Just reading a few of Hawkins old posts & found these interesting ( wonder what happened to him ??)
Wish he would come back to post his views now!!!!
Old 06-28-2012, 10:47 PM
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I'm sure it's been commented about on the forum before but either the body showed signs of trauma or it wasn't dropped from the bridge. Regardless of decomposition.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:32 AM
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I suspect the alleged cause of death won't involve an escalating dispute leading to sudden lethal violence on that night MOO.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:52 PM
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I'd be surprised if the chipped tooth didn't happen post mortem.
Thanks
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:50 PM
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Yes all good points. It's just a matter of contexts. I am absolutely certain that Harold Holt drowned. That doesn't mean he did. And you are right that the cause of death doesn't need to be proved for a murder charge just to succeed. Only that the accused was responsible for the death.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:39 PM
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Medical evidence is only part of the mix when determining cause of death for the purpose of coronial inquests and criminal proceedings. Other forensic and circumstantial evidence can be very compelling to the point of virtual certainty. Harold Holt's body was never found, but he drowned nevertheless. A clear and evidence based cause of death will be asserted in this case.
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:11 PM
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Lunch with some very experienced criminal lawyers today. Three interesting things. They speculated and gossiped about this case. They whinged about the press doing exactly that. Consensus was based on evidence released so far a conviction would be far from certain. None have any connection with this matter.
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Love this quote!!
Old 06-14-2012, 08:00 PM
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COD? Well the coppers reckon her husband is a murderer and the press say he was having an affair. So if they are correct, then the cause of her death was marrying a bloke she thought was decent but who was in fact a murderous, philandering ratbag. Simple logic.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:43 PM
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I have to go to bed but just wanted to say to those who have left flowers etc that you are awesome human beings to care so genuinely for this woman and her family. I suspect that you'll be able to at least see that some justice is done in this case. There will be a trial and conviction(s) eventually IMO. MOO.
Thanks
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:08 PM
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I have been very impressed by the restraint and grace shown by Mr and Mrs Dickie. If a man (hypothetically speaking) strangled my daughter, and mother of my granddaughters, then dumped her body in a creek to bloat and rot like some fetid animal carcass, then he would need to pray as earnestly as he could every day that the police would arrest him and lock him away in a safe and secure remand centre as soon as possible.
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05-27-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangeworld View Post
But IMO, anyone can give a good speech using the right formula.
In my personal life I judge a person's character by what they do. It's hard for people to say exactly what they think and feel. Even if you consciously attempt to be totally frank, your subconscious has a huge bearing on the words you choose, on how you say them and on your body language. Skilled detectives seem to have almost a sixth sense for knowing not just when a person is lying, but what that person's body is saying.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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I believe that there are some further significant details about this death emerging. It seems to be a particularly nasty and confronting matter. Not the sort of case that would be pleasant for jurors.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox11 View Post
The mind boggles. I bet we will have to wait years for all the details to come out in court.
Very few details are likely to come out in court if it becomes a murder trial. The accused very rarely gives any oral evidence in such a trial and will therefore not be cross-examined or even speak in court beyond entering a plea. There would only be the assertions of the Crown based on what they can piece together. If the case is largely circumstantial then the prosecution doesn't even really produce a theory as to what actually happened beyond the simple assertion that the accused caused the death of the deceased. If there is a plea of guilty then there is no trial and, since the penalty is mandatory, there is no need for the convicted person to then say anything at the sentence hearing.
If it becomes a manslaughter trial then the Crown simply has to prove that the accused caused the death and very few details are required for that. A guilty plea is very common to mansluaghter because that plea will ordinarily reduce the sentence by 30%. A guilty plea to murder is cery uncommon, because there is no sentence discount for the plea.
The circumstances of this lady's death will likely never be known. Even if an accused person makes some sort of admission these are usually motivated by a desire to mitigate a manslaughter sentence and are therefore self-serving and somewhat unreliable.
But the public apetite for more details is usually inversely proportional to how many are available. This is the sort of case that will spawn books and significant profits for publishers. None of those profits are likely to make their way to the children which is a great pity.
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By far the best post
Old 05-14-2012, 09:05 PM
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Do not friggin start me. The objectification of women is a vestigial sociological imperative that is well past its use-by-date. Women have been commodities in the physical, emotional and spiritual sense for many thousands of years. Very few people really appreciate the depth to which these subservient roles are ingrained. Violence towards women is still at epidemic levels in our community and this violence is not specific to any demographic. The levels of child sex abuse, especially against girls is a national disgrace. Emotional violence and intimidation starts from a very young age and many, many men humiliate their wives and female relatives without any sense that they are doing so. Any man who thinks that Australia is a society which has turned the corner and which provides equal expectations and opportunities for women should experience life from a woman's perspective for a while. Boys need to be exposed to male role models who treat women as human beings, not as some other species who they should look after and 'respect'. Respect is a human right, not a right that you get by being a woman. Women are not furniture, they are not fashion accessories, they are not property, they are not investments. They are not cute things that you have a duty to look after like a pet. Violence against, and the objectification of, women is a deep social problem that is only vaguely recognised and addressed despite ridiculous claims that women are now somehow mostly 'equal'. If Mrs Baden Clay has died as the result of domestic or partner violence then hopefully the result will be something more than a shallow sense of satisfaction that her 'killer' is broughtto justice. All men need to look at their own hearts and their own values and ask what their potential is to act in the same way as her killer(s). We should all look at her death and ask how we collectively failed her and what we can do to empower our daughters to ensure that they do not suffer a similar fate. I am a man.
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