The Duct Tape Match #2

[ecs5298]

Not really follower of the duct tape details,

<snipped>

I thought this might interest you HP. Directly from the horses mouth.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2007/research/2007_01_research01.htm

 

[Cayleefan]

Thanks for the link regarding the duct tape. I bookmarked it and will read it later. It looks very interesting.

 

[Rumpole]

I thought this might interest you HP. Directly from the horses mouth.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2007/research/2007_01_research01.htm

Thank you.
Hada quick look and worth keeping as a reference.
We have an expert in the threads somewhere?
I know several WS are onto the duct tape side of this case.

Before I wade thru the reference, does it clarify the loggo question?

 

[JWG]

Welcome.

Not really follower of the duct tape details, but few around to welcome you.

What I get from memory of posts here is this loggo would not be visible unless the outer layer was worn away? It is on the "fabric" under the silver layer. Make any sense?
Keep up the sleuthing, but if you get caught you might have to pay for the roll of tape.

My understanding is that the Henkel logo was seen on the gas can tape as well. So unless the hexane in gas fumes ate the outer layer away...

I was curious about this Henkel logo too. Henkel is a big manufacturer of duct tape, but I am hard pressed to find their logo on any tapes. None in my house. None in the local Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace.

So did KC really get that unlucky so as to purchase (or more likely steal) a rare roll of tape with a logo?

 

[ecs5298]

Thank you.
Hada quick look and worth keeping as a reference.
We have an expert in the threads somewhere?
I know several WS are onto the duct tape side of this case.

Before I wade thru the reference, does it clarify the loggo question?

I just skimmed it so I don't know. I do have some personal experience with tape though. The job I had in high school was working in the warehouse of a company that was a 3M distributor. We also had a small manufacturing wing that made custom tapes and custom wiring harness for circuit boards. Some of the substrates had printing on them that was covered up in the final process. So that's what I am imagining in this case. No proof and I've still been too lazy to go out to the mechanics area here at work looking for duct tape and solvent to run my own experiment.

 

[Rumpole]

I just skimmed it so I don't know. I do have some personal experience with tape though. The job I had in high school was working in the warehouse of a company that was a 3M distributor. We also had a small manufacturing wing that made custom tapes and custom wiring harness for circuit boards. Some of the substrates had printing on them that was covered up in the final process. So that's what I am imagining in this case. No proof and I've still been too lazy to go out to the mechanics area here at work looking for duct tape and solvent to run my own experiment.

From the reference:

Results

Initial macroscopic visual examinations indicated that 5 of the 82 samples in the reference collection had multilayered backings. One backing (Sample 55) was silver-colored on the exposed side and white on the adhesive side, one exhibited printing with product information on one side, and three samples had camouflage print on one side. For the purposes of this paper, samples with printed backings were considered multilayered.

I am still not clear which side, but under adhesive or silver layer.

 

[Rumpole]

Link to some info

 

[FX Wiz]

I thought this might interest you HP. Directly from the horses mouth.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2007/research/2007_01_research01.htm

Thanks for the link. So... the FBI studied 82 rolls of duct tape and only ONE had printing on it. 1 out of 82! They said it was "on one side" and then they said some had camoflauge "on one side". I own a roll of the camoflauge and it's printed on the front side or visible side. I'm getting more convinced that the A's tape had a VISIBLE logo ON it, and this will be projected on a huge screen for all to see, while the jury realizes their own roll in their junk drawer at home has NO logo on it.

 

[ecs5298]

Just for HP I went and grabbed some duct tape and some solvent and disassemble some duct tape. The particular brand is Balkamp sold for NAPA Auto Parts Couldn't find out who really manufactures the tape. So if you ever wondered here's what it looks like

1. HEre's the whole role

2. Here's a strip of the tape intact silver side out an the other side is the adhesive side.

3. Here's the layers separated. The glue has been dissolved, the fabric mesh has been lifted off. The next strip is the inside of the silver part of the tape (what was under the adhesive) I imagine this is what was printed on the Henkel tape. Maybe tomorrow I'll stop at Lowes and buy some "Duck Brand" duct tape and see if it is indeed printed on the inside.

I did manage to work with this tape with Nitrile gloves on. It was a little difficult, especially laying a piece down on the table with the sticky side up. I was able to tear pieces off and applie them to the outside of garbage cans and boxes without too much problems.

