Oh and yes I walk when it's dark. Or there's no chance to do it in winter.
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The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 7th July - Trial Day 15
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Oh and yes I walk when it's dark. Or there's no chance to do it in winter.
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Bobbie Elliott
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Why on earth would Allison take her Zoloft/Sertraline at 10 or 11 pm?? It's recommended to be taken in the morning because it can have a slightly stimulating effect, which could interfere with the person's ability to get to sleep. However, in the morning, this property can help the person get going. Also, more importantly, a usual symptom of depression is diurnal variation of mood which means that the person feels most depressed in the morning and least depressed in the evening.
Oz Jen
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Thanks Marly, that's exactly what I thought too.
I guess I am fairly tall with a long stride.. My family and friends always complain I walk too quickly!
But I completely agree, she wouldn't have been focused on a weight loss power walk for 3 hours prior to a conference that required that she leave the house by 7am.
And if she was suicidal as the Defence is suggesting, then surely weight loss would not have been her goal. Distress and disorientation is what they suggest. Hardly lends itself to a huge 14km walk.
The defendant's statement to police was that he cut himself shaving because he was "in a rush". Specifically, he said that ordinarily on a Friday he met with his sales team and they went and had a look at properties they had listed for sale. He said that ordinarily that meeting would be at 8.30am, so he needed to be available to do the "school run and everything with the kids".
But he said they changed that plan because Allison and Kate Rankin were going to the seminar that particular Friday.
So he admitted to the police that he did not have any set appointments that morning.
He had also called his father to mind the children while he searched for Allison, and his sister ended up taking the children to school. So he didn't have any pressing urgency to "do the school run and everything with the kids".
He had no particular reason to be rushing to get himself shaved to present at work at a business he runs with his wife, who happened to have gone missing that morning. He could have told his office manager he was dealing with a personal matter and would not be in until later (if at all), then greeted the police in tracky dacks and a five o'clock shadow, if need be.
So why the mad rush to get himself ready such that he sliced his face to pieces with a blunt razor?
I really think the defence focused on persuading the jury not to convict on the basis of the cuts because they are the strongest evidence against the defendant. The cuts appeared on the defendant's face between the time Allison was last seen alive and the time she was reported missing, they are inconsistent with the defendant's account of them being shaving cuts, and the defendant's account as to why he was rushing to shave with a blunt razor is implausible.
But he said they changed that plan because Allison and Kate Rankin were going to the seminar that particular Friday.
So he admitted to the police that he did not have any set appointments that morning.
He had also called his father to mind the children while he searched for Allison, and his sister ended up taking the children to school. So he didn't have any pressing urgency to "do the school run and everything with the kids".
He had no particular reason to be rushing to get himself shaved to present at work at a business he runs with his wife, who happened to have gone missing that morning. He could have told his office manager he was dealing with a personal matter and would not be in until later (if at all), then greeted the police in tracky dacks and a five o'clock shadow, if need be.
So why the mad rush to get himself ready such that he sliced his face to pieces with a blunt razor?
I really think the defence focused on persuading the jury not to convict on the basis of the cuts because they are the strongest evidence against the defendant. The cuts appeared on the defendant's face between the time Allison was last seen alive and the time she was reported missing, they are inconsistent with the defendant's account of them being shaving cuts, and the defendant's account as to why he was rushing to shave with a blunt razor is implausible.
Crime and punishment
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Ashton Ward was called to discuss his video footage of the rise and fall of Kholo Creek. Defence was trying to prove that the crepe myrtle floated down the creek into Allison's hair. Ashton Ward is the director of a Brisbane company Khemistry. See link.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ve-coverage-day-14-week-4-20140702-3b76w.html
Wait! When Dad has a position on the P&C, it wouldn't be unusual for him to be the one to attend the PT interviews in my experience. My Grandfather was President of the P&C so he went to everything. For our kids, we both go. There have been occasions when my husband couldn't attend, maybe twice that I recall, but I went. We try to go to most things or ensure one of is there at least. He's gone to sporting events that I haven't though and I've gone to other things he hasn't. We don't keep score but assume it works out about even anyway.
Freya1977
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Personally I take mine at around 11pm. It doesn't have the stimulant effect on me so I just take it before bed. It just depends on the person.
Her Honour
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I can understand how some view the legal profession, I really can.
However, it's just offensive to state that Byrne QC does it for the money and equate him with an alleged murderer. I can assure you, he could have been making a HECK of a lot more money being engaged in a matter other than this.
