The Flashlight.....

[Nehemiah]

Okay...if your daughter was MISSING...and you found her obviously dead in the basement with her wrists tied...(and a garotte around her neck....yeah, yeah...I know....JR said that he didn't notice that....yeah RIGHT!)...would you scream "I FOUND HER!".....or would you scream bloody murder...."OH MY GOD...MY POOR BABY!" And be inconsolable, and hysterical??? I just can't imagine someone "stumbling" across their dead child, and then yelling upstairs..."I FOUND HER!" Like she was hiding in the closet or something....

I don't know for sure what I'd do. In situations where I have been under extreme stress, I have sometimes found myself doing exactly the opposite of what I thought I would have done.

I posted this before...one of my good friends lost her young daughter in an accident. Just about a week or so before the accident, she was watching a movie (Deep End of the Ocean) and she commented that if something like that happened to one of her kids, she would react in the same way (mental/emotional breakdown), if not worse. I distinctly remember her saying that she would have to be sedated. When her daughter was tragically killed, she acted the exact opposite of what she had told everyone just the week before. A few months later she commented to me that she would have never believed that she would hold up the way she did.

I always think about this when I think about the Ramseys and their behavior. I think grief is shown in many forms and no two people are necessarily alike in their grieving states.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I have been lurking. :chicken:

Putting batteries in a flashlight/or taking them out to wipe off. I don't think I could do that without getting fingerprints on them somewhere. Now if I had gloves on..............

And if you(any prudent person) would expect fingerprints on the flashlight, where were the rest of the finger prints in the house of this 'someone".

I would love to see examples of how others would write a ramson note. I just don't feel I could or would write three pages if I was trying to hide something.

 

[Ames]

I don't know for sure what I'd do. In situations where I have been under extreme stress, I have sometimes found myself doing exactly the opposite of what I thought I would have done.

I posted this before...one of my good friends lost her young daughter in an accident. Just about a week or so before the accident, she was watching a movie (Deep End of the Ocean) and she commented that if something like that happened to one of her kids, she would react in the same way (mental/emotional breakdown), if not worse. I distinctly remember her saying that she would have to be sedated. When her daughter was tragically killed, she acted the exact opposite of what she had told everyone just the week before. A few months later she commented to me that she would have never believed that she would hold up the way she did.

I always think about this when I think about the Ramseys and their behavior. I think grief is shown in many forms and no two people are necessarily alike in their grieving states.

Their actions along with their inconsistant statements during interviews....raises a red flag...IMO

 

[Ames]

I have been lurking. :chicken:

Putting batteries in a flashlight/or taking them out to wipe off. I don't think I could do that without getting fingerprints on them somewhere. Now if I had gloves on..............

And if you(any prudent person) would expect fingerprints on the flashlight, where were the rest of the finger prints in the house of this 'someone".

I would love to see examples of how others would write a ramson note. I just don't feel I could or would write three pages if I was trying to hide something.

If you were extremely agitated because you had killed your child in a rage...and also nervous, and hyped up on adrenalin....AND trying to explain away what happened to you daughter, so that no one would suspect you...I bet you would. (PLUS....why would an INTRUDER take his sweet time to write a three page ransom letter? A person with plenty of time, and no fear of being caught is the author....and that would HAVE to be someone that LIVES in the Ramsey home..IMO)

 

[BlueCrab]

The Ramseys did not deny owning the flashlight. They said it resembled theirs, except the color was different. The Ramsey's 3-cell Mag-Lite was black; but in the photo of the flashlight shown to the Ramseys the color of the light was a mottled gray. The cops then admitted they had chemically tested the light trying to lift fingerprints from it. The chemicals changed its color.

When this was explained to the Ramseys they confirmed it was their flashlight.

BlueCrab

 

[JMO8778]

Ames,

How about that the flashlight was used in the commission of a homicide, regardless of the part it played, but since the staging in the wine-cellar had changed then the flashlight was redundant, so it was removed and wiped clean to make sure there was no comeback?

Is that not simpler than a double-bluff scenario, where the police might ask hey, why is an intruder wiping the inside of the flashlight, including the batteries clean, when he likely brought it with him, so he can just take it out with him, or is it a Ramsey flashlight, and he thoughtfully brought some new batteries along to assist in his homicide, or did he know which drawer replacement batteries were held?


kiss and occam win every time!


.

I think the R's knew their fingerprints were on the batteries,so they had to be wiped down as well.
As well as one or both of them may have used it to avoid turning on lights in the basement.
Ohhh...I forgot..does anyone recall the neighbor saying he saw 'strange lights' in the kitchen around midnight that night??? It's conjectured to be one of the R's with the flashlight..b/c the lights were left off to make the neighbors think they were asleep.
I don't think it was part of the staging...I think it was obviously used somehow,if only just to see in the dark.Otherwise,I don't think it would have been left out or wiped down.