 

[Rumpole]

Just for HP I went and grabbed some duct tape and some solvent and disassemble some duct tape. The particular brand is Balkamp sold for NAPA Auto Parts Couldn't find out who really manufactures the tape. So if you ever wondered here's what it looks like

1. HEre's the whole role

2. Here's a strip of the tape intact silver side out an the other side is the adhesive side.

3. Here's the layers separated. The glue has been dissolved, the fabric mesh has been lifted off. The next strip is the inside of the silver part of the tape (what was under the adhesive) I imagine this is what was printed on the Henkel tape. Maybe tomorrow I'll stop at Lowes and buy some "Duck Brand" duct tape and see if it is indeed printed on the inside.

I did manage to work with this tape with Nitrile gloves on. It was a little difficult, especially laying a piece down on the table with the sticky side up. I was able to tear pieces off and applie them to the outside of garbage cans and boxes without too much problems.

Your dedication to the cause is commendable!!
Definately worth a sleuthing award at the end of year party!

I think though that even if it's only Henkel that print a logo, I believe it has been claimed that they make most of the duct tape. That is henkel is the most common brand by far. I don't know that. It's just been claimed here.

 

[ecs5298]

Your dedication to the cause is commendable!!
Definately worth a sleuthing award at the end of year party!

I think though that even if it's only Henkel that print a logo, I believe it has been claimed that they make most of the duct tape. That is henkel is the most common brand by far. I don't know that. It's just been claimed here.

Thanks HP. I'll stop and get some "Duck Brand" on the way in tomorrow night and repeat the experiment. We'll see if the backside is printed.

 

[Rumpole]

Thanks HP. I'll stop and get some "Duck Brand" on the way in tomorrow night and repeat the experiment. We'll see if the backside is printed.

I'm glad you offered. I did not hold out too many hopes of somebody else repeating the experiment, so I was going to suggest you complete the tests on Henkel. Then you will definately get an award!

[Cautionary note: Depending on the solvent. It may disolve the ink in the logo?]

Please keep the sales receipt and forward with expenses claim to:
"Dopey,
c/o Orange County Jail,
Cell block K,
Cell No. 12."

 

[dbromley]

Thanks for the link. So... the FBI studied 82 rolls of duct tape and only ONE had printing on it. 1 out of 82! They said it was "on one side" and then they said some had camoflauge "on one side". I own a roll of the camoflauge and it's printed on the front side or visible side. I'm getting more convinced that the A's tape had a VISIBLE logo ON it, and this will be projected on a huge screen for all to see, while the jury realizes their own roll in their junk drawer at home has NO logo on it.

"most general purpose duct tape is made from hand tearable embossed vinyl backing coated with rubber adhesive."

The report you referenced says that the examination was macroscopic which means the logo they saw was likely visible to the eye externally, that they could not examine certain layers because they are sealed, & they said it was inconclusive. Not to mention we don't know specifically what tape they looked at. They said "Microscopic examination and FTIR-ATR analysis by themselves are not always conclusive with respect to the layer structure of duct tape backings," and "identifying the tape manufacturer in order to direct investigators toward a likely origin for duct tape evidence may not be possible solely by backing analysis."

Once again, "Most of the duct tape that is sold into the consumer market is distributed by Duck® brand which his made by Henkel," so they are very likely the same type.

Also the forensic findings released by the FBI could only say that the tape looked "similar" and if they could have said it was from the same roll, they would have said as much.

I still believe that an analysis of the fibers found on each sample, which they claim they have but have not tested yet, could potentially give a conclusive answer with regard to the different tape samples having ever been exposed to the same environments, and thus whether they came from the same roll.

 

[gorba]

macro[/U]scopic which means the logo they saw was likely visible to the eye externally,

Yes, the printing is definitely on the outside of the roll. There would be no reason to print a logo or other information on the inside and cover it with adhesive (it adds cost). The only time I've seen that is if it is a product that functions as a "tamper evident" product and I've only seen that for carton sealing tape.

Can someone direct me to the picture of the tape with the Henkel logo? I know I saw it, perhaps in the gas can pictures, but I can not find it now. I would like to get a second opinion on it.

I have done some more investigating and that printed logo is not as common as I originally believed. Generally, the printed products are the higher end products that professionals use and printing many times will include certifications (such as UL standards that are met). Someone also made mention of a 200F temperature notation. That indicates to me that that is a higher end product and not general purpose.

