The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[BeachBods]

These bodies were dumped due to the convenience of the parties they were in attendance of. The location of these beach front graves holds real significance to the man who started placing these bodies and who may have inspired a copycat with loose ties to the white privieged neighborhood he could not be a part of due to his social and economic status.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Thank you for replying to me with this theory. I didn’t know that Dr. Michael Baden attached the caveat of the results being insufficient to determine cause of death in the case of Shannan Gilbert. Therefore I can agree that there is a possibility that she may not be a murder victim. However, due to the fact that her personal belongings, most significantly her jeans, were found in a different area, and the fact that a person of interest, Joeseph Brewer, had a motive, I still believe that foul play may be involved in her death.

Regarding the Gilgo Beach 4 and the other unidentified bodies. I believe these murders were committed by different people. I belive the Gilgo Beach 4 were murdered by Unsub, whose psychological profile I documented in my original post. The time frame matches and the modus operandi is identical. The others, including Asian Male, I believe were murdered at a much earlier time, with a different modus operandi, (dismemberment), and by a different psychological profile with certain similarities. The case of Asian Male seems to be a different situation than the rest. Asian Male was not strangled but was murdered by blunt force trauma to the head. My theory regarding Asian Male is that he met the killer of the unidentified persons, peaches and Jessica Taylor, and when the killer discovered that he was transvestite, he was enraged and beat him to death. I’ve touched lightly on the reports of John Bittrolf and believe that he could be the one responsible for the murders of the unidentified bodies, peaches and Jessica Taylor, but I will need more analysis.

Regarding the Gilgo Beach 4 many people have stated that the reason they were wrapped in burlap is because of Unsubs access to the material. I can agree that he may have had access to the material, but why would he choose it over something more common than plastic garbage bags. The significance of the burlap to me is that it is symbolic and somewhat ritualistic on the part of Unsub. Burlap in the Bible is symbolic of mourning and repentance. Perhaps Unsub believed that he was somehow saving these girls. Take that with the significance of the phone calls to Amanda Barthelemy. Those who I have discussed this with state that they believe the phone calls were a form of sexual sadism, but maybe Unsub was trying to scare Amanda away from a life of prostitution. I’m going to begin researching John Bittrolf at this point, please share with me any significant information regarding him.

One other interesting fact is that 2008 was a inactive year for Unsub. Perhaps there was a traumatic event in his life in 2008, i.e., the death of a parent or close relative, he was imprisoned or committed to a psychiatric facility, a car accident or other major injury.

 

[BeachBods]

Your grasping it but unsub continued killing even after the door to door search for Shannon. He's brazen enough to know these bodies had the potential to be stumbled upon at any time up until shannon was found. He had the time and access to further conceal his trophies and did nothing with it. His ties to the mass location of his grave are his legacy.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Your grasping it but unsub continued killing even after the door to door search for Shannon. He's brazen enough to know these bodies had the potential to be stumbled upon at any time up until shannon was found. He had the time and access to further conceal his trophies and did nothing with it. His ties to the mass location of his grave are his legacy.

Unless Unsub was unaware of the case of Shannan Gilbert until the increase in media coverage after the first bodies were discovered in December of 2010.

 

[BeachBods]

That would imply unsub was not present for the door to door search for Shannon. If he was not present he would not likely be an oak beach resident. The master of ceremonies not being the actual host of these parties or having no real tie to this neighborhood seems unlikely.

 

[White_Rabbit]

That would imply unsub was not present for the door to door search for Shannon. If he was not present he would not likely be an oak beach resident. The master of ceremonies not being the actual host of these parties or having no real tie to this neighborhood seems unlikely.

It would seem unlikely only if you believe Shannan Gilbert and the Gilgo Beach 4 were killed by the same person. Though I believe it is not out of the realm of possibility that Unsub is responsible for the death of Shannan Gilbert, I feel it would be a major coincidence.

