The Flashlight.....

[DeeDee249]

I'm wondering by where the flashlight and the baseball bat was found if it was done so trying to throw off LE...I mean who ever done this knew about the head wound...Like Patsy saying I don't see any blood do you,some say she was looking at the head of the bed...So maybe they was hiding what cause the head wound,lead them away from where it happen at....

The flashlight was found on a kitchen counter. The baseball bat was found outside.
Patsy's statement is very suspicious. But she was asked about whether JB had nosebleeds. So she knew LE was onto something. At the time Patsy made that comment, I don't know if she'd been asked about the nosebleeds yet.

 

[JMO8778]

I'm wondering by where the flashlight and the baseball bat was found if it was done so trying to throw off LE...I mean who ever done this knew about the head wound...Like Patsy saying I don't see any blood do you,some say she was looking at the head of the bed...So maybe they was hiding what cause the head wound,lead them away from where it happen at....

good thought;I've often thought maybe they were thinking of getting JB out of the house,i.e.- "deny her remains",or,barring that,at least putting her close by,like perhaps in the back yard.I imagine the attorneys may have advised she not be found within the house itself.But I think they got too afraid to do that,or couldn't bring themselves to do it,so considered the basement to be the next best thing.

 

[Ravyn]

The flashlight was found on a kitchen counter. The baseball bat was found outside.
Patsy's statement is very suspicious. But she was asked about whether JB had nosebleeds. So she knew LE was onto something. At the time Patsy made that comment, I don't know if she'd been asked about the nosebleeds yet.

If I'm not mistaken talking about nosebleeds came after Dec 26..I want to think it was brought up in a interview...

 

[DeeDee249]

If I'm not mistaken talking about nosebleeds came after Dec 26..I want to think it was brought up in a interview...

It was. Patsy was shown a photo of JB's bed, with the curtain tieback over the headboard. Yes, it didn't belong fixed that way but it was hardly an indication of someone taking her from her bed. The house was always untidy and messy, beds were never made unless LHP made them.

 

[ukrberserker]

Somewhere here on the forums, or in the interviews, JR said the flashlight belonged to JAR. It was a gift from JR. Sorry I don't know which thread. I've read through 20 pages of threads in the last week.

 

[DeeDee249]

Somewhere here on the forums, or in the interviews, JR said the flashlight belonged to JAR. It was a gift from JR. Sorry I don't know which thread. I've read through 20 pages of threads in the last week.

I believe I read that Patsy said that is was a gift to JR.

 

[Nehemiah]

Somewhere here on the forums, or in the interviews, JR said the flashlight belonged to JAR. It was a gift from JR. Sorry I don't know which thread. I've read through 20 pages of threads in the last week.

10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, I know

11 that you were asked questions about a black

12 metal flashlight that was found in the house.

13 We have developed, since '98, some

14 information about that flashlight I would

15 like to ask you just a little bit about.

16 Is that the flashlight that you

17 habitually used, say for example, if your

18 power went out and you had candles lit in

19 your house? Do you know?

20 A. Not necessarily. And I don't

21 know that that was my flashlight . The

22 picture I saw, and I think I commented at

23 the time, was that that one was very dirty.

24 My flashlight, while it looked to be the

25 same size, mine was clean. And my son gave

1 it to me for a present. So that was the

2 issue that I saw. It kind of looks like

3 mine, but it's certainly filthy.

 

[DeeDee249]

And it was lated proved to have not been "filthy" but looked like that in the photos because it had been dusted for prints. Of course, I do not see where the police pointed out this fact to him. They dropped more balls than a juggler with a broken arm.

 

[midwest mama]

And it was lated proved to have not been "filthy" but looked like that in the photos because it had been dusted for prints. Of course, I do not see where the police pointed out this fact to him. They dropped more balls than a juggler with a broken arm.

