The Fall Of Kabul To The Taliban

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otto said:
Exactly. In June, an Afghan translator and his entire family (which sometimes includes disabled mothers and teenage sisters) were provided Canadian citizenship, plane tickets, flight bookings, and luxury hotels in Kabul for 2-3 months (Jun - Aug, 2021). They had safe passage to Canada and citizenship for family in June. They had plane tickets from Kandahar to Kabul in June, but didn't arrive until late July. In August, educated international military translators were lounging around luxury hotels waiting for someone else to do what?

The Kabul airport was not grounded in June or July, and only became a safety risk in the last two weeks. Today, people are storming the airport, claiming that they will be killed if they are not given special privilege. Some of these same people had special privilege in June, yet they had done little to leave the country until the Taliban invaded Kabul in mid-August. Why didn't they leave sooner? What were they waiting for? They had citizenship papers for another country for the entire family, but what - they couldn't afford airfare? Why did they sit in the luxury hotels for a month rather than flee? Did they appear important sitting in a hotel paid by Canadians. waiting for a Canadian to pay for the airplane too?

As you point out, "they did not have tickets paid for to leave Afghanistan." Who did they expect would pay for their tickets? Someone else? Canadian taxpayers? Were they not paid properly as translators? Did they not receive a decent enough income to pay for a plane ticket? Did they decide that it was better to do nothing until Canadians paid their way while the Taliban marched to Kabul?

I don't understand. Are these educated military translators, or people who cannot think for themselves?

Canadian military should help people who will at least help themselves, but no, they should not risk their lives for people who act helpless for no good reason. Afghanistan citizens should be willing to help themselves. If they don't care, why should anyone else?
Click to expand...
So, I guess in other words, these people deserve whatever comes their way, right?
 
I am not a military leader, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night....but..
WHO gave the order to abandon the Bagram Base?
And, more importantly...why?
That whole factor screams surrender to me..just saying

"When the US abandoned its Bagram base in July without even informing the Afghan army commander, it left behind an estimated 3.5 million items. "

Black Hawk helicopters, A-29 Super Tocano bombers, armoured Humvees, drones and night vision goggles are among the billions of dollars worth of US military weaponry that has reportedly been seized by the Taliban.

Images of Taliban fighters posing with M4 carbines and M16 rifles and opening crates of firearms, drones and night-vision goggles are circulating in the media, part of a propaganda victory ...."

Were American weapons left behind in Afghanistan amid chaotic withdrawal?
 
otto said:
Exactly. In June, an Afghan translator and his entire family (which sometimes includes disabled mothers and teenage sisters) were provided Canadian citizenship, plane tickets, flight bookings, and luxury hotels in Kabul for 2-3 months (Jun - Aug, 2021). They had safe passage to Canada and citizenship for family in June. They had plane tickets from Kandahar to Kabul in June, but didn't arrive until late July. In August, educated international military translators were lounging around luxury hotels waiting for someone else to do what?

The Kabul airport was not grounded in June or July, and only became a safety risk in the last two weeks. Today, people are storming the airport, claiming that they will be killed if they are not given special privilege. Some of these same people had special privilege in June, yet they had done little to leave the country until the Taliban invaded Kabul in mid-August. Why didn't they leave sooner? What were they waiting for? They had citizenship papers for another country for the entire family, but what - they couldn't afford airfare? Why did they sit in the luxury hotels for a month rather than flee? Did they appear important sitting in a hotel paid by Canadians. waiting for a Canadian to pay for the airplane too?

As you point out, "they did not have tickets paid for to leave Afghanistan." Who did they expect would pay for their tickets? Someone else? Canadian taxpayers? Were they not paid properly as translators? Did they not receive a decent enough income to pay for a plane ticket? Did they decide that it was better to do nothing until Canadians paid their way while the Taliban marched to Kabul?

I don't understand. Are these educated military translators, or people who cannot think for themselves?