 

[BeachBods]

The gb4 in my opinion is one person. I don' feel this person evolved and changed his style of killing. I feel Shannon may have come across the beast while picking up a sketchy prescription in the middle of the night but to say the beast came across her and dumped her right in his own backyard is unlikely. People need to look closer at the man fueling these drug fueled parties and keeping them going when the cocaine runs out and they need to come down. The amount of questionable presciptions he'd dole out to people at oddball hours of the night not raising red flags with dea alone makes me wonder.

 

[White_Rabbit]

The gb4 in my opinion is one person. I don' feel this person evolved and changed his style of killing. I feel Shannon may have come across the beast while picking up a sketchy prescription in the middle of the night but to say the beast came across her and dumped her right in his own backyard is unlikely. People need to look closer at the man fueling these drug fueled parties and keeping them going when the cocaine runs out and they need to come down. The amount of questionable presciptions he'd dole out to people at oddball hours of the night not raising red flags with dea alone makes me wonder.

I absolutely agree that the Gilgo Beach 4 were killed by the same person. A witness stated that Joseph Brewer and Shannan Gilbert left his residence for approximately 15 minutes. I don’t believe they left Oak Beach. The trip to CVS in West Islip is roughly 15 minutes one way. I’m speculating but perhaps they went to buy illegal drugs from a local dealer. I agree that Joseph Brewer, Michael Pak & Peter Hackett need to be disposed under oath by a thorough and skilled attorney in order to find out the truth about Shannan Gilbert’s death. Hopefully the wrongful death lawsuit being pursued by Mr. John Ray will put all 3 on the stand. In my opinion Michael Pak is negligent in the death of Shannan Gilbert.

If what I’m reading about John Bittrolf is accurate it certainly points toward him being responsible for at least some of the unidentified bodies and Jessica Taylor.

That leaves us with the Gilgo Beach 4 and identifying Unsub.

 

[BeachBods]

Dr feel good and bittleroff engaging in a body dumping competition that's interesting. I feel like bittleroff may have been in attendance in At least one of these drug fueled parties with girls present. I feel like he grew and felt a strong connection to men at these parties bc he had also before got off on his own aggessiveness to escorts. He hasnt been actively hunting like lisk for years now and is deserate to fit in and keep himself relevant. So is it possible he brings some of his trophies to oak beach?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Dr feel good and bittleroff engaging in a body dumping competition that's interesting. I feel like bittleroff may have been in attendance in At least one of these drug fueled parties with girls present. I feel like he grew and felt a strong connection to men at these parties bc he had also before felt an aggessiveness to escorts. He hasnt been actively hunting like lisk for years now and is deserate to fit in and keep himself relevant. So is it possible he brings some of his trophies to oak beach?

I’m still reading about John Bittrolf. He lived in Manorville. Witnesses have stated that he was a hunter and mutilated animals. The is significant to the modus operandi of dismemberment in the cases of Jessica Taylor, peaches and some of the other unidentified bodies.

This is an interesting forum regarding John Bittrolf:

Caught!? Long Island Serial Killer suspect - Casebook Forums

 

[BeachBods]

When you look at John bittleroff wikipedia it lists his victims as 2-3+. It also lists Sandra costilla as being a possible victim of his strictly because of the timing of her death regardless of her background. Her body was found also with wood chips just like his other 2 victims 18 days after the body of his second victim. KEEP IN MIND sandra was the only victim in this investigation not alleged to to be a sex worker. All 3 bodies were found strangled and badly beaten but sandras body was the only one found mutilated. I remember reading here on websleuth that sandra had been planning to meet a doctor alleged by her friends although i can not find an actual article stating this. If this were true it could be the link that shows the competition between oak beach Dr Feel good n bittleroff began in the early 90s.

 

[Breaking Bad]

I absolutely agree that the Gilgo Beach 4 were killed by the same person. A witness stated that Joseph Brewer and Shannan Gilbert left his residence for approximately 15 minutes. I don’t believe they left Oak Beach. The trip to CVS in West Islip is roughly 15 minutes one way. I’m speculating but perhaps they went to buy illegal drugs from a local dealer. I agree that Joseph Brewer, Michael Pak & Peter Hackett need to be disposed under oath by a thorough and skilled attorney in order to find out the truth about Shannan Gilbert’s death. Hopefully the wrongful death lawsuit being pursued by Mr. John Ray will put all 3 on the stand. In my opinion Michael Pak is negligent in the death of Shannan Gilbert.