Also FWIW, Henkel does not actually manufacture their duct tape. Other tape company(s) make it for them and private label it.

If anyone can direct me to the photo, I will work on this some more to get a feel for how common that particular product is.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

My Guess is the heart sticker was off to one side and not over Caylees mouth. As in a "kiss" on the cheek?

I'm done confusing things over at the crime scene thread so I thought I'd come here and do the same.:crazy:

Listed as evidence collected Forensic pg 3504

50-60 ft. West of the baseline below marker south L9

Small plastic hair clip (heart design)

 

[Hot Dogs]

Can someone direct me to the picture of the tape with the Henkel logo? I know I saw it, perhaps in the gas can pictures, but I can not find it now. I would like to get a second opinion on it.

I don't think the docs contain any close-up photo of any duct tape in which the logo is visible to the viewer (of the photo). Here is the gas can with the tape that is said to show the logo.
.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi, I'm new here. I've been wanting to post here for last several days but had trouble registering/getting validated because I was using AOL... Anywho.... I too noticed that the FBI described seeing a black oval Henkel logo, printed in reverse on the adhesive side and is visible to be read through the non-sticky side. That was my interpretation anyway.
I have used ALOT of duct tape during almost 30 years in the amusement/attraction business. I've used many colors too, and have seen it degrade from UV and the elements. I have yet to see this elusive "black oval" on, in, or under the backing or adhesive side of DUCT tape. If what was on the skull was DUCT tape. I think the FBI just called it tape. But I say "elusive" black oval because last weekend I went to Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Lowes, Walmart and BigLots all within 10 miles of the Anthony's house (cuz thats where I live, lol) and I looked for any roll of tape with the Henkel logo on the tape itself. In fact a few of the rolls of the silver "duck" tape had already been opened so I peeled back the end to look at the adhesive underneath. Hmmmm, looked like a sleuth had already been there, lol. BTW, I don't care what is printed on the cardboard core. There are numerous "brands" but MOST use Henkel Adhesive.The cardboard part was not at the scene or on the gas can. The 800 pound gorilla tape is in the room! This is SPECIAL and UNIQUE tape! If one of you find this imprinted tape, let me know. Remember, it also says 200 F on it, which doesn't sound like a very high temperature to me. I suppose also a company may "hide" printing inside tape for maintanence reasons, such as, if after time and exposure you begin to see the logo, then it's time to replace the tape. I dunno.

Thank you and welcome to Websleuths.

Would Henkel make the theater type tape too? Gaff (can't remember name) Do you know? Adding: I went to their website and do not see the type of tape used in theater settings.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I thought this might interest you HP. Directly from the horses mouth.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2007/research/2007_01_research01.htm

That is really informative (now if I can just wake up from my nap - ha!).

Nothing is evident and simple is it?

 

[FX Wiz]

OK, maybe I got overzealous back there re: the scarcity of the logo being a big deal. I realize it's not the crown jewel, and I am aware the FBI report was inconclusive. If they can match the gauze up that would be great. If they can't, well at least they should be able to show that it's "special" tape. 200 degree tape.

 

[FX Wiz]

Thank you and welcome to Websleuths.

Would Henkel make the theater type tape too? Gaff (can't remember name) Do you know? Adding: I went to their website and do not see the type of tape used in theater settings.

Funny you would ask... The other day when I arrived home from work, my wife told me she had watched an old rerun of Little House on the Prairie and sure enough there was a Henkel Tape sign in the Olsen's store. Quick research told me Henkel's a German company, started in 1922. Little Hoouse is set in the late 1800s.So, being a prop maker myself, I surmise that the prop guys/set decorators didn't make it a point to be super accurate, OR it was product placement. You know, soundstages and TV shows are one of the biggest customers of gaffer tape suppliers. (its the same as duct tape but usually black in color) So the set decorator used that sign because it was there and it was free and it looked good in the fake store, or like I said it was purposeful product placement. My wife said it was quite a large sign. So what is my point? I then read somewhere (maybe this thread, lol) that Case borrowed gaffer or "gripper" tape from a friend to hold the American flag on her for a costume party. Gripper stuff prolly means double-face tape. Hmmmm... I dunno, might not mean anything. Personally I think George had the original roll.