The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17

[kiwijayne]

Well Mr Fuller is a very eloquent speaker. Thanks for speaking up for Allison. It was an interesting day in court.

Also good to put some faces to names.

 

[BrissyLass]

I'm a long way behind I know. Did you faint? I would have fainted.....

:floorlaugh:

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 3m

Judge says Dr George had no concerns that Allison was suicidal. #badenclay

Judge says Dr George said Allison presented as extremely attached to her children. #badenclay

Judge is now referring to evidence from Dr Lumsden, who believed Allison's risk of suicide was absolutely zero. #badenclay

Judge is now referring to evidence from Dr Bourke, who prescribed Allison Zoloft, spoke to her about stress over affair. #badenclay

 

[toe]

Me again The man many of you love to hate!

Kidding aside, while my opinion on the likely verdict hasn't changed, if he is indeed convicted I will say that I will lose no sleep over it whatsoever. Furthermore I was earlier concerned about a potential appealable error but after hearing more, my fears have been allayed. I'd still expect an appeal of course, it is almost inevitable in cases with mandatory life imprisonment but nothing absolutely stands out as reason for worry (in my non verified expert opinion).

I am however particularly concerned with the Crown's failure to adequately address how the blood came to be in the Captiva and the lack of plant material present. It is my (again, non verified expert) belief that the Crown's case becomes defective if they cannot establish that Alison was bundled into the Captiva postmortem and driven out to where she was ultimately discovered. The Crown did not (could not?) offer, at least to me, a reasonable and logical explanation as to how Allison's blood came to be in the car. There were no obvious wounds which would be consistent with what appears to be a not insignificant amount of blood, I guess one could make the argument that it could have been a facial wound which from what I can gather, would have been hard to identify after her discovery but even this possibility was not raised. As for the lack of plant material, the Crown has conceded that there was no evidence of a clean up and offered only the positioning of the toys as "odd".

Given that nobody heard or saw GBC leaving their residence, in transit to KCB, at the scene itself or returning home it must surely mean that Crown relies exclusively on the Captiva evidence which I fear is lacking to the extent that it is likely the undoing of the Crown case.

Quickly before court once again resumes, I have 2 questions that I would invite opinion on.

1. Why was Kholo Creek chosen when there are numerous secluded and rugged areas closer to the BC residence which are accessed along much less heavily trafficed roads? I am not a local but I do know the area fairly well, there are numerous areas within perhaps a 10 minute radius where a body may never even be found. It is odd that he took the chance to travel perhaps twice that distance, along much busier roads.

2. The prosecution alleges that Allison was dragged down an embankment, placed on a ledge and rolled off. Why is this the case when, not 20 metres away, GBC could have stopped the car momentarily on the bridge, removed Allison from the boot and thrown her into the middle of the river which at the time was within an hour either side of high tide and so would have been likely to sweep Allison's body away into the Brisbane River as the tide ebbed, possibly never to be seen again. Not only would this seem (to me) to be the most obvious and efficient method, it would have taken mere seconds whereas physically taking her down the embankment, at least partially, must have taken some minutes (not to mention greatly increasing the chance of GBC dragging some evidence of being in that location back into the car with him). The only possible reason that I can come up with, and I feel like I'm grasping at straws in the context of the evidence, is that he wanted her found which would indicate obvious premeditation and scope for perhaps a harsher penalty than the 15 year minimum which (in my opinion only) would seem likely otherwise.

Perhaps he didn't travel back home in the Captiva, he was transported back in a 2nd vehicle and the clothes and shoes he had on were removed and dumped.