If what I’m reading about John Bittrolf is accurate it certainly points toward him being responsible for at least some of the unidentified bodies and Jessica Taylor.

That leaves us with the Gilgo Beach 4 and identifying Unsub.

Yes, if the police or the SCDA knew sex trafficking law, which
oh my god - they DO

they would have charged Pak with involuntary manslaugher.

Unfortunately, John Ray knows NOTHING of Sex Trafficking law,
only calling the pressers for his close ups as he is as narcissistic as
one can be in this crazy world.

If you are poor, you hire John Ray.

If you are Rich - you hire James O'Rourke who is Thomas Spota's
ex law partner when they were in a law firm together before Spota was DA.

Hackett has James O'Rourke who is mad brilliant
and the deceased Shannan
and the deceased Mari Gilbert
have that jack in the box clown John Ray.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Yes, if the police or the SCDA knew sex trafficking law, which
oh my god - they DO

they would have charged Pak with involuntary manslaugher.

Unfortunately, John Ray knows NOTHING of Sex Trafficking law,
only calling the pressers for his close ups as he is as narcissistic as
one can be in this crazy world.

If you are poor, you hire John Ray.

If you are Rich - you hire James O'Rourke who is Thomas Spota's
ex law partner when they were in a law firm together before Spota was DA.

Hackett has James O'Rourke who is mad brilliant
and the deceased Shannan
and the deceased Mari Gilbert
have that jack in the box clown John Ray.

Prosecuting Involuntary manslaughter would fall under the District Attorney. Mr. John Ray would not be able to press that charge against him. A private attorney would need to file a wrongful death suit as Mr. John Ray has done against Peter Hackett. Whether or not Mr. John Ray is a quality attorney it seems he is all that Shannan Gilbert and her family have to advance the case, and I’m rooting for him.

 

[BeachBods]

John Rays been grasping at pulling a rabbit out of a hat that just isn't there. Hes recklessly thrown people under the bus with no actual evidence in his last attempts to keep this case relevant. I agree with you entirely on this but who else is keeping this case relevant. John Ray is not a bad lawyer though. This guy made a promise to Shannons dead mother to bring justice to Shannon. Although I do not agree with his slander of james bisset who isn't even alive to defend his reputation. Hes' pulling our every trick in his book he has to keep this case in the media. His attempts to depose the doc, Burke are wastes of time. These 2 are born liars skilled and intelligent enough to even beat the poly. It never added up to me why the doc never agreed to the poly. Between JB and MP he's clearly the only one intelligent enough to beat the poly.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Dr feel good and bittleroff engaging in a body dumping competition that's interesting. I feel like bittleroff may have been in attendance in At least one of these drug fueled parties with girls present. I feel like he grew and felt a strong connection to men at these parties bc he had also before got off on his own aggessiveness to escorts. He hasnt been actively hunting like lisk for years now and is deserate to fit in and keep himself relevant. So is it possible he brings some of his trophies to oak beach?

I assume “Dr. Feel Good” is Peter Hackett. I don’t believe that he fits the profile of a Serial Killer.

 

[White_Rabbit]

John Rays been grasping at pulling a rabbit out of a hat that just isn't there. Hes recklessly thrown people under the bus with no actual evidence in his last attempts to keep this case relevant. I agree with you entirely on this but who else is keeping this case relevant. John Ray is not a bad lawyer though. This guy made a promise to Shannons dead mother to bring justice to Shannon. Although I do not agree with his slander of james bisset who isn't even alive to defend his reputation. Hes' pulling our every trick in his book he has to keep this case in the media. His attempts to depose the doc, Burke are wastes of time. These 2 are born liars skilled and intelligent enough to even beat the poly. It never added up to me why the doc never agreed to the poly. Between JB and MP he's clearly the only one intelligent enough to beat the poly.

