The Flashlight.....

[MyBelle]

Your intensive investigative forensic work on the weapon that caused JonBenet's head injury is impressive. I salute your wisdom.

More than anything, the allegation that the flashlight was the weapon responsible for the head injury was the main point as I agree about the way Dr. WS self-destructed before our very eyes in the cases referenced.

We are missing copious amounts of CS images. If we saw more of them, we could line them up with the Rs interviews and study the stun gun theory, in more detail, as well as possibly answer questions like what happened to the size 4-6 panties when the ENORMOUS size 12s were slipped onto JonBenet.

Since the long johns do not possess PRs TDNA, then did she wear gloves as these lj's were placed on JBR? If so, did JonBenet change into nightwear and go to bed after arriving home from the White's party and the lj's were put on JBR just before death while wearing gloves?

Re: that bundled red turtleneck shirt JBR did not wish to wear on the 25th maybe PR made her wear to bed so she would be partially dressed for the early morning flight that never took place.

Which room of the hellhole was she clobbered over the head with the flashlight? Assuming the killer obtained the torch from the drawer close to the main floor's telephone. The phone PR used the dial 911. Correct.

If the flashlight had not been used since received as a gift over a year earlier, then someone made certain the flashlight had fresh batteries that fateful night.

I would be amiss if I did not comment on your fabulous avatar of Dr. Werner Spitz in action.

OMO

I don't know of any parent of a bedwetter, myself included, who would let a child go to bed without going to the bathroom first. If she was asleep when arriving home, I would have awakened her, taken her to the bathroom, put her in pajamas and tucked her in. That entire process only takes a couple of minutes. From the evidence in this case, it appears JonBenet woke up entirely and wanted to eat. That is consistent with being awakened to use the bathroom and change into pjs.

JMO

 

[DeDee]

(rs&bbm)I don't think the Maglite was used, but I think the head blow happened in the basement.

That's where they claimed that theirs had been kept.

That's what I dispute. I think the 911 call was made from the identical phone in the basement that lay on a utility table in the laundry room.

Not the Maglite. Not the putter. Not the weight laying on her bdrm floor. Not the pipe over the WC door. But an item 3/4"w. Correct. That would create an oval shape divot. Or more specifically, an Ovoid.

Long ago, I read the basement phone was not connected to service. Casting that aside, why would Patsy want to dial 911 from the basement if she found the RN on the stairway? If she did dial from the basement, and that is BRs voice on the 911 tape, then he was in the basement, too. All three of them were in the basement during the 911 call. I dunno, otg.

OMO

 

[DeDee]

My apologies. Posted in wrong thread.

 

[otg]

Not the Maglite. Not the putter. Not the weight laying on her bdrm floor. Not the pipe over the WC door. But an item 3/4"w. Correct. That would create an oval shape divot. Or more specifically, an Ovoid.

Long ago, I read the basement phone was not connected to service. Casting that aside, why would Patsy want to dial 911 from the basement if she found the RN on the stairway? If she did dial from the basement, and that is BRs voice on the 911 tape, then he was in the basement, too. All three of them were in the basement during the 911 call. I dunno, otg.

OMO

My apologies. Posted in wrong thread.

I posted my response in the thread I think you meant it to be here.

 

[THE BUNK]

Form the IDI perspective. Using the flashlight as the bash weapon is problematic for several reason. one of which is that It leads to the strange fact that this intruder did not bring his own flashlight...yet brought his own rope and duct tape. It's puzzling how selective this guy was in what he chose to bring and what he chose not to.
It's also puzzling why he would care about removing the fingerprints. He's already leaving a 3 page sample of his handwriting and all the evidence that will be left during his molestation of Jonbenet.

From and RDI perspective. The flashlight is going to be useful to the Ramsey's to traipse around the house without turning on the lights (especially in the basement). So it need not necessarily be the bash weapon.

It also makes sense that the Ramsey's would not wear gloves to use the flashlight. It's something that would not have occurred to them until after everything was set up. The flashlight would probably be the last thing they used.

I also think if it was the bash weapon it would have disappeared since it would have been an obvious or critical piece of evidence.