Another good example of JR being such a 'neat freak'. How does a flashlight dusted for prints equate to "filthy"? An over-dramatization on JR's part, I'd say.

 

[DeeDee249]

Another good example of JR being such a 'neat freak'. How does a flashlight dusted for prints equate to "filthy"? An over-dramatization on JR's part, I'd say.

He was shown the flashlight in a crime photo. Of course, he KNEW it was his. He may or may not have been aware that it was fingerprint dusting on the flashlight, but he knew it was his, and his comment was just another way to distance himself from the flashlight and the crime. They even tried to say that a box of tissue wasn't theirs, either. Same for the bowl and spoon.
Believe me, if they could have, they would have said they had no idea who that dead little girl in the basement was. They had one just like her, but theirs wasn't stiff and cold, so that couldn't be their little girl.

 

[midwest mama]

Good post, DeeDee! I wanted to chuckle at your truthful remark about them having a similar child, but because of the awful truth, I couldn't. Real pieces of work, those R's!!

 

[DeDee]

Opps...it wasn't PMPT where I read that..it was from a link SD posted under strangulation and head wound:
(WS is Dr Werner Spitz)Without seeing his motions,I don't know which way he is saying she was hit with it,front or back.

Dr.WS: I believe that the injury to the head was first, knocked her out. I think everything else here was staging.

LC: Spitz maintains the blow to the head was the central element of the murder, and he carefully studied JB's fatal scull fracture.

Dr.WS: ...? it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable.

LC: The size and shape of the fracture was so distinctive, Spitz decided to conduct his own tests, reenacting the injury.

Dr.WS: You could do it on syrofoam, you could do it on cardboard, you could do it on bone. I did it on all three.

LC: Published reports this week, speculate a baseball bat, found outside the house, might be the murder weapon. Spitz's tests lead him to a weapon inside the house.

Dr.WS: I would certainly believe that the flashlight is the instrument of death.

LC: What makes you so sure that it's compatible. How do you know?

Dr.WS: Because it fits right into the ....?.. It doesn't fit into the defect where it leaves some area to play with. It fits perfectly.

LC: Not any flashlight, but a specific type police reportedly found in the Ramsey home.

Dr.WS: The flashlight was raised above the head of the perpetrater and,a hand down,...with this portion , this wide, breaking the bone.

Dr. Werner Spitz was clear about his opinion of the flashlight being the most consistent weapon to cause JonBenet's severely debilitating head injury.

 

[DeDee]

BBM

I have been lurking. :chicken:

Putting batteries in a flashlight/or taking them out to wipe off. I don't think I could do that without getting fingerprints on them somewhere. Now if I had gloves on..............

And if you(any prudent person) would expect fingerprints on the flashlight, where were the rest of the finger prints in the house of this 'someone".

I would love to see examples of how others would write a ramson note. I just don't feel I could or would write three pages if I was trying to hide something.

The history of the ransom note is intriguing. The contents of the practice RN took some time and thought. The final draft of the RN shows that the author was able to become bold, sarcastic, condescending, mocking all while remembering previous quotes from scenes of popular movies and books.

The 3pg RN did not have everyone's fingerprints on it bc everyone [Patsy and John] was afraid to touch it. John should have jerked it up and shook it at her while asking what she had done to his daughter.

There is no reasonable doubt that gloves were used, at least part of the time, such as, while wiping off the flashlight and batteries, during the commission of this crime. Lack of prints on the RN also rouse suspicions of gloves being worn.

OMO

 

[DeDee]

They could have hid it in John's golf bag, which is where I believe JB ORIGINAL panties that she wore to the WHITES, was stashed.

I have seen this statement on the internet about the Rs hiding evidence in the golf bag and Pam Paugh would bring the golf bag out of the house during her raid on the home on the 27th.

While I remain outraged that PP was allowed to gain entry, I do not feel she knowingly removed evidence, per request. Not sure about these days; however, PP maintained a shrine to JBR in her home with all types of memorabilia.

