we learn that GBC was SICK on the night of the 19th April. (That's new)
And how do the children know certain things are gospel truth: "'Cause he said so!"

PS Glad you explained your seating arrangements!

 

[Lazard]

Another thing I remember from today, Dr Milne said there was 'significant tissue loss on the left leg (shin) due to insect activity', in other words, insects are attracted to open wounds, sores or any other open cavity in a deceased body and feed on soft tissue. On Allison there appeared to be more activity on the left leg than is usually seen on a person with no prior injuries. Perhaps this could be the source of the 'blood in the car', perhaps a superficial injury whilst moving her?