The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

[Consider]

Following photo was taken on the day Allison's body was positively identified. "Himself" was on way to his lawyers in the photo taken that day.....

May 01, 2012

A WOMAN'S body found on a creek bank in Brisbane's west has been identified as that of missing mum Allison Baden-Clay.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226343926997

There really are no words are there.

People who barely knew Allison but lived in the area would have gripped someone or something nearby to stop from dropping or from sudden wave of dizziness.

He doesn't even require someone to walk with him for support.

Not cool as a cucumber : cold as a fish.

 

[laserdisc10]

I wonder how Pastor Walton-Baden-Walton-Clay is going with preparing his next sermon to a bewildered congregation. Remember way back the email he sent to his parishoners about how they are going to be hearing a lot of dreadful untruths.........I am imagining him tweeting the trial word for word to his congregation until getting to the bit where Gerard asks the prosecutor how much sordid detail he is expected to give and he suddenly realises and rereads what he has tweeted.....

To be suspected is that's the least of his worries these days

 

[catswhiskers]

Does anyone know whether or not Fuller was able to read the Mr Mom blog aloud in it's entirety - or was he pulled up early on? I thought I had read someone saying that at least the jury got to hear it, but can't be sure. He might have been prevented from using it any further, and perhaps the jury was told to disregard it, but it would still be interesting to know if it was put out there - at least to the extent that it illustrated a possible glaring contradiction to GBC's testimony about who did what around the house.

 

[laserdisc10]

There really are no words are there.

People who barely knew Allison but lived in the area would have gripped someone or something nearby to stop from dropping or from sudden wave of dizziness.

He doesn't even require someone to walk with him for support.

Not cool as a cucumber : cold as a fish.

Are those dollar signs I see in those eyes?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

They haven't found Kylie Laboutcherie s body either, but Paul Wilkinson sits in a cell and will be there for the rest of his life..

Same with Peter Falconio, no body, but Murdoch sits in prison.

 

[Trooper]

I should clarify - When I say it always goes in their favour, I don't mean that they are always acquitted. The defence just has far more room to restructure their argument than the prosecution. Plus in a case like this any retrial is likely to be judge only which most believe assists the defendant. This a concern I have with the Cowan conviction, the media releasing details of his abhorrent past has put paid to a trial by jury if a retrial is ordered on appeal.

Didn't work for Raymond Caroll either, in the murder of the baby Dierdre Kennedy.. in fact, the law was changed precisely so that Carroll could be tried for the third time for the murder..


Carrol was found guilty.

http://www.mako.org.au/unsolved-murders-Deidre-Kennedy.html

 

[Susan12]

I think let's break the evidence down.

Scratches on the face. Did not have them the day before. GBC says caused by razor. Experts confirm look like fingernail scratches and implausible to be razor cuts. Summary view. GBC lying to hide how he really got them. Supports prosecutions case.

Plants in her hair. Hair was freshly done that night so could not have gotten them in her hair before that night. Plants not found in he creek area and the botanist checked several times over different times of year. Plants found in their garden. No alternative explanation for how they would get into her hair. Summary view. supports prosecutions case.

Blood in the car. Blood is confirmed as Allison's. Have had the car for 8 weeks so a recent bleed. GBC confirms she has no recent injuries and did not complain of bleeding in the car. Blood is of a reasonable amount. Blood is found in a location not usual to expect she'd have spilt blood. No alternative for how blood would have gotten there. summary view, supports prosecutions case.

Autopsy report. No broken bones indicating no significant fall. No fatal levels of drugs supporting no drug overdose. No signs of gun shot wounds, etc. No signs of cause of death matching those that would indicate self harm. Supports prosecutions case death was cause by another.

Location body was found. Body was not found at or near the home. Victim did not get there by car. Route from home to location is difficult to walk as a main road no one walks and far on foot. Chance of not being seen walking given the heavy use of the road is small. Body was found in a location that was effectively hidden. Summary view supports prosecutions case that she was out there by someone else.