 

[JMO8778]

If you were extremely agitated because you had killed your child in a rage...and also nervous, and hyped up on adrenalin....AND trying to explain away what happened to you daughter, so that no one would suspect you...I bet you would. (PLUS....why would an INTRUDER take his sweet time to write a three page ransom letter? A person with plenty of time, and no fear of being caught is the author....and that would HAVE to be someone that LIVES in the Ramsey home..IMO)

I agree,and the sheer length of it reeks of desperation,lying and someone trying to save their own hide.

 

[JMO8778]

Now that we are sure she did it, can you even think of looking through a scrap book at the child who is "missing". I don't think so Patsy.

Only if they were looking for pics to give police,so they could know what she looks like.But I have not EVER once heard that was the case ! In the movie,which LS says was recreated as closely as possible,they were all just sitting in the sunroom looking at her portfolio.

 

[JMO8778]

But if it was used at all to cause the headwound...why would they just leave it out in the open. Why not dispose of it, what if....when they wiped it down, they forgot a print or two. I just think that it was all part of the staging...I do see your point though...and can appreciate it. Of course, I believe that the Ramsey's are the stagers of the flashlight prop.

They couldn't hide it or take it with them,like they did with the underwear.It was too big and bulky.So I beleive they chose to wipe it down and leave it out,like it was left there by someone.Leaving it out wiped clean,they were able to distance themselves from it.

 

[philamena]

They couldn't hide it or take it with them,like they did with the underwear.It was too big and bulky.So I beleive they chose to wipe it down and leave it out,like it was left there by someone.Leaving it out wiped clean,they were able to distance themselves from it.

Yes, I agree. Just like they left their notepad and pen right there in the house.

 

[Toltec]

The staging wasn't perfect...my belief is that Patsy forgot to place the flashlight in the wet bar drawer where it belonged.

 

[JMO8778]

Opps...it wasn't PMPT where I read that..it was from a link SD posted under strangulation and head wound:
(WS is Dr Werner Spitz)Without seeing his motions,I don't know which way he is saying she was hit with it,front or back.

Dr.WS: I believe that the injury to the head was first, knocked her out. I think everything else here was staging.

LC: Spitz maintains the blow to the head was the central element of the murder, and he carefully studied JB's fatal scull fracture.

Dr.WS: ...? it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable.

LC: The size and shape of the fracture was so distinctive, Spitz decided to conduct his own tests, reenacting the injury.

Dr.WS: You could do it on syrofoam, you could do it on cardboard, you could do it on bone. I did it on all three.

LC: Published reports this week, speculate a baseball bat, found outside the house, might be the murder weapon. Spitz's tests lead him to a weapon inside the house.

Dr.WS: I would certainly believe that the flashlight is the instrument of death.

LC: What makes you so sure that it's compatible. How do you know?

Dr.WS: Because it fits right into the ....?.. It doesn't fit into the defect where it leaves some area to play with. It fits perfectly.

LC: Not any flashlight, but a specific type police reportedly found in the Ramsey home.

Dr.WS: The flashlight was raised above the head of the perpetrater and,a hand down,...with this portion , this wide, breaking the bone.

 

[UKGuy]

Oh there is no doubt in my mind that one of the Ramsey's wiped it clean. But, I just believe that it had no part in the crime...except when one of the Ramsey's used it (one of the neighbors said that they saw a flashlight being used inside of the Ramsey's house...I believe it was coming from the kitchen)...just in case a neighbor were to see. (Their plan worked...because the neighbors DID see it). I believe that it was later wiped clean, BY A RAMSEY and put into full view...as a prop. I believe that IT was part of the staging....(trying to lead the investigators to believe that it belonged to the intruder....who...by the way...WOULD NOT have wiped it clean and left it....he would have taken it with him).

Ames,

(trying to lead the investigators to believe that it belonged to the intruder....who...by the way...WOULD NOT have wiped it clean and left it....he would have taken it with him)

So why did the Ramsey's not point out the strange flashlight sitting in their kitchen?

.

 

[UKGuy]

The Ramseys did not deny owning the flashlight. They said it resembled theirs, except the color was different. The Ramsey's 3-cell Mag-Lite was black; but in the photo of the flashlight shown to the Ramseys the color of the light was a mottled gray. The cops then admitted they had chemically tested the light trying to lift fingerprints from it. The chemicals changed its color.

When this was explained to the Ramseys they confirmed it was their flashlight.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Thanks for the clarification, so another question must be, why did it not follow the same path as her size-6 underwear, reel of cord etc, particularly if it was used to fracture JonBenet's skull?


.

 

[UKGuy]

The staging wasn't perfect...my belief is that Patsy forgot to place the flashlight in the wet bar drawer where it belonged.

Toltec,

Assuming it was the murder weapon and used to cave in JonBenet's skull, why forget to place it back into its drawer?

That is curious behaviour assuming the other items which are alleged to be missing seem less important?


Seems like there might be two sets of staging one where evidence is removed efficiently and another where a general disregard is apparent?


.

 

[tumble]

Ames,


So why did the Ramsey's not point out the strange flashlight sitting in their kitchen?

