The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think LISK evolved over time on many levels.
He may have started out picking up sex workers from the street or from strip clubs. But there are many variables in this method of hunting. LISK likes to mantain a controlled environment.

If you subscribe to the theory that the murders, spanning Suffolk, far into Nassau (and possibly even AC) and over the course of decades, are the work of one killer, then it's hard to ignore the steady progression of control, planning, precision.
(I personally think that a few victims were actually not the work of LISK but were gang related and/or sex workers murdered by pimps. But not many and I digress.)

I do not believe LISK is or ever was a pimp. I believe he is familiar with the sex work industry and knows that it is an ideal demographic for him; many sex workers, especially in the early 90s when I think LISK began his "path", are without a stable family family life and therefore no one takes notice when they disappear.
Another reason LISK would prefer this demographic is that female sex workers, (whether exotic dancers, escorts, adult film actors/content creators etc) enter into a consensual business relationship with a client in which their femininity is objectified, often fetishized. It's a financial agreement to act as the ultimate Object of the Male Gaze. This suited LISK because it fed a silent rage seething deep inside of him toward women. It also allowed him to feel dominant when in real life he may have been the opposite both sexually, professionally, socially and physically.

As an aside, I'd be interested to know if anyone is aware of any information that pointed to any kind of multilation to the breasts or genital area of victims as well as any information regarding posing of any victims. I realize it may have been impossible to tell by the time many of the bodies were found. But I would expect someone like LISK to want to destroy his victims' femininity through multilation due to his hatred of the female and I expect some kind of posing as a reflection of his need to both degrade and inflict the ultimate control on his victims. Perhaps this can be seen in the GB4 I suppose. The precise placing exhibits control. Plus I know Dormer was quoted early on as saying he believed LISK was particularly "brutal" due to observations he would not disclose pertaining to 2 of the GB4. Sorry for the tangent...

So to clarify, I think LISK started out as a patron of sex workers. I have no idea what triggered his first kill.
Usually when a person develops a psychological/behaivoural disorder it can be traced back to their formative years. There is deep rage against women in LISK's case.
Imo this began manifesting in the early 90s. Strip clubs may have led to picking up sex workers off the street.
I am split for many reasons on LISK's career. I grew up in Manhattan but spent summers in Suffolk county beach towns. I remember from a young age overhearing the adults shaking their heads talking about SCPD being the highest paid PD in the country and then going on to discuss aspects of the department that were less than admirable. From Lowrita to Loeb to Oheka Castle and on and on, SCPD certainly has its dirty laundry.
But there is a big part of me that suspects that (at least during the 90s) LISK maintained some kind of job in Manhattan. It may have been in law enforcement or not.
(There is also a part of me that wonders if LISK could have served in the military at some point - deployment to Iraq, gets home around 93, starts either a civillian job in manhattan or possibly works for the military in capacity of something like Army Corps of Engineers...maybe projects would include combatting beach erosion...constructing jetties out of sand and burlap... but that's another post.)
If he was in fact working in Manhattan in the 90s I think he worked between 14th Street and 59th Street (southern to northern perimeter) and between Lexington Avenue and 7th Avenue (eastern to western perimeter). There are no facts that I have to back this up. Probably about 50 diferent tiny details that have accumulated in my subconcious over the years about this case that have led me to this belief.
I think LISK grew up in either Queens, or Long Island. He never lived in Manhattan and wouldve had to commute by train or car. I happen to believe he commuted by car. He knew Long Island. If he didnt live in Babylon I think he had family there and visited often. I think he hung out in the Gilgo Beach Marina. (Opinion. Not fact)

LISK was able to control himself during the first few years of encounters as he familiarized himself with the sex industry. But at no time did he ever look at these women with anything but hate and rage. He considered himself above them (and women in general) in all ways. He is a chameleon, able to mirror the behaivour of those around him in order to mask his true persona in any environment. He uses this skill in all parts of life - from work to social to family to "H&H" (hobbying and hunting).
If he did not serve in the military, I think his first kill was probably a sex worker he picked up off the street in Manhattan between 1991 and 1994. Probably in the West 30s/40s or on the East Side on Park Avenue in the East 20s. Late night. Most sex workers wouldnt be working on the street until at least midnight.
He most likely fantasized about it, for years, planned it perfectly. But once he picked her up in his vehicle all of his planning went out the window. It was probably frenzied and messy. And once it was over he was probably flooded with adrenaline and panic, as many captured serial killers have reported feeling directly after their first kill. I think his first kill took place in his vehicle. And then he drove (with the body) to a place where he could relax, a place he knew, where he felt comfortable, so he could really enjoy his "first time", uninterrupted. I think he drove to Long Island, somewhere near the beach. Somewhere quiet. His safe place.