Motive. Yes motive. Was not in love with wife. Admits this. Financial pressure. Relationship pressure. Two women could have met the next day and lots of calls that evening from the mistress due to that (increased number of calls from normal) = timing. Had motive in either in a premeditated or 'he snapped' scenario.

Opportunity = yes. Last to see her alive. Alone in house with her aside from kids who were asleep.

Alternative scenarios...
Crime related... Not involved in criminal activity. No.
Stranger... No sexual abuse. nothing stolen. Defence did not suggest. No.
Accident... Causes of death most likely associated with an accident were ruled out. If she had fatally injured herself on her normal walk she'd have been found around Brookfield on that route no so many km away. They searched Brookfield extensively that day and the next few, even before the rain came.
Suicide... Multiple doctors indicate was doing well and never was suicidal. Put up hand for help when needed it so never kept it a secret from doctors to suggest she was suffering more than mentioned. No tablets in stomach. No drugs at fatal levels even though they can concentrate more after death. Methods people use to suicide pretty much ruled out in autopsy. Fall, drugs, hanging, etc. reasons to live - girls, apparently thought affair was over and they were working on it, plans for the next day
mistress... Seemed to go after gerard not Allison when unhappy. Thought gerard was leaving Allison for her so no pressing need to take Allison out of the picture. Alibi I gather?

Consider also most women who are murdered are killed by their partners.

No alternative that is convincing and not when considered against the evidence. Surely the jury would think guilty?? They don't have to see him do it or know cause of death, if what they know it's not, gives them the answer hey?

 

[JCB]

Hi everyone

I agree the tweets are great and of course better than not having them. However I can't help but feel the cross examination is either missing the punchy comebacks or they are just not being reported/tweeted.

Does anyone know if court transcripts are publicly available and are these available now or just after the trial?

Thanks
Mrs SL

Transcripts, for a fee, are available after completion of the trial.

 

[Trooper]

There really are no words are there.

People who barely knew Allison but lived in the area would have gripped someone or something nearby to stop from dropping or from sudden wave of dizziness.

He doesn't even require someone to walk with him for support.

Not cool as a cucumber : cold as a fish.

and you know what?? that shirt doesn't look ironed, to me. .

 

[Trooper]

I should clarify - When I say it always goes in their favour, I don't mean that they are always acquitted. The defence just has far more room to restructure their argument than the prosecution. Plus in a case like this any retrial is likely to be judge only which most believe assists the defendant. This a concern I have with the Cowan conviction, the media releasing details of his abhorrent past has put paid to a trial by jury if a retrial is ordered on appeal.

a judge only trial didn't help Simon Gittany..

guilty as charged.

 

[JCB]

Didn't work for Raymond Caroll either, in the murder of the baby Dierdre Kennedy.. in fact, the law was changed precisely so that Carroll could be tried for the third time for the murder..


Carrol was found guilty.

http://www.mako.org.au/unsolved-murders-Deidre-Kennedy.html

He was acquitted on appeal after a retrial, he was not tried for a 3rd time.

 

[laserdisc10]

I should clarify - When I say it always goes in their favour, I don't mean that they are always acquitted. The defence just has far more room to restructure their argument than the prosecution. Plus in a case like this any retrial is likely to be judge only which most believe assists the defendant. This a concern I have with the Cowan conviction, the media releasing details of his abhorrent past has put paid to a trial by jury if a retrial is ordered on appeal.

It's Cowan's abhorrent past. It happened. He did it. And nincompoops on a parole board twice turned him loose so he could do it again -- which he did, in escalated form

Who would dare order a retrial, as you put it? Who would dare bait the Aussie public again by even hinting Cowan aka Cohen should ever again see the outside of a cage?

Politicians are forced to court a modicum of public goodwill. They're mindful of where their bread is buttered

If GBC is convicted as I'm sure he will be, it will be politicians who prevail upon the legal fraternity to quash any attempts by GBC or any of his funny-handshake mates to spring him inside 20 years. After all, no-one's forgotten the fact that GBC was grooming politicians in preparation for his fantasised career in politics

 

[JCB]

a judge only trial didn't help Simon Gittany..

guilty as charged.