Also, the vast majority of lawyers at this level see it as a true vocation. As the saying goes, somebody's gotta do it. Otherwise, we'd be reading about GBC's Inquisition.
DunnoZo
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and she was stuck in traffic. She called hairdresser to say she was.
enthralled
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I can do 5km in approx. 45 minutes but that is fairly flat, the hills would be very minor and I am putting in effort
TootsieFootsie
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I know the hairdressers was a freebie, but just had a thought. Did she pay for something extra to be done to her hair that wasn't included ?
Also I thought she was supposed to only have $20 in her account and didn't GBC say they were "on the bones of their arse?
Also I thought she was supposed to only have $20 in her account and didn't GBC say they were "on the bones of their arse?
Brightbird
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I took my anti-depressant at night because that seemed to be the only time I could remember to do it. I've tried two and both said take in the morning because of the stimulating effect. But I found no stimulating effects from them. What I don't get is why they are suggesting Allison suddenly overdosed on a medication she'd taken for years. It comes across to me like they are suggesting a scenario where she took her usual dose and became disorientated. That's really reaching imo.
enthralled
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You have totally misunderstood what I was trying to get at. Excuse me for not explaining it properly. I do not view Byrne and gbc in the same way. Suppose you cant please everyone in how you word things
Aliwonders
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What a terrible thing to add the joyous birth of this little boy into this story and make his birth a reason why his Aunty may have taken her life. Talk about damaging kids from the day of their birth. I believe that Allison would have been excited about the birth of this little boy and since her youngest was now 5 the whole not having a son would have been well passed over by the fact that she herself had 3 gorgeous little girls to teach to dance!!!!
Wow! I know someone who had something so similar happen..was this brisbane by any chance? Can't believe the audacity of thieves...but also how much we can miss when we are asleep!
Amee
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4.40pm: Mr Byrne took the jury to the evidence of GP, Dr Candice Beavan, who agreed in cross-examination the marks she saw on Baden-Clay’s face looked similar to injuries that would be seen in a shave biopsy.
He said a second GP, Dr Renu Kumar said the marks on the right cheek of the accused may have been caused by a razor although she could not be “100 per cent sure” either way.
Mr Byrne said Dr Robert Hoskins gave evidence to say “it was impossible” for him to say the marks on the face were caused by fingernails.
He asked the jury to consider the evidence of Dr Margaret Stark who said the only people who know how the injuries were caused was the people present.
He said the jury may think the injuries were likely caused by something other than a razor but that was not their role.
“Your role is whether the Crown excludes beyond a reasonable doubt that they weren’t caused by a razor,” he said.
Mr Byrne said if the jury was not satisfied they were caused by something other than shaving marks, that was the end of their relevance.
He said the jury had to bear in mind the scratches did not and could not by themselves convict Baden-Clay of murder.
Mr Byrne said it was his submission the jury could not be satisfied razor scrapes could be excluded.
He took the jury to the scenarios the pathologist Dr Nathan Milne raised as to possible causes of death.
They included that Ms Baden-Clay drowned; fell from a height or into water and drowned; died of alcohol or sertraline toxicity; or that she suffered the effects of “serotonin syndrome” which led to drowning or falling from a height to her death.
Mr Byrne asked the jury whether there was evidence of Ms Baden-Clay’s “worsening mental health” leading up to her disappearance.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
He said a second GP, Dr Renu Kumar said the marks on the right cheek of the accused may have been caused by a razor although she could not be “100 per cent sure” either way.
Mr Byrne said Dr Robert Hoskins gave evidence to say “it was impossible” for him to say the marks on the face were caused by fingernails.
He asked the jury to consider the evidence of Dr Margaret Stark who said the only people who know how the injuries were caused was the people present.
He said the jury may think the injuries were likely caused by something other than a razor but that was not their role.
“Your role is whether the Crown excludes beyond a reasonable doubt that they weren’t caused by a razor,” he said.
Mr Byrne said if the jury was not satisfied they were caused by something other than shaving marks, that was the end of their relevance.
He said the jury had to bear in mind the scratches did not and could not by themselves convict Baden-Clay of murder.
Mr Byrne said it was his submission the jury could not be satisfied razor scrapes could be excluded.
He took the jury to the scenarios the pathologist Dr Nathan Milne raised as to possible causes of death.
