The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 16th June - Trial Day 4

[Trooper]

I can't seem to shake the Joe Korp/Tania Herman vibe I get from this case. I'm not as up to date as I'd like to be so can someone tell me where Toni was when Alison went missing please?

there certainly is that strong element of adoration in Toni that Tania had for Joe... very very similar in that respect...


where the Joe Korp and the Gerard story part company is. ... Joe had the decency to hang himself when it was inevitable that he would be found guilty of the murder of Maria Korp.. a horrible way to die, too.. locked in the boot of a car for four days in a Melbourne summer heat wave..

 

[Neuromancer]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Ms McHugh says they didn't talk about what was happening. She says she knew she couldn't. #badenclay

Hardly any reason for them to "lay low" now that everyone in Brisbane knows about the affair.

I figure he just didn't want to have to answer TM's questions about it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I can't seem to shake the Joe Korp/Tania Herman vibe I get from this case. I'm not as up to date as I'd like to be so can someone tell me where Toni was when Alison went missing please?

I agree. Surely Toni had to tell police her movements on the night of 19th and early hours of 20th?

 

[Trooper]

She loved the dream. It happens. She probably sees herself at the centre of an earthshaking love affair, like Wallis Simpson and the Abdicator, Taylor and Burton, Brangelina and all those penny-dreadful romance novels she must have read at some time and which her mind failed to purge

Maybe she's happy playing tragedy-queen, one of two glorious, star-crossed lovers? Maybe she'll tell and retell/relive it for the rest of her life ...

Then you remember she managed to earn a teaching degree and raise twin boys, find work outside her chosen field, sell and buy property, etc. So on some levels she's practical and competent

Doesn't seem to have sunk into her skull yet what a narrow escape she had

I agree , in spades.. she hasn't realised yet that Gerard chose her specifically .. and it wasn't her charm or her small amount of money either.. it was her capacity, her actual need to be kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked till kingdom come..

 

[Makara]

Agree absolutely vile thing to say but I also thought maybe she put her foot in it as prosecution followed up with questioning suggesting allison was pregnant and as well as nauseau and vomiting isn't bladder control also adversely affected by pregnancy hormones? I remember having to wee every 20 mins from when I was 5 weeks on

Exactly! The first thing I thought when I read OW's nasty statement about Allison vomiting etc. was that Allison was most likely pregnant.

Does OW have any sons? Don't want to sleuth them, just curious is all.

 

[Liadan]

Here are a few reflections from my court experience today folks. Had the best day in court observing proceedings.

Today was what I (imagine) an important and integral day in the case against GBC. To be quite frank I think Mrs. Dickie stole the show. She was not suffering fools and being talked down to by people who claimed to know what her daughter was about - her view of Allison was coming through above all else.

Yes she was Allison's mum and foremost advocate but you got the feeling that their relationship was totally solid through time and that maybe they had times where a mum and daughter disagreed but they pulled together as soon as the heat of the moment passed. You got the feeling that if Allison ever said 'hey mum' Mrs Dickie would have already been there to support her girl.

The kayaker - was incredibly professional - he refused to be drawn on any inferences from the defense and was a picture of clarity in his descriptions his actions and on his hobby and the basic reasons for being in the area.

Kerrianne was lovely - and I can only I hope my bestie -would support me this well. She was circumspect and measured in her responses to the stupid questions the defense pushed her around on. The time frames - what exactly would your best friend tell you - everyone has areas in their life they don't reveal too much about and a best friend by definition is going to be respectful of those boundaries!!! So go suck that up defense counsel.

It brings us to ....Olivia - can't be bothered to write about her stand time. Wringing hands -charismatic stories about her depressive episodes that led GBC to be overly active in the parenting of the girls. Such amazing stories all about Allison struggling yet she was such a capable woman - insightful and an active problem solver. What would you SERIOUSLY expect Allison to do. There was no way Allison could remedy her husbands infidelity and lack of respect... and these family members are basically enabling dear poor fallen on hard times brother Jerred.

