The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 11th -12th June - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Week 1

[Lazard]

Just heard from a friend at the trial yesterday that EBC fell asleep during the morning session. She was actually snoring. Can anyone corroborate? Methinks she must be heavily medicated if this was the case. Day one!

Didn't see that, but that's not to say it didn't happen, a lot of people were focusing on Dr Milne as his testimony went for about 2 hours...

 

[Snails]

Lazard, this is significant. The defence apparently want to show that, even though she was otherwise "happy" and "moving forward", Allison felt she had disappointed GBC in not producing a boy. Three girls. And this news about the nephew was recent and therefore possibly responsible for her wandering off into the night! Outlandish, yes, but something the defence will throw into the depression/anxiety/reasonable doubt mix.

I find that so sad.


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[possumheart]

I thought I read in the post mortem that there was something under a fingernail bit I am not definitely positively completely sure.

 

[Zim]

Yes, that was in relation to whether Allison could take some time off work to attend something, her response was 'I'll have to check with the boss', it was clarified that this remark was in jest, tongue in cheek as she worked with her husband...

Don't see a problem here !
I had a craft stall at a school fete. It was the best stall and when asked how I got it I said that I had to sleep with the chairman of the PTA !

Shock ! Horror ! The look on the faces ! It was True.

My husband was the chairman of the PTA !
BTW I have my own business and am often referred to as the Boss by Hubby.
LOL ! But never Bwana !

 

[LadyBird1]

Lazard, this is significant. The defence apparently want to show that, even though she was otherwise "happy" and "moving forward", Allison felt she had disappointed GBC in not producing a boy. Three girls. And this news about the nephew was recent and therefore possibly responsible for her wandering off into the night! Outlandish, yes, but something the defence will throw into the depression/anxiety/reasonable doubt mix.

Oh what a terrible thing to suggest. And Allison is unable to defend herself. Such a beautiful mother.
I did wonder where they were going with all that.
That is way below the belt. Lower than a snakes belly. This would defy all manner of decency. Surely they cant be that cruel?

 

[Lazard]

Warning: Graphic Material below:

11am: Forensic pathologist Dr Nathan Milne old the jury of the body found under the Kholo Creek bridge.

He said the woman’s arms were upwards and her hands were still within the sleeves of the jumper when he examined her.

He said the collar of the jumper was around the neck and it was “inside out’’.

Dr Milne said he removed the jumper from the body and also identified a purple singlet, underwear, white sneakers and socks.

He said the woman was 170cm and weighed 72kg, which was likely to be less than her true weight due to fluid loss.

Dr Milne said the woman’s hair was long and brown.

He said the woman’s face, eyes and ears, nose, lips and tongue were missing and some of the facial skeleton was visible.

Dr Milne said that was a consequence of the putrefaction process, insect activity and activity from other animals.

“I think the loss of tissue is primarily insect activity on already decomposed tissue,’’ he said.

He said putrefaction was more likely to occur in areas where blood pooled in the body, a process called hypostasis, which he said was present along the right side of the woman’s body.

“That’s consistent with death in the position that we’ve seen or the body being put into that position… within a matter of hours of death,’’ Dr Milne said.

He said hypostasis would take place within half an hour of death and 12 to 16 hours after death.

Dr Milne said he saw no teeth marks on the tissue consistent with larger animal activity.

He said the hands showed no injuries.

He said the fingernails were all detached on the right hand, but he was able to find four of the nails within the jumper.

Dr Milne said there were no definite injuries found on the body.

“The putrefaction, mummification, changed colour of the skin, it can obscure injuries and obviously where the tissue is now absent, there could have been injuries there,’’ he said.

He said soft tissue loss around the face was common and did not necessarily mean there were injuries present around the face and head.

He said it was possible there was some sort of injury to the woman’s left shin, due to the level of insect activity there.

Dr Milne said the tongue and brain were affected by decomposition.