They included that Ms Baden-Clay drowned; fell from a height or into water and drowned; died of alcohol or sertraline toxicity; or that she suffered the effects of “serotonin syndrome” which led to drowning or falling from a height to her death.
Mr Byrne asked the jury whether there was evidence of Ms Baden-Clay’s “worsening mental health” leading up to her disappearance.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
Amee
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He said she was experiencing negative self-esteem, a negative outlook and transient suicidal thoughts when visiting Dr Tom George for the first time in 2003.
He said the jury heard evidence that a mother’s maternal attachment was usually a protective factor against suicide.
“Gerard doesn’t know what happened to Allison that night, the next morning, but it’s important for you to understand the assessments by various mental professionals as to what her mental health had been,” he said.
He took the jury to the evidence of Ms Baden-Clay’s general practitioner in 2011 when she complained of experiencing guilt, low mood and feeling teary.
He said that during her most recent visit with Dr Nicholas Bourke, Ms Baden-Clay was experiencing “bad premenstrual mood swings” and her Zoloft dosage was increased from 50mg to 100mg on March 19, 2012.
Mr Byrne said psychologist Rosamund Nutting has sessions with both the accused and his wife from October through to December, 2011.
He said the evidence from Ms Nutting was that Ms Baden-Clay experienced hyper-vigilance and self-esteem problems on discovering the affair between her husband and Toni McHugh.
He told the jury Ms Nutting testified that Ms Baden-Clay experienced flashbacks of seeing Ms McHugh’s car at the gym, for example, and she became quite fragile.
Mr Byrne said it was in that context the jury heard evidence from Relationships Australia counsellor Carmel Ritchie.
Ms Ritchie had a session with Ms Baden-Clay and a follow-up session with the couple on April 16, 2012.
He said Ms Ritchie noted that Ms Baden-Clay was a “conflict avoider”.
Mr Byrne said Ms Ritchie made no enquiries into whether Ms Baden-Clay had ever been diagnosed with mental health problems or medications she was on.
He said Ms Baden-Clay told Ms Ritchie she was “feeling inadequate, not good enough”.
He said Ms Ritchie testified the affair was having an impact on Ms Baden-Clay and she recommended they spoke together for 15 minutes each night so she could express her feelings to her husband.
Mr Byrne said Ms Ritchie did not know Ms Baden-Clay was on 100mg of Zoloft a day and had been experiencing flash backs when she recommended the exercise to the couple.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
He said the jury heard evidence that a mother’s maternal attachment was usually a protective factor against suicide.
“Gerard doesn’t know what happened to Allison that night, the next morning, but it’s important for you to understand the assessments by various mental professionals as to what her mental health had been,” he said.
He took the jury to the evidence of Ms Baden-Clay’s general practitioner in 2011 when she complained of experiencing guilt, low mood and feeling teary.
He said that during her most recent visit with Dr Nicholas Bourke, Ms Baden-Clay was experiencing “bad premenstrual mood swings” and her Zoloft dosage was increased from 50mg to 100mg on March 19, 2012.
Mr Byrne said psychologist Rosamund Nutting has sessions with both the accused and his wife from October through to December, 2011.
He said the evidence from Ms Nutting was that Ms Baden-Clay experienced hyper-vigilance and self-esteem problems on discovering the affair between her husband and Toni McHugh.
He told the jury Ms Nutting testified that Ms Baden-Clay experienced flashbacks of seeing Ms McHugh’s car at the gym, for example, and she became quite fragile.
Mr Byrne said it was in that context the jury heard evidence from Relationships Australia counsellor Carmel Ritchie.
Ms Ritchie had a session with Ms Baden-Clay and a follow-up session with the couple on April 16, 2012.
He said Ms Ritchie noted that Ms Baden-Clay was a “conflict avoider”.
Mr Byrne said Ms Ritchie made no enquiries into whether Ms Baden-Clay had ever been diagnosed with mental health problems or medications she was on.
He said Ms Baden-Clay told Ms Ritchie she was “feeling inadequate, not good enough”.
He said Ms Ritchie testified the affair was having an impact on Ms Baden-Clay and she recommended they spoke together for 15 minutes each night so she could express her feelings to her husband.
Mr Byrne said Ms Ritchie did not know Ms Baden-Clay was on 100mg of Zoloft a day and had been experiencing flash backs when she recommended the exercise to the couple.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
Amee
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He said they went on to discuss intimate details of where the accused had sex with his mistress in the days that followed.