Canadian military should help people who will at least help themselves, but no, they should not risk their lives for people who act helpless for no good reason. Afghanistan citizens should be willing to help themselves. If they don't care, why should anyone else?
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is easy misunderstanding here. The news article has continued to update. When I read it, it said three hotels as the warehouses. When you read it, it probably said, all you remember. But the information was incorrect. The update says: "(Story modified Aug. 24 to clarify that safe houses and flight not paid for by Canadian government.)"

Otherwise, my apologies, but I have been unable to find a news article for that family, that has the elements you spoke of.
  • Canadian citizenship
  • Luxury hotels
  • Safe passage to Canada
  • Arrival in late Kabul in July
The article that you linked, said that he arrived in Kabul in June and went to a safe house.

“Finally in June, […] He appealed to Canadian donors the same day, was wired $1,500 and by that evening had reached Kabul with his wife and five children.”

“Ahmadullah said the family is now living at a safe house funded by private Canadian organizations.”

Then there is this experience by Siobhan Calnan, a retired Canadian Forces nurse. Note that she may or may not be speaking specifically of Ahmadullah. This is a new article: link here.

“Calnan said her friend submitted applications on behalf of the Kandahar interpreter and his family. But the Canadian still had difficulty, even with her high-end laptop computer and fast internet connection. After days or weeks of silence, she would be asked to re-submit documents because of minor errors.

Calnan said Canada ought to have evacuated the endangered ex-employees to a third country first, then done that processing.”

It is likely the same paperwork issues might be the culprit of why Ahmadullah’s family were still in Kabul.
 
Afghanistan live updates: ATMs empty and people can't buy food - as first US troops withdraw
Deborah Haynes
26 August 2021
"The group that is of most concern is an Islamic State affiliate in Afghanistan called Islamic State Khorasan, or ISIS-K, the source said.


The kind of attacks they are known for conducting in particular are suicide bombings, such as a car bomb or an individual blowing themselves up.''


Kabul airport: US concerned about 'very specific threat stream' from ISIS-K against crowds outside airport - CNNPolitics

''ISIS-Khorasan is a branch of the terror group that first emerged in Syria and Iraq. While the affiliates share an ideology and tactics, the depth of their relationship with regards to organization and command and control has never been entirely established.
US intelligence officials previously told CNN the ISIS-K membership includes "a small number of veteran jihadists from Syria and other foreign terrorist fighters," saying that the US had identified 10 to 15 of their top operatives in Afghanistan. The group's name comes from its terminology for the area that includes Afghanistan and Pakistan: "Khorasan."

''In May this year, ISIS-K attacked a school for girls in Kabul and killed at least 68 people, wounding more than than 165, most of them girls, according to a Defense Intelligence Agency assessment cited by the inspector general.''
 
* The media worldwide are going to jump on the story about the stranded American school children in Afghanistan.
It will be nearly all that dominates the worldwide news tomorrow.
The media will have their names and bios before dawn.
I hope that the Taliban does not find them. I forsee a major hostage situation, because all money to Afghanistan has been frozen by the world Bank.

How Jen Psaki today, was unaware of these children is astounding.
I'm very sure these children and their guardians used passports to enter Afghanistan.
If you thought that President Biden was under criticism, you ain't seen nothing yet.
If he turns his back on journalists questioning him about these kids, or mumbles about this situation,
Or blames the children for being there, Who Boy. Big fireworks.
 
I never heard a word about this atrocity. Why not? What else has not been covered by the media?

dotr said:
Afghanistan live updates: ATMs empty and people can't buy food - as first US troops withdraw
Deborah Haynes
26 August 2021
"The group that is of most concern is an Islamic State affiliate in Afghanistan called Islamic State Khorasan, or ISIS-K, the source said.


The kind of attacks they are known for conducting in particular are suicide bombings, such as a car bomb or an individual blowing themselves up.''


Kabul airport: US concerned about 'very specific threat stream' from ISIS-K against crowds outside airport - CNNPolitics

''ISIS-Khorasan is a branch of the terror group that first emerged in Syria and Iraq. While the affiliates share an ideology and tactics, the depth of their relationship with regards to organization and command and control has never been entirely established.
US intelligence officials previously told CNN the ISIS-K membership includes "a small number of veteran jihadists from Syria and other foreign terrorist fighters," saying that the US had identified 10 to 15 of their top operatives in Afghanistan. The group's name comes from its terminology for the area that includes Afghanistan and Pakistan: "Khorasan."