 

[Mama2JML]

Form the IDI perspective. Using the flashlight as the bash weapon is problematic for several reason. one of which is that It leads to the strange fact that this intruder did not bring his own flashlight...yet brought his own rope and duct tape. It's puzzling how selective this guy was in what he chose to bring and what he chose not to.
It's also puzzling why he would care about removing the fingerprints. He's already leaving a 3 page sample of his handwriting and all the evidence that will be left during his molestation of Jonbenet.

From and RDI perspective. The flashlight is going to be useful to the Ramsey's to traipse around the house without turning on the lights (especially in the basement). So it need not necessarily be the bash weapon.

It also makes sense that the Ramsey's would not wear gloves to use the flashlight. It's something that would not have occurred to them until after everything was set up. The flashlight would probably be the last thing they used.

I also think if it was the bash weapon it would have disappeared since it would have been an obvious or critical piece of evidence.

What are your thoughts on the bat?

 

[Anti-K]

Form the IDI perspective. Using the flashlight as the bash weapon is problematic for several reason. one of which is that It leads to the strange fact that this intruder did not bring his own flashlight...yet brought his own rope and duct tape. It's puzzling how selective this guy was in what he chose to bring and what he chose not to.
It's also puzzling why he would care about removing the fingerprints. He's already leaving a 3 page sample of his handwriting and all the evidence that will be left during his molestation of Jonbenet.

From and RDI perspective. The flashlight is going to be useful to the Ramsey's to traipse around the house without turning on the lights (especially in the basement). So it need not necessarily be the bash weapon.

It also makes sense that the Ramsey's would not wear gloves to use the flashlight. It's something that would not have occurred to them until after everything was set up. The flashlight would probably be the last thing they used.

I also think if it was the bash weapon it would have disappeared since it would have been an obvious or critical piece of evidence.

The flashlight as weapon is problematic because it was left out in the open, on the kitchen counter. However, this flashlight and the one possibly used by the killer need not be the same flashlight.

It makes perfect sense and is reasonable to think that an intruder would have need of and use a flashlight, but there is no reasonable explanation for the Ramseys to be wandering around using one.
...

AK

 

[DeDee]

Lou Smit said the pineapple was the bugaboo. The Rs claimed JonBenét was taken straight to her bed from the vehicle without stopping for anything much less pineapple. However, when the story broke that pineapple was found in JBs GI system, it was too late for the Rs to edit their story. They chose to stick with the JonBenét going straight to bed version.

The lack of prints on the flashlight and its placement in plain sight make it important whether it was used as a weapon or not.

On the evening of December 25th, the Ramsey home was reportedly without a normal light burning in the sunroom that had been on every evening for two years, according to neighbors. A neighbor also reported seeing moving lights in the Rs kitchen. A light was seen around midnight in the Butler's Kitchen.

JBs small lamp on the bathroom counter or the overhead light may have been left on. How does the perp get the child from her room, down the staircase and into the basement with lighting? Oh, so the perp holds the live child, who is apparently very quiet and not resisting, and also a flashlight in their hand?

How is everything performed in the CS without adequate lighting that one flashlight cannot possibly provide? Finding one's way through the basement door would be like stumbling into a cluttered, dark cave. Perhaps the Maglite had the capacity to illuminate an entire room. :dunno:

 

[bettybaby00]

(rs&bbm)I don't think the Maglite was used, but I think the head blow happened in the basement.

That's where they claimed that theirs had been kept.

That's what I dispute. I think the 911 call was made from the identical phone in the basement that lay on a utility table in the laundry room.

That's a HOLY CRAP moment!

 

[questfortrue]

That's a HOLY CRAP moment!

May as well have a visual. Line seems to extend from phone up through ceiling.

 

[DeeDee249]

Actually, Patsy told police in an interview that they kept their heavy maglight in a drawer off the kitchen. The Rs were evasive about whether the flashlight in the crime photos was theirs-saying they had one JUST like it but this one was "dirty" (of course it was fingerprint powder- something police just let drop like another lead balloon). Police were showing Patsy a photo of the open drawer, which she said she kept the flashlight in and in that photo the flashlight was NOT in the drawer. Police did a little dance about whether it is possible that since the drawer did not have a flashlight in it and there was a flashlight on the counter that was "just like theirs, only dirty" that just maybe that WAS theirs.