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m

Judge says Dr Bourke's opinion was that she was not at risk of suicide. #badenclay

Judge is now talking about Ms Nutting, a psychologist who saw both Gerard and Allison. #badenclay

Judge says Ms Nutting spoke to Allison of panic attacks during second pregnancy. #badenclay

Judge says when Ms Nutting saw Allison at first, she was not experiencing depression symptoms. #badenclay

Judge says second appointment, after affair discovered, Allison was more fragile. Better at third appointment. #badenclay

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 43s

Judge is referring to evidence of defence witness Dr Schramm. Says he referred to reports, had not interviewed anyone. #badenclay

Judge says Dr Schramm said people with depression more likely to commit suicide and don't always leave a note. #badenclay

 

[drsleuth]

oops missed the start back :blushing:

Amee are you happy to continue? I can do them if you like?

 

[Amee]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 1m

Justice Byrne is relaying to the jury the medical opinions of Allison's doctors, psychiatrists and counsellors. #badenclay

 

[Trooper]

'second appointment, after affair discovered, Allison was more fragile.'



Gerard wanted Alison fragile...

 

[Amee]

oops missed the start back :blushing:

Amee are you happy to continue? I can do them if you like?

LOL I was hoping you werent far away, go for it Sleuth

 

[KG1]

a new charge of interfering with a corpse { not murder or manslaughter ] against a third party that is a completely new defendant and completely NEW charge . putting it simply nbc helping him with the body

His brother was in Australia at the time, wasn't he? Or what about one of the friends?

 

[drsleuth]

Ok napping on the job!

 

[Amee]

2:32pm: Court has resumed.

Justice john Byrne has turned his attention to the issue of Mrs Baden-Clay's history of depression.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-17-week-5-20140709-3bluf.html#ixzz36wW7VeLk

 

[Aliwonders]

Me again The man many of you love to hate!

K

2. The prosecution alleges that Allison was dragged down an embankment, placed on a ledge and rolled off. Why is this the case when, not 20 metres away, GBC could have stopped the car momentarily on the bridge, removed Allison from the boot and thrown her into the middle of the river which at the time was within an hour either side of high tide and so would have been likely to sweep Allison's body away into the Brisbane River as the tide ebbed, possibly never to be seen again. Not only would this seem (to me) to be the most obvious and efficient method, it would have taken mere seconds whereas physically taking her down the embankment, at least partially, must have taken some minutes (not to mention greatly increasing the chance of GBC dragging some evidence of being in that location back into the car with him). The only possible reason that I can come up with, and I feel like I'm grasping at straws in the context of the evidence, is that he wanted her found which would indicate obvious premeditation and scope for perhaps a harsher penalty than the 15 year minimum which (in my opinion only) would seem likely otherwise.

I wouldn't be stopping on the bridge. What happens if a car happened by just as you were throwing the body over. That would draw more attention than parking off the road and doing the job in stealth.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 11m
31 face to face conversations between Allison and psychiatrist Dr George from 2003 - Justice Byrne

There is medical and psychological evidence about the deceased's mental state - Justice Byrne

 

[heloise]

I am with you, Inspector. GBC is a proven weakling. I am sure NBC was either at the helm, or came to the rescue after the dastardly dead was done. :gaah:

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 1m

Judge says there is no evidence at all of Allison ever experiencing any adverse reactions to Zoloft. #badenclay

Judge is now referring to evidence from relationship counsellor Carmel Ritchie. #badenclay

Judge says Allison told Ms Ritchie she was a conflict avoider and her husband criticised her parenting skills. #badenclay

Judge says Ms Ritchie spoke to accused alone initially. He told her he wanted to wipe the past clean. #badenclay

 

[Amee]

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 2m

Justice Byrne - there's no indication of Allison Baden-Clay ever indicating she suffered adverse impacts of Zoloft #badenclay

Tessa Scott ‏@TessaScott9 1m

Jury is now hearing a recap of evidence given by Carmel Ritchie from Relationships Australia. @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay

 

[drsleuth]

Judge says Ms Ritchie recommended 15 minute sessions every second night so Allison could talk. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 15s

Judge says Gerard was very resistant to this initially. #badenclay

 

[alioop]

I have been following on and off today as am at a friends house and trying to be social. Have to share that I am sitting under a tree and a caterpillar just fell on my neck. I am taking it as a sign!