.

This would be dangerous for them.

- Look here is a strange unknwn flashlight.

And then be confronted with the police proving it was theirs. Better to just have the police figure out everything. Noone can blame them for (strange as it sounds) having left no fingerpring on their own flashlight.

 

[Ames]

The Ramseys did not deny owning the flashlight. They said it resembled theirs, except the color was different. The Ramsey's 3-cell Mag-Lite was black; but in the photo of the flashlight shown to the Ramseys the color of the light was a mottled gray. The cops then admitted they had chemically tested the light trying to lift fingerprints from it. The chemicals changed its color.

When this was explained to the Ramseys they confirmed it was their flashlight.

BlueCrab

Well, if they had admitted it.....I would like to know how they explained away the fact that it had been wiped clean...along with the batteries? Do the Ramsey's want people to believe that the "intruder" ENTERED their house without ANY supplies....including a flashlight....and that he somehow KNEW where the Ramsey's kept theirs, so he used IT...and then wiped off his prints....YEAH RIGHT. I never knew that they had finally confirmed that it belonged to them. I had always thought that the Ramsey's denied owning it, from day ONE...and from then on. If this is true...that the Ramsey's admitted it was theirs...then that only confirms what I already knew....THEY wiped the prints clean...after they murdered their daughter.

 

[Ames]

This would be dangerous for them.

- Look here is a strange unknwn flashlight.

And then be confronted with the police proving it was theirs. Better to just have the police figure out everything. Noone can blame them for (strange as it sounds) having left no fingerpring on their own flashlight.

Thank you...you answered UK's question for me.

Of course, a flashlight out in the open is going to be noticed, they didn't HAVE to point it out to the police/investigators....an "intruder" had just entered the house and murdered their daughter....police would notice a thing like a flashlight that was left out....(it was dark, the intruder needed to see.....hmmmm...maybe he used this here flashlight that was left out in plain view for all to see).

 

[Ames]

Toltec,

Assuming it was the murder weapon and used to cave in JonBenet's skull, why forget to place it back into its drawer?

That is curious behaviour assuming the other items which are alleged to be missing seem less important?


Seems like there might be two sets of staging one where evidence is removed efficiently and another where a general disregard is apparent?


.

I believe, as I have stated before...that the flashlight was ALL part of the staging...I don't think that it was used in the murder....it MAY have been used to hit JB AGAIN in the head, as part of the staging, though. But, I do not believe that the flashlight caused the initial blow to the head. I believe that it was left out...on purpose...by the Ramsey's...after having prints removed...to make it look like an intruder had used it. I am sure that the Ramsey's made a big deal about that flashlight that the "intruder" used...until, of course...they had to confirm that it was theirs....WHICH THEY KNEW ALL ALONG. If the police were smart...they would have made the Ramsey's show them THEIR flashlight. Instead of going round and round about if it was gray or black, and then the police had to explain that it HAD been black but had been discolored (gray) because of the chemicals used to lift prints. DUHHHHH Wouldn't this have been alot more easier...."Mr. Ramsey...would you mind showing us YOUR flashlight, sir?" And then..by george...Mr. Ramsey wouldn't have been able to FIND IT...because the one that the "intruder" used and left out was HIS. Gee....funny how that works....

 

[JMO8778]

I believe, as I have stated before...that the flashlight was ALL part of the staging...I don't think that it was used in the murder....it MAY have been used to hit JB AGAIN in the head, as part of the staging, though. But, I do not believe that the flashlight caused the initial blow to the head. I believe that it was left out...on purpose...by the Ramsey's...after having prints removed...to make it look like an intruder had used it. I am sure that the Ramsey's made a big deal about that flashlight that the "intruder" used...until, of course...they had to confirm that it was theirs....WHICH THEY KNEW ALL ALONG. If the police were smart...they would have made the Ramsey's show them THEIR flashlight. Instead of going round and round about if it was gray or black, and then the police had to explain that it HAD been black but had been discolored (gray) because of the chemicals used to lift prints. DUHHHHH Wouldn't this have been alot more easier...."Mr. Ramsey...would you mind showing us YOUR flashlight, sir?" And then..by george...Mr. Ramsey wouldn't have been able to FIND IT...because the one that the "intruder" used and left out was HIS. Gee....funny how that works....

Aint it tho...good idea...altho with him having the airplanes,I bet he would have said it got left on one,and someone must have borrowed it and forgot to give it back,or it must have been left in the hanger,and someone took it,etc.My husb. works on airplanes and that happens sometimes...maglites aren't cheap,and he ends up buying another every so often.They're also good quality,hard built FL's and I can see how they could inflict a fatal headwound quite easily.
And altho IMO,I do think that's what was used,I would still like to see some tests done on the type of golf clubs they found a partial set of near the body.
As far as being left out,with it being used in the kitchen,and the neighbors reporting 'strange lights' coming from there...if it wasnt the murder weapon,then I think they felt they had to leave it out in case someone saw it being used there...which they did.