 

[andreww]

The Ramseys did not deny owning the flashlight. They said it resembled theirs, except the color was different. The Ramsey's 3-cell Mag-Lite was black; but in the photo of the flashlight shown to the Ramseys the color of the light was a mottled gray. The cops then admitted they had chemically tested the light trying to lift fingerprints from it. The chemicals changed its color.

When this was explained to the Ramseys they confirmed it was their flashlight.

BlueCrab

So if the Ramsey's confirmed it was their flashlight, how did they explain the fact that there were no prints on the batteries??? Did they wear gloves to change them?


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[RANCH]

So if the Ramsey's confirmed it was their flashlight, how did they explain the fact that there were no prints on the batteries??? Did they wear gloves to change them?


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I'm not sure that my fingerprints are always left behind on every object I touch. I'm sure that smudged prints may be left behind some of the time. But those aren't considered as being "prints."

The lack of fingerprints on the flashlight or it's batteries means little in my opinion.

 

[gramcracker]

I'm not sure that my fingerprints are always left behind on every object I touch. I'm sure that smudged prints may be left behind some of the time. But those aren't considered as being "prints."

The lack of fingerprints on the flashlight or it's batteries means little in my opinion.

smudged prints are totally different from having been wiped clean of prints

a solitary inconsistency is easily explained/justified but an accumulation of numerous inconsistencies (all of which favor one "side") invites suspicion/speculation

if a retail cash register system consistently over-charges and never under-charges the customer, something's up

 

[RANCH]

smudged prints are totally different from having been wiped clean of prints

a solitary inconsistency is easily explained/justified but an accumulation of numerous inconsistencies (all of which favor one "side") invites suspicion/speculation

if a retail cash register system consistently over-charges and never under-charges the customer, something's up

So do we know that the batteries were "wiped clean" or were there no fingerprints found? That's two different things. Right?

 

[Linda7NJ]

(rs&bbm)I don't think the Maglite was used, but I think the head blow happened in the basement.

That's where they claimed that theirs had been kept.

That's what I dispute. I think the 911 call was made from the identical phone in the basement that lay on a utility table in the laundry room.

If it laid on the utility table I would think it would have actually hung up and disconnected the call. Is there a photo of this phone anywhere?

Wall phones were notorious for not sitting in the cradle correctly if you hung up in a hurry.


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[Linda7NJ]

So if the Ramsey's confirmed it was their flashlight, how did they explain the fact that there were no prints on the batteries??? Did they wear gloves to change them?


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It's possible to change batteries and leave no discernible fingerprints. If a person recently washed their hands, it's possible to not leave any prints as the oils aren't present.

IMO


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[RANCH]

It's possible to change batteries and leave no discernible fingerprints. If a person recently washed their hands, it's possible to not leave any prints as the oils aren't present.

IMO


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I think that it's possible for someone to not leave behind discernible prints even if they didn't recently wash their hands.

Smudged prints are caused by smearing or a rubbing movement. That's a normal thing to happen so it's not unusual for no discernible prints to be found.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think that it's possible for someone to not leave behind discernible prints even if they didn't recently wash their hands.



Smudged prints are caused by smearing or a rubbing movement. That's a normal thing to happen so it's not unusual for no discernible prints to be found.



JMO

Agree.




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[gramcracker]

the Schiller/Thomas books mention that the flashlight and batteries were devoid of fingerprints, not that smeared/illegible prints were obtained

Kolar's book doesn't mention the lack of prints, and describes the MagLite as being favored for use by LE. Kolar also mentions that the ML was not marked in any way (as LEOS do, to identify their equipment) and the serial number could not be traced as having been supplied to any LEO by their department. Kolar mentions that a gloved officer would not leave fresh prints on the ML (but I would think that previous prints would be smeared by a gloved hand). as Kolar asks, would an officer insert batteries while wearing gloves? perhaps. no officer ever stepped forward to say "that's my MagLite"

this is discussed because the Rs were coy/reluctant about IDing the Maglite as belonging to them/their household. which IMO telegraphs guilty knowledge about some part played by the ML during the event (think: the moving light observed by neighbors)