''In May this year, ISIS-K attacked a school for girls in Kabul and killed at least 68 people, wounding more than than 165, most of them girls, according to a Defense Intelligence Agency assessment cited by the inspector general.''
Click to expand...
 
KALI said:
I do not believe that ANY World leader during a crisis would make a Statement to its Citizens, followed by turning their back and walking away. Not once, not twice, not three times, but now four times.
I honestly don't think that in the history of mankind, a leader has ever done this before?
I could be wrong... but, I'm pretty smart. My guess is that NEVER in the history of mankind has any leader ever, turned his back to crisis questions by his followers.
Click to expand...
Honestly, IMO, the best thing the POTUS can do right now is not talk. It will not help, and would in all likelihood endanger US citizens still in Afghanistan, as well as our troops. It is unfortunately glaringly obvious he is not capable of formulating responses that are in any way appropriate or helpful without a teleprompter or note card (and even that leaves much to be desired).

We really, truly, as a country, need him to be quiet.
 
KALI said:
* The media worldwide are going to jump on the story about the stranded American school children in Afghanistan.
It will be nearly all that dominates the worldwide news tomorrow.
The media will have their names and bios before dawn.
I hope that the Taliban does not find them. I forsee a major hostage situation, because all money to Afghanistan has been frozen by the world Bank.

How Jen Psaki today, was unaware of these children is astounding.
I'm very sure these children and their guardians used passports to enter Afghanistan.
If you thought that President Biden was under criticism, you ain't seen nothing yet.
If he turns his back on journalists questioning him about these kids, or mumbles about this situation,
Or blames the children for being there, Who Boy. Big fireworks.
Click to expand...

It turned out that the students and their parents are Afghans and were there on purpose visiting "friends and family" under military visas. The reason they came to the medias attention is because the parents called their US schools to ask them to hold places for the students because they wouldn't be out of Afghanistan to be there in time for the school year. I posted the link to the LA Times story about it above.

Here's the link and snips again:

Miyashiro said that the families are on special visas for U.S. military service and that the Department of Defense considers them allies. He said that the district was able to provide information on the families and that government officials are working to locate the children and their families. He said he was encouraged by the assistance.

* * *
Cajon Valley School Board member Jo Alegria said the students were in Afghanistan on summer vacation with their families. She said families of the students who are abroad reached out to the district to ask that it hold their places in their classrooms.

Students from San Diego County school district stranded in Afghanistan
 
This, running for the hills, should not be happening.
We had control. We had months!


shotgun09 said:
From Lucy Fisher, UK's Telegraph Political Editor:

"NEW Stranded Afghans should consider fleeing over land borders, not waiting for RAF airlifts out of Kabul airport, warns Ben Wallace. Defence Sec told MPs tonight that Afghan translators should now “explore another route” out, ahead of UK troop drawdown."

https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1430642025167212547
Click to expand...
 
I have a feeling of great dread with the 20 year anniversary of 9/11 just days away. There is of course much blame to go around, and no one POTUS is responsible for the entirety of the mess in Afghanistan.

However, the disgrace we are seeing now is absolutely on Biden. It’s glaringly obvious there was no real plan to evacuate US citizens when the inevitably hit the fan. That’s 100% on him as commander in chief.
 
otto said:
Exactly. In June, an Afghan translator and his entire family (which sometimes includes disabled mothers and teenage sisters) were provided Canadian citizenship, plane tickets, flight bookings, and luxury hotels in Kabul for 2-3 months (Jun - Aug, 2021). They had safe passage to Canada and citizenship for family in June. They had plane tickets from Kandahar to Kabul in June, but didn't arrive until late July. In August, educated international military translators were lounging around luxury hotels waiting for someone else to do what?