Some damning evidence is missing, ie., the source for the brown fibers. Evidence was hidden somewhere very well.

Is it possible the partially used paint cans in the concrete WC also contained a pair of size 6 girl's underwear or roll of masking tape?

OMO

 

[otg]

Dr. Werner Spitz was clear about his opinion of the flashlight being the most consistent weapon to cause JonBenet's severely debilitating head injury.

Dr. Spitz was clearly wrong about much (not all) of what he has stated. Your quote can be found within this article from March, 2000. In it, he claims to have "reviewed more than 100 autopsy photos which have never been released to the public," and yet he makes the preposterous claim that, "it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable." Granted, he may have seen other photos that we do not have access to, but in the one autopsy photo of her skull that was leaked you can plainly see that the shape of the missing piece of skull was elliptical. Further, it does not have a single piece of bone attached on a "hinge" that was "bendable". The single "piece of bone" was described in the autopsy as a "comminuted fracture". From Wikipedia:

A depressed skull fracture is a type of fracture usually resulting from blunt force trauma, such as getting struck with a hammer, rock or getting kicked in the head. These types of fractures, which occur in 11% of severe head injuries, are comminuted fractures in which broken bones are displaced inward.
​

(There is a photo on that page (skull fracture) showing a depressed skull fracture with comminuted bone.)

Seeing Spitz's "work" in the Caylee Anthony and Phil Spector cases, I don't see a reason anyone should even look to him for real answers. (BTW, that's him in the avatar I'm using now showing how the blow was struck. Try pushing the end of a flashlight into clay or mud and see if you can get an impression shaped like that of JonBenet's depressed fracture.)

 

[MyBelle]

Dr. Werner Spitz was clear about his opinion of the flashlight being the most consistent weapon to cause JonBenet's severely debilitating head injury.

Wasn't he or one of the other pathologists also of the opinion that whomever had penetrated JB digitally was wearing gloves? If the flashlight was wiped down it had to be by someone wearing rubber gloves.

Most adults keep those huge flashlights not in the basement but in an easily accessible part of the house in case of power failure. Do you know where the flashlight was found?

 

[MyBelle]

BBM



The history of the ransom note is intriguing. The contents of the practice RN took some time and thought. The final draft of the RN shows that the author was able to become bold, sarcastic, condescending, mocking all while remembering previous quotes from scenes of popular movies and books.

The 3pg RN did not have everyone's fingerprints on it bc everyone [Patsy and John] was afraid to touch it. John should have jerked it up and shook it at her while asking what she had done to his daughter.

There is no reasonable doubt that gloves were used, at least part of the time, such as, while wiping off the flashlight and batteries, during the commission of this crime. Lack of prints on the RN also rouse suspicions of gloves being worn.

OMO

ITA. It took someone with intelligence to know the batteries needed to be wiped down. That clearly points to John Ramsey and the flashlight being the weapon because LE would have expected an adult in that household's prints to be on the batteries. A 9-year-old didn't load those batteries.

JMO

 

[DeDee]

Dr. Spitz was clearly wrong about much (not all) of what he has stated. Your quote can be found within this article from March, 2000. In it, he claims to have "reviewed more than 100 autopsy photos which have never been released to the public," and yet he makes the preposterous claim that, "it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable." Granted, he may have seen other photos that we do not have access to, but in the one autopsy photo of her skull that was leaked you can plainly see that the shape of the missing piece of skull was elliptical. Further, it does not have a single piece of bone attached on a "hinge" that was "bendable". The single "piece of bone" was described in the autopsy as a "comminuted fracture". From Wikipedia:

A depressed skull fracture is a type of fracture usually resulting from blunt force trauma, such as getting struck with a hammer, rock or getting kicked in the head. These types of fractures, which occur in 11% of severe head injuries, are comminuted fractures in which broken bones are displaced inward.
​

(There is a photo on that page (skull fracture) showing a depressed skull fracture with comminuted bone.)