So while nothing was revealed that I didn't already know - perhaps some incidental comings and goings of the senior baden-clay clan on the day that Allison was reported missing. I think it just goes to show that the only people embellishing stories and bringing depression/suicide to the table are the supporters of GBC.

 

[KG1]

Agree absolutely vile thing to say but I also thought maybe she put her foot in it as prosecution followed up with questioning suggesting allison was pregnant and as well as nauseau and vomiting isn't bladder control also adversely affected by pregnancy hormones? I remember having to wee every 20 mins from when I was 5 weeks on

Whilst Allison may not have been pregnant at that time, she may well have been ill with a gastric bug. Forceful vomiting can and does cause loss of bladder control. This 'tale' was only told to denigrate Allison and give the illusion of vomiting due to anxiety and/or depression. For one who purported to love Allison, this whole episode, if indeed it occurred, would have been well left unsaid. It does nothing to change the fact that Allison was found dead and partially decomposed at the hands of another, some 14kms from her home.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

BBM

What is wrong with these people??! Was that part really necessary or relevant? Don't understand your motivation OW to humiliate Allison posthumously like that.

Yes, it's awful, and who's to know if that actually happened. Allison might have said, "oops, better get to the loo, I might have wet my pants" or something to that effect. :twocents:

 

[DunnoZo]

T: " I liked his drive" :sick:

 

[KG1]

there certainly is that strong element of adoration in Toni that Tania had for Joe... very very similar in that respect...


where the Joe Korp and the Gerard story part company is. ... Joe had the decency to hang himself when it was inevitable that he would be found guilty of the murder of Maria Korp.. a horrible way to die, too.. locked in the boot of a car for four days in a Melbourne summer heat wave..

Joe was better looking than the mustard jacket.:facepalm:

 

[BreakingNews]

I went to court today. The actual court room was packed full of family, so no public got in there. We sardined it (is that a word) into the TV room. Wasn't as bad as it might have been and we were able to applaud Mrs Dickie on her wonderful testament. Such a lovely lady.

I was a bit disappointed in some of the questioning. I had a lot more questions for OW, but the lawyers didn't. She got off lightly as far as I was concerned. As I said, Mrs Dickie was brilliant. At the end of the day TM was on the stand and again, I wanted to ask her more questions. Too bad I was merely a WSer in the court room. Seems like the defence are alluding to TM having had a motive to get rid of Allison. She was as mad as a wet cat on 19 April 2012 when she found out Allison was attending the same conference and GBC's hesitancy re TM. I have wondered all along if GBC and his lawyers would try to make TM look like the murderer.

 

[laserdisc10]

I agree , in spades.. she hasn't realised yet that Gerard chose her specifically .. and it wasn't her charm or her small amount of money either.. it was her capacity, her actual need to be kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked till kingdom come..

He was getting two birds for one stone

using TM to torture Allison

and Allison to torture TM


Then it all became a bit much, so he moved on to greener fields as relief from two women demanding he shape up. And he got himself a couple more on the side - probably as reserves in the torture stakes for when Allison or Toni called it quits

It's my opinion he wasn't in it for the sex, but for the power to hurt and destroy

He destroyed quite a few people in the few years we've heard about - and that's not even counting-in the Baden Clays and the Baden Powells or the Dickies or his own children or Toni's children

 

[they'll get you]

Folks if some of you feel like looking in from the outside there's seats waiting.

The same rules apply as they always have.

Cut the derogatory & over the top comments from the discussion thanks.

Please please help me? The guys keep putting double sized photos up of TMCH & I keep loosing my lunch.
Anyone got some windex?

Seriously I'm being effected by the cruelty of these people. I must be wrapped in cotton wool because I never have seen such calculated nastiness.

To say she lost control of her bladder, SO WHAT? Is this meant to dehumanise and discredit Allison?
I love mums how they can have 3 children and pee their pants when they sneeze, laugh or spew.
Us mums are the backbone of society, don't upset this mother bear.
OW you are the one who discredits mums like me I DONT LIKE IT!