The most important things that Mr. John Ray can do at this point is have Shannan Gilbert’s 911 call released, and to put the persons of interest under oath so that they could possibly face perjury charges for lying.

 

[BeachBods]

Well JB and MP don' fit the profile at all. I know the facts and Hackett can't even be placed in the country during the disappearances of some girls. I don't think he's capable of 16 total bodies either. I feel like someone picked up the slack while the doc was not around and carried on the hunt without him.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Well JB and MP don' fit the profile at all. I know the facts and Hackett can't even be placed in the country during the disappearances of some girls. I don't think he's capable of 16 total bodies either. I feel like someone picked up the slack while the doc was not around and carried on the hunt without him.

I agree with you that Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak do not fit the profile. I’m not sure what you mean when you say “someone picked up the slack while the doc was not around and carried on the hunt without him.” Are you suggesting that he is responsible for some of the murders? I don’t feel like he fits the profile either, and can’t see him as being a murderer or an accomplice.

 

[BeachBods]

I followed these forums for 3 years now without making a single post until today. See nobody wants their name even slightly tied to this case. So these other people at this parties of JB's or where Burke was present aren't talking at all. I have been actively trying expose the source of the amount of prescription drugs that were being fueled into this small community by one "go to 24/7" man. I'm almost certain this is the man capable of being complicit in drugging some of these victims. HIPPA regulations is protecting and enabling his patients from ever being exposed as patients of his.

 

[LR1]

Regarding the Gilgo Beach 4 and the other unidentified bodies. I believe these murders were committed by different people. I belive the Gilgo Beach 4 were murdered by Unsub, whose psychological profile I documented in my original post. The time frame matches and the modus operandi is identical. The others, including Asian Male, I believe were murdered at a much earlier time, with a different modus operandi, (dismemberment), and by a different psychological profile with certain similarities. The case of Asian Male seems to be a different situation than the rest. Asian Male was not strangled but was murdered by blunt force trauma to the head. My theory regarding Asian Male is that he met the killer of the unidentified persons, peaches and Jessica Taylor, and when the killer discovered that he was transvestite, he was enraged and beat him to death. I’ve touched lightly on the reports of John Bittrolf and believe that he could be the one responsible for the murders of the unidentified bodies, peaches and Jessica Taylor, but I will need more analysis.

I try to not get too far off in the weeds and it's helpful to not overthink and overcomplicate an otherwise straightforward set of serial killings. Forget about the differences in what was done after he murdered them for a moment. Pretend we don't know how they were found just that we have at least 5 sex workers, either full or partial sets and the potential of another 4 all found on the parkway at around the same time with postmortem intervals spanning 14 years.

We know how most must have been treated while in his presence and the outcome was exactly the same. Now, put yourself in the killers head back in 2000 when he left a murder victim, Jane doe #6, butchered in bags in manorville with her identifying parts brought to the Gilgo area 30 something miles away. Three years later JT turns up in similar fashion in manorville, again with her identifying parts brought to Gilgo and placed about a mile to the west from the parts that were placed three years earlier. We don't know who the Jane doe was but we know JT and that she was likely picked up in midtown. So skip ahead four years and Maureen is last seen in the midtown area and is later found 40 miles away again at Gilgo and again about a mile to the west of JT's partial set. Similar timing and similar spacing. Same last known location, same location found. Same victimology same victim description, young and white. All six killed by a serial killer and In my opinion he was one and the same.

With all the places to dump a body from midtown and beyond, Maureen was brought to a place where he knew from personal experience she could be dumped without being seen and a place where she would go undiscovered. No need to cut them up to hinder identification if they're not being found. I think it's those possibly 3-4 dormant years between Jessica and Maureen that will one day make sense of the differences in what was done after death. btw Asian male was thought to have a postmortem of at least 5 years so around 2006 give or take is when he was killed.

All my humble opinion.