Seeing Spitz's "work" in the Caylee Anthony and Phil Spector cases, I don't see a reason anyone should even look to him for real answers. (BTW, that's him in the avatar I'm using now showing how the blow was struck. Try pushing the end of a flashlight into clay or mud and see if you can get an impression shaped like that of JonBenet's depressed fracture.)

Your intensive investigative forensic work on the weapon that caused JonBenet's head injury is impressive. I salute your wisdom.

More than anything, the allegation that the flashlight was the weapon responsible for the head injury was the main point as I agree about the way Dr. WS self-destructed before our very eyes in the cases referenced.

We are missing copious amounts of CS images. If we saw more of them, we could line them up with the Rs interviews and study the stun gun theory, in more detail, as well as possibly answer questions like what happened to the size 4-6 panties when the ENORMOUS size 12s were slipped onto JonBenet.

Since the long johns do not possess PRs TDNA, then did she wear gloves as these lj's were placed on JBR? If so, did JonBenet change into nightwear and go to bed after arriving home from the White's party and the lj's were put on JBR just before death while wearing gloves?

Re: that bundled red turtleneck shirt JBR did not wish to wear on the 25th maybe PR made her wear to bed so she would be partially dressed for the early morning flight that never took place.

Which room of the hellhole was she clobbered over the head with the flashlight? Assuming the killer obtained the torch from the drawer close to the main floor's telephone. The phone PR used the dial 911. Correct.

If the flashlight had not been used since received as a gift over a year earlier, then someone made certain the flashlight had fresh batteries that fateful night.

I would be amiss if I did not comment on your fabulous avatar of Dr. Werner Spitz in action.

OMO

 

[otg]

(rs&bbm)

Which room of the hellhole was she clobbered over the head with the flashlight?

I don't think the Maglite was used, but I think the head blow happened in the basement.

Assuming the killer obtained the torch from the drawer close to the main floor's telephone.

That's where they claimed that theirs had been kept.

The phone PR used the dial 911.

That's what I dispute. I think the 911 call was made from the identical phone in the basement that lay on a utility table in the laundry room.

 

[DeeDee249]

Wasn't he or one of the other pathologists also of the opinion that whomever had penetrated JB digitally was wearing gloves? If the flashlight was wiped down it had to be by someone wearing rubber gloves.

Most adults keep those huge flashlights not in the basement but in an easily accessible part of the house in case of power failure. Do you know where the flashlight was found?

The flashlight was found on a counter in the breakfast area. Patsy told police they kept the flashlight in a drawer just off the kitchen. In one of her interviews, LE shows Patsy a photo of that drawer, which was OPEN and did not contain the flashlight. As there was no other flashlight found, LE suggests that the "dirty" one that they "had one just like" was, in fact, theirs.

It has long been suggested that the "birefringent" (reflective) material found inside BJ's vagina may have been talc of the type found on latex gloves. Patsy used such gloves when coloring her hair, and I believe similar gloves were found in Patsy's bathroom. Unfortunately, the actual substance described as "birefringent" was never publicly identified. It has been variously thought to be wood shards from the paintbrush, paint flakes from the paintbrush, or talc. There was also cellulose found, which could represent splinters from the paintbrush.
I don't know if the coroner ever determined what the "birefringent" material was. If he did, it wasn't revealed.

That being said, I don't agree with Wecht's theories about this case as far as which came first- head blow or ligature. Bashing her after death (or while she was already unconscious) makes NO sense to me at all. Not to mention that the angle of the blow and the damage it caused to her skull suggests she was standing or sitting, not lying down. What reason would there be to bash her after she was strangled? The head bash left no visible indication that it had happened. Even the coroner (and LE attending the autopsy) were surprised to find the fracture and skull damage. To me, it makes much more sense that she was bashed first, to shut her up.