The Kabul airport was not grounded in June or July, and only became a safety risk in the last two weeks. Today, people are storming the airport, claiming that they will be killed if they are not given special privilege. Some of these same people had special privilege in June, yet they had done little to leave the country until the Taliban invaded Kabul in mid-August. Why didn't they leave sooner? What were they waiting for? They had citizenship papers for another country for the entire family, but what - they couldn't afford airfare? Why did they sit in the luxury hotels for a month rather than flee? Did they appear important sitting in a hotel paid by Canadians. waiting for a Canadian to pay for the airplane too?

As you point out, "they did not have tickets paid for to leave Afghanistan." Who did they expect would pay for their tickets? Someone else? Canadian taxpayers? Were they not paid properly as translators? Did they not receive a decent enough income to pay for a plane ticket? Did they decide that it was better to do nothing until Canadians paid their way while the Taliban marched to Kabul?

I don't understand. Are these educated military translators, or people who cannot think for themselves?

Canadian military should help people who will at least help themselves, but no, they should not risk their lives for people who act helpless for no good reason. Afghanistan citizens should be willing to help themselves. If they don't care, why should anyone else?
Click to expand...

If I'm tracking correctly, they were awaiting their actual entry visas while Justin diddled around (Full disclosure: I donated to their cause). Seems to be more interested in attempting to gain a majority than bringing in those I served with in Khandahar and who've been assured would be brought over by our government ... since 2011. Ridiculous. Horrendous. Unexcuseable.
 
UK tells stranded Afghans to go to border not the airport due to terror attack threat from Isis-K | Daily Mail Online


The UK last night told its Afghan allies who are still trying to get out of Afghanistan to head for the border rather than attempt to get into Kabul airport where US and British forces are winding down their operations.

As evacuation efforts entered their final hours, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace appeared to signal in a briefing to MPs that there are few places left on British planes.

There are also warnings of an increased terror risk from jihadists ISIS-K, with US officials last night saying there was a 'very real risk' of an attack by the terror group who are the Taliban's rivals. .

The US today issued a new alert, warning those wishing to evacuate not to come to the airport amid security concerns. Officials also urged those currently at three of the airport's gates to leave 'immediately'.

Questioned yesterday about what Afghans who have been offered student places or fellowships in the UK should do, Mr Wallace said: 'If they think they can make it to a third country, that may be a better option.'

Pressed by a Tory backbencher, Mr Wallace added: 'I recommend that they try and make it to the border … because it is higher profile going to the airport – that is where the Taliban will be focusing their efforts at the moment.'

There was no suggestion however, that Afghans who have been told by western officials to travel to the airport for evacuation should alter that plan.

Meanwhile, troubling video today showed thousands of Afghans attempting to flee the country via the Pakistan border.

The footage shows a huge crowd of people at Spin Boldak, a southern village on the border with Pakistan, queuing up at the border gates.

It comes amid reports that desperate Britons and Afghans cleared for evacuation are still trapped in Kabul and are being charged more than £5,000 by local 'private security firms' to help them escape the clutches of the Taliban.

The firms are reportedly charging $7,500 dollars (approximately £5,500) to give those willing to pay a safe passage past Taliban fighters and to Kabul airport.

But most of the money is actually being used to pay off the Taliban anyway, say UK defence sources.
 

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HawthorneJuniper said:
Seriously. It's always been a Level 4 Do Not Travel country. Never mind everyone knew the Taliban was taking over. But people are crazy. A group visiting this summer. Yesterday a story about a family who had gotten settled here but went BACK in July to visit family cause they might not be able to see them for a long time! The father got back but the August return tickets were "too expensive" for his wife and 5 or so children so he got them tickets in September. Now he wants them rescued.
Click to expand...

Wondering if this was the plan all along, to delay travel until after the US left Afghanistan. Why travel if you can't afford the cost? The father comes home and leaves his family knowing the dire situation.

Sad, but many warning were issued, the media covered extensively and they are just now speaking up. Did they make any attempt to go to the airport early in the situation? I hold the patents responsible, not the US Government.

Moo.....
 
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