Ugh.... I never said that acquittal is inevitable, only that retrials and bench trials favour the defendant, and they do.

 

[McCoy]

you've obviously out some thought into this so I'm taking your post seriously but in all honesty I don't get how this could be a realistic possibility.

Speaking as someone from Brisbane's west, it's not cold enough out here in April to die of hypothermia even if not moving around. It's colder out here in Winter but paradoxically it's warmer out here in summer and we still get the warm weather in April. If she was stuck out here and cold there'd be traffic coming past or homes she could go to for assistance rather than freezing.

As a theory it also wouldn't explain why Allison would be out this way. She wouldn't just decide to walk there, and it'd take ages, and she'd be seen. It's not near to her house foot wise. What would be the purpose for being there?

I agree, I remember that actual night very well. I was up all night (outside) with a sick animal and I got a bit cool but a jacket was enough. My friends came out to see if I was OK and if I was a bit nervous, I remember saying "No I'm fine, Brookfield is a really safe place" Meanwhile, 1 km away....
There was also no moon, very dark

 

[laserdisc10]

Does anyone know whether or not Fuller was able to read the Mr Mom blog aloud in it's entirety - or was he pulled up early on? I thought I had read someone saying that at least the jury got to hear it, but can't be sure. He might have been prevented from using it any further, and perhaps the jury was told to disregard it, but it would still be interesting to know if it was put out there - at least to the extent that it illustrated a possible glaring contradiction to GBC's testimony about who did what around the house.

Good questions, Catswhiskers

I'd like to know too

 

[Trooper]

He was acquitted on appeal after a retrial, he was not tried for a 3rd time.

he was aquitted of perjury.. that is correct. I was incorrect about the 3rd trial for murder.


terrible stuff..

 

[Snails]

Does anyone know whether or not Fuller was able to read the Mr Mom blog aloud in it's entirety - or was he pulled up early on? I thought I had read someone saying that at least the jury got to hear it, but can't be sure. He might have been prevented from using it any further, and perhaps the jury was told to disregard it, but it would still be interesting to know if it was put out there - at least to the extent that it illustrated a possible glaring contradiction to GBC's testimony about who did what around the house.

I believe Fuller was pulled up. What then followed was legal argument. Can anyone confirm?

 

[JCB]

It's Cowan's abhorrent past. It happened. He did it. And nincompoops on a parole board twice turned him loose so he could do it again -- which he did, in escalated form

Who would dare order a retrial, as you put it? Who would dare bait the Aussie public again by even hinting Cowan aka Cohen should ever again see the outside of a cage?

Politicians are forced to court a modicum of public goodwill. They're mindful of where their bread is buttered

If GBC is convicted as I'm sure he will be, it will be politicians who prevail upon the legal fraternity to quash any attempts by GBC or any of his funny-handshake mates to spring him inside 20 years. After all, no-one's forgotten the fact that GBC was grooming politicians in preparation for his fantasised career in politics

Well I don't want to go off topic for fear of a mod slap so will be brief.

Due process must be followed, even for loathsome individuals such as Cowan. It is one of the cornerstones of civilised society.

The Court of Appeal Justices will be the ones who, in the absence of a High Court challenge, will decide if Cowan is to face a retrial. If Cowan's conviction is overturned on appeal (unlikely, but possible) then the media saturation would ensure that he could not possibly obtain a fair hearing by jury and it is inevitable in my opinion that an application for a bench trial would be successful. It would not be the Judiciary "baiting" anyone, it would be acknowledgement that he did not get a fair trial in accordance with Queensland law, nothing more.

 

[JK673]

I believe Fuller was pulled up. What then followed was legal argument. Can anyone confirm?

That is right but noone found out what that argument was

 

[Neuromancer]

No blood gases after 11 days, NM. At least, none that would have the slightest meaning.

Right, yeah. Was trying to make sense of what they'd be referring to in that article - isn't all PM blood going to have elevated CO2? And isn't it just going to keep going up until the cells run out of O2 to metabolise?