“There had been, despite Ms Ritchie’s best intentions, confrontational questioning of Gerard Baden-Clay on the 18th and follow-up questions on the 19th of that affair,” Mr Byrne said.
He took the jury to the evidence of defence witness and forensic psychiatrist Dr Michael Schramm, who said it was possible Ms Baden-Clay was experiencing a relapse of her depressive symptoms at the time.
Mr Byrne said the jury heard evidence that Ms Baden-Clay wanted to give her husband a son when on April 18, 2012, her husband’s brother announced the birth of his new son in Canada.
He said Ms Baden-Clay went to work the next day, had a full day, and presented to the hairdresser that afternoon as “a bit stressed” on April 19, 2012.
She said Ms Baden-Clay did not speak much and replied that she was still sick and did not seem surprised it was not going away.
Mr Byrne took the jury to the evidence of defence witness and toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson, who said sertraline had some side-effects while sertraline syndrome could occur in a regular user and have an effect on the brain chemistry to increase both the positive and adverse effects.
Mr Byrne said Dr Schramm told the jury there was a link between major depression and suicide.
He said it was Dr Schramm’s evidence was that people did not always leave a note and suicide was impossible to predict.
Mr Byrne said the accused had told them he did not know what happened to his wife.
“Can I ask you to consider this against the background of the evidence we’ve just been discussing: the evidence of Priscilla Dickie, of Nigel Baden-Clay and Gerard Baden-Clay, was that Allison always wanted a son,” he said.
Mr Byrne said the boy born to Baden-Clay’s brother on April 18, 2012.
He said Dr George confirmed Ms Baden-Clay wanted a son. He said she took her 100mg dose of Zoloft the next day and if she was feeling low or depressed, he told her she could increase her dosage.
Dr Schramm said the medication peaked at around 6 to 8 hours, roughly the time when she went to the hairdressers, Mr Byrne said.
Mr Byrne asked why a mother would book a hairdresser’s appointment at the same time as a parent teacher interview
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
“There had been, despite Ms Ritchie’s best intentions, confrontational questioning of Gerard Baden-Clay on the 18th and follow-up questions on the 19th of that affair,” Mr Byrne said.
He took the jury to the evidence of defence witness and forensic psychiatrist Dr Michael Schramm, who said it was possible Ms Baden-Clay was experiencing a relapse of her depressive symptoms at the time.
Mr Byrne said the jury heard evidence that Ms Baden-Clay wanted to give her husband a son when on April 18, 2012, her husband’s brother announced the birth of his new son in Canada.
He said Ms Baden-Clay went to work the next day, had a full day, and presented to the hairdresser that afternoon as “a bit stressed” on April 19, 2012.
She said Ms Baden-Clay did not speak much and replied that she was still sick and did not seem surprised it was not going away.
Mr Byrne took the jury to the evidence of defence witness and toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson, who said sertraline had some side-effects while sertraline syndrome could occur in a regular user and have an effect on the brain chemistry to increase both the positive and adverse effects.
Mr Byrne said Dr Schramm told the jury there was a link between major depression and suicide.
He said it was Dr Schramm’s evidence was that people did not always leave a note and suicide was impossible to predict.
Mr Byrne said the accused had told them he did not know what happened to his wife.
“Can I ask you to consider this against the background of the evidence we’ve just been discussing: the evidence of Priscilla Dickie, of Nigel Baden-Clay and Gerard Baden-Clay, was that Allison always wanted a son,” he said.
Mr Byrne said the boy born to Baden-Clay’s brother on April 18, 2012.
He said Dr George confirmed Ms Baden-Clay wanted a son. He said she took her 100mg dose of Zoloft the next day and if she was feeling low or depressed, he told her she could increase her dosage.
Dr Schramm said the medication peaked at around 6 to 8 hours, roughly the time when she went to the hairdressers, Mr Byrne said.
Mr Byrne asked why a mother would book a hairdresser’s appointment at the same time as a parent teacher interview
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605
BreakingNews
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Enthralled, I total agree. I can't remember if Legal Aid is paying - think I read somewhere that it wasn't - but as you say, Byrne is doing this for money. That's his job. Yep, not much to go on.
I was on a jury not long ago where the prosecution had zilch to go on - all the jury agreed it should never have gone to court. He made a real dill out of himself trying to find something to say when there was nothing to say. Seemed like he was helping the defence. We said not guilty.
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