He said the soft tissues of the neck were damaged and the muscles “significantly decomposed’’.

Dr Milne said the carotid arteries, which were often resistant to decomposition, were able to be examined.

The hyoid bone, near the voice box, was not fractured or damaged, he said.

Dr Milne said there was no evidence of injury to the sternum, no fractures to the ribs but a “probable injury’’ on the internal lining of the chest wall.

“It was probably a bruise, I can’t exclude that as a post mortem effect, though,’’ he said.

He said a bruise, if this was one, would usually be caused by a blunt force injury with “mild’’ force.

Dr Milne said the area that looked like a bruise was around 5cm in size, on the left side of the chest, near ribs 4 to 6 and the “heart region’’.

He said there was a small amount of pink fluid and pale material that appeared to be food or possibly medication residue in the stomach.

“I think it’s probably just food material,’’ he said.

Dr Milne said the liver had a small amount of blood in it that was sampled for toxicology.

“That was the only blood I could find during my examination due to the level of putrefaction,’’ he said.

He said the liver would break down substances and metabolise medications, for example.

 

[Forthegirls]

Sorry, Forthegirls, need to clarify. The point being, Mummy must have tucked her in because she said she would.
She did not say "Mummy would tuck me in, and she DID tuck me in." Plus little things like, "she said this ..... and she sang that ...."
Subtle difference.
The child expected her mother to tuck her in as promised. Did that actually occur?

Therefore it may NOT be concluded that Allison was there at tuck in time. OMO.

And yes, agree totally, This is a girl who trusted her mummy 100%

Ahhhh, yes, I see your point. All good xx

 

[JAM13]

Warning: Graphic Material below:

11am: Forensic pathologist Dr Nathan Milne old the jury of the body found under the Kholo Creek bridge.

He said the soft tissues of the neck were damaged and the muscles “significantly decomposed’’.

I don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but when Dr Milne said this about the tissues being damaged on the neck, does 'damaged' mean it has happened as a result of decomposition/animals or could it mean the neck was subject to something along the lines of strangulation etc. ?

 

[Lazard]

I don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but when Dr Milne said this about the tissues being damaged on the neck, does 'damaged' mean it has happened as a result of decomposition/animals or could it mean the neck was subject to something along the lines of strangulation etc. ?

He couldn't say due to the stage of decomposition.

 

[Camp Chair]

Lazard, this is significant. The defence apparently want to show that, even though she was otherwise "happy" and "moving forward", Allison felt she had disappointed GBC in not producing a boy. Three girls. And this news about the nephew was recent and therefore possibly responsible for her wandering off into the night! Outlandish, yes, but something the defence will throw into the depression/anxiety/reasonable doubt mix.

BBM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked it is the male who determines the sex of a child. But I suppose he blamed Allison for this as well! :maddening:

 

[possumheart]

I still don't think Allison was tossed over.

Sen-Constable Huth said it would have been ``fairly easy’’ to access the concrete platform above where the body was found.

``You could get to that fairly easily, once you start negotiating past that you run into trouble,’’ he said.

The jury was shown a photo taken from the concrete platform beneath the bridge, looking up to the road, which the witness explained could be accessed from the road.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/day-2-gerard-badenclay-on-trial-for-murder-of-his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264

 

[Thinking]

But a suspect of what crime? At that point Allison was only missing.

Exactly. Which is why it also seemed odd to me that GBC and NBC raced down to the Gold Coast on the Friday afternoon to engage a criminal lawyer. Why, at that early stage?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think it was more that he prepared their minds as he went along - such as walking around with shaving foam on, explaining what he was doing and why, giving them plausible reasons for things as everything unfolded, so a picture and impression is painted that they believe as fact due to being children and trusting of their Dad.