 

[Trooper]

I went to court today. The actual court room was packed full of family, so no public got in there. We sardined it (is that a word) into the TV room. Wasn't as bad as it might have been and we were able to applaud Mrs Dickie on her wonderful testament. Such a lovely lady.

I was a bit disappointed in some of the questioning. I had a lot more questions for OW, but the lawyers didn't. She got off lightly as far as I was concerned. As I said, Mrs Dickie was brilliant. At the end of the day TM was on the stand and again, I wanted to ask her more questions. Too bad I was merely a WSer in the court room. Seems like the defence are alluding to TM having had a motive to get rid of Allison. She was as mad as a wet cat on 19 April 2012 when she found out Allison was attending the same conference and GBC's hesitancy re TM. I have wondered all along if GBC and his lawyers would try to make TM look like the murderer.

breaking... is it possible for you to describe Toni's voice?? her manner of answering etc??

 

[Neuromancer]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 42s
Mr Byrne: he told you the relationship had to end, you were in love with him and tried to continue it #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Defence: He told you the relationship had to end. Ms McHugh: Yes. #badenclay

OMG is the defence really trying to make out that the affair was totally one-sided?

When we have emails from GBC saying he was leaving his wife for TM, constant phone contact, ongoing regular shaggery, and statements from business partners that he was going around saying he still loved her, even after the public breakup?

*boggle*

 

[BreakingNews]

BBM

What is wrong with these people??! Was that part really necessary or relevant? Don't understand your motivation OW to humiliate Allison posthumously like that.

Camp Chair. The up-side of this is when the prosecutor asked OW a series of questions about the actual timing of the incident and suggested that maybe Allison was pregnant with her second child at the time. OW had nowhere to go with that but to agree.
:jail::jail::jail:

 

[they'll get you]

well. the years that have passed since Alisons murder haven't been kind to Ms McHugh....

and that's a fair comment.

Verrrrry gracious. What she's in her early 40's? Not a winner g. She must have something special. I can't see it maybe she's sitting on her morals.

Ooops that's resting on her laurels.

 

[laserdisc10]

When the other two partners in the business couldn't get straight answers or proper financials from him, combined with his 'shenanigans' (as NBC apparently described it) with TM -- they tried to sell their shares of the business

And when GBC learned of this, he was livid. The disloyalty! The betrayal !

After the partners had escaped, leaving money and all their efforts behind them

GBC contacted one of them, demanding return of the special number-plate he'd previously gifted to his ex-partner

And it will probably all come out at the trial, seeing it's included in statements made to investigators

 

[Liadan]

Please please help me? The guys keep putting double sized photos up of TMCH & I keep loosing my lunch.
Anyone got some windex?

Seriously I'm being effected by the cruelty of these people. I must be wrapped in cotton wool because I never have seen such calculated nastiness.

To say she lost control of her bladder, SO WHAT? Is this meant to dehumanise and discredit Allison?
I love mums how they can have 3 children and pee their pants when they sneeze, laugh or spew.
Us mums are the backbone of society, don't upset this mother bear.
OW you are the one who discredits mums like me I DONT LIKE IT!

You are the BEST! TGY!!! (well ok there are a few that fall into the category here - but IKYKWIM as TM would say.....:great:

 

[Makara]

Whilst Allison may not have been pregnant at that time, she may well have been ill with a gastric bug. Forceful vomiting can and does cause loss of bladder control. This 'tale' was only told to denigrate Allison and give the illusion of vomiting due to anxiety and/or depression. For one who purported to love Allison, this whole episode, if indeed it occurred, would have been well left unsaid. It does nothing to change the fact that Allison was found dead and partially decomposed at the hands of another, some 14kms from her home.

Seriously, if this happened to anyone I was with, I would get them to a hospital or their own doctor, any doctor ASAP. It's just too over the top IMO.