Perhaps GBC had practised this sort of education and/or influencing already over years? There was trouble enough (unloved wife, depression, loved mistress, lost of money and between all 3 little children etc. etc.) and perhaps there were many "harmless" definitions of the whole stress in this probable unhappy home before.
Months ago, I read somewhere, GBC's parenting has been strictly and not without corporal punishment. If that is true, then to be afraid of the father has always played a role too. - GBC's parenting was exemplary and okay for Allison, she had noted in her diary. She wanted to cope with education as successful as GBC.
The photos of the funeral - GBC with his girls - show to me a father, who has his girls in front of him like a protective shield. He holds on to them. None of the girls hold on to him, although they would need a lot of comforting. The middle daughter has even crossed her arms, for unconsciously express distancing.
I'm afraid, the girls had often difficult times and even more since two years.
IMO

I know, my English isn't well, sorry.

 

[Froglady]

Just a question about Alison being on the couch watching tv. Was she alive then and did she speak to the daughter who got up or could she have possibly already died and been laying with her eyes open so the child thought she was watching tv? The father would have been a bit shocked seeing a child up if he was preparing the car etc for moving Alison sorry if its been covered elsewhere. I've only read up on the court proceedings post. Thanks

 

[Zim]

BBM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked it is the male who determines the sex of a child. But I suppose he blamed Allison for this as well! :maddening:

There are so many theories in this regard. I do not think it is proved that the male determines anything. No one has actually figured it out successfully I do not think....If they had the would be able to sell the 'recipe' for millions !
:blushing:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

100% and I believe this is why the girls weren't woken from any fighting/screaming for help when she was killed.

Maybe when she was sound asleep she was quickly smothered by a hand or pillow. She woke up with something covering her face and tried to use her hands (shaving cuts) to stop the perp, but before long it was all over. All without any sound or much of a struggle.

Man that gives me goosebumps.

BUT - there are witnesses heard arguments, screams and so on.
???

 

[Camp Chair]

She didn't walk out during proceedings, the middle child's interview was the last evidence of the day, she walked out after that like everyone else. the only difference was she was being supported and appeared to have trouble walking. Allison's parents are not in court as they will be called as witnesses, the same applies to OW and NBC. A lot of tension seemed to be present between the two families, there seemed to be a 'staged' arrival and entry to the court all day so as to avoid any interaction. One of Allison's friends or family (not sure, sorry), had to leave during one of the girl's interviews. Even I drew a tear, but not EBC, but made it look like she was trying to conjure up the emotion...

EBC having trouble walking may have something more to do with circulation problems I'd guess. She's a sizable woman who did have to sit for some time. May have had pins & needles or a dodgy sciatic nerve?? Seems more likely to me than being overcome with emotion & requiring help to walk. :twocents:

BBM
MOO

 

[possumheart]

Just a question about Alison being on the couch watching tv. Was she alive then and did she speak to the daughter who got up or could she have possibly already died and been laying with her eyes open so the child thought she was watching tv? The father would have been a bit shocked seeing a child up if he was preparing the car etc for moving Alison sorry if its been covered elsewhere. I've only read up on the court proceedings post. Thanks

That's what my other half said, and I then had a panic attack.

 

[Lazard]

Just a question about Alison being on the couch watching tv. Was she alive then and did she speak to the daughter who got up or could she have possibly already died and been laying with her eyes open so the child thought she was watching tv? The father would have been a bit shocked seeing a child up if he was preparing the car etc for moving Alison sorry if its been covered elsewhere. I've only read up on the court proceedings post. Thanks

This was in reference to when Allison had had her first child and had depression during and after the first pregnancy. She was aware that she had been like this and was concerned that her daughter had developmental issues because of it.

 

[Zim]

Just a question about Alison being on the couch watching tv. Was she alive then and did she speak to the daughter who got up or could she have possibly already died and been laying with her eyes open so the child thought she was watching tv? The father would have been a bit shocked seeing a child up if he was preparing the car etc for moving Alison sorry if its been covered elsewhere. I've only read up on the court proceedings post.

Yes, I wondered about that comment too.

I really should go to bed....awww... another few minutes...