I think he dismembered his victims for the first few years. As we know many earlier victims were not only dismembered but they were then scattered. This is the work of someone taking precautions - you take precautions when you feel there is a threat to you - in this case LISK had started killing and was trying to avoid any attention. But as the world and technology evolved, so did LISK's experience, technique and confidence.
The internet allowed him to construct a much more controlled environment for himself. And by the time the GB4 were found, LISK had stopped dismembering altogether and had in fact, at least according to comments made by Dormer in at least one very early interview (which I think he prob got into some hot water for), begun to keep some of his victims to "play" with them. When asked to clarify whether he was insinuating that LISK "played" with his victims before or after he had murdered them, Dormer replied "Both".
LISK deeply hates women. One would have to know his formative and teenage years/early 20s to know why.
He began disguising himself as a patron of sex workers, just a guy looking for a good time. But inside, he looked at these women with a terrifying amount of violent rage. Strip clubs after work may have led to pickups off the street and then outcalls from the internet.
I think he leaned toward those specializing in bdsm who would take on the submissive role in an encounter. He has tremendous sadistic proclivities.
I also think he did have a fairly decent career which validated his view of himself. He was better. They were "*advertiser censored*". Less than human in his opinion. I'd be interested to know what sorts of relationships he had in his personal and work life with women. I'd guess he wasn't knocking it out of the ballpark in terms of dating. His mother was either overbearing and constantly making him feel less than or she abandoned him.

I dont think area codes were a part of his thought process. Many sex workers will travel for the weekend from a different state. Many have burner phones with different area codes. I think the factors he looked for were that his victims were within a reasonable distance to him at the time and were somewhat experienced with bdsm and were on the submissive side of the spectrum (or willing to act the part for clients). It's often said many of his victims were on the petite side. Im not sure if this is only in reference to the GB4. He might need petite girls in order to feel like he's dominating them. He might be a smaller than average man (in both stature and elsewhere). Or, as many have posited he chose petite females bc they were easy to carry - which would mean he's weak, has an injury of some sort or is simply aging.
Whether he's 5 foot 5 with a micropenis, just plain weak or old or all of the above, he hates women and he will be caught no matter how hard certain ppl try to impede his capture to protect their own reputations or honour ceratain alliances. Imo, it'll prob have nothing to do w SG's 911 call. It'll prob end up being some sort of famililial dna match. Either the old guard will eventually all die off and some new eyes will look at the case or the fbi will do something
(Me in my head at every juncture of the investigation of this case since the beginning :
"You had one job!!")
 
I love this! You are spot on! What do you think about the belt initials? Do you think it was a word and the other letters disappeared? Do you think it’s the initials to something?
 
I think it was someone who had buyers remorse with having to buy sex. He probably felt less than a man. Maybe he called girls with out of state phone numbers bc he knew they would be away from family/friends. Maybe he’s seen them more than once. Maybe he even tried to pimp them to make him feel more manly. What do you think?
 
What do you think of the doctor,who just got arrested for trading drugs for sex? It’s all in the paper -doctor Spencer- look him up. He was in an official car
 
As far as I remember the belt was left very ambiguous. Hart claimed it was "handled" by an unknown suspect and did not belong to any of the victims. The term "handled" would lead me to believe DNA was obtained from the belt. I have heard many theories on the initials of the belt. If they are indeed initials I would think they are HM. And that HM might have once been married to a Guy who she later divorced. She might have been connected to good old Lowrita. And where there's Lowrita...well...

But it's hard for me to understand why they chose to release that small piece of evidence when they did.
It's also hard for me to believe lisk would leave his belt.
The only way I could see that happenning is if he was cognitively impaired due to alcohol and/or narcotics.
I also wonder why the buckle was not shown. A buckle would clear up whether it was HM or WH. Perhaps the buckle was not present. A belt can be repurposed for many things, especially if the person doing the repurposing is a sadist.

But at this point, knowing how much the investigation and entire case has been and continues to be compromised, there's a part of me that wonders if the belt was even there in the first place or if it was just a bone scpd was throwing out to the public to show they were making progress and sharing information.
When that press conference was held and they showed the pic of the belt, I was so disheartened. It just seemed like such a nothing burger. But i might be totally wrong. I usually am as a general rule in life ;)
(Apologies for the off topic discussion mods)
 
Exactly! Like if they believe the belt was the killers, why didn’t they tell us the size? To give us a frame of the suspect? Was he XXL? Regular build? Or a small frame suspect?
 
See
Girlinterrupted said:
I think LISK evolved over time on many levels.
Click to expand...
Girlinterrupted said:
He may have started out picking up sex workers from the street or from strip clubs. But there are many variables in this method of hunting. LISK likes to mantain a controlled environment.

If you subscribe to the theory that the murders, spanning Suffolk, far into Nassau (and possibly even AC) and over the course of decades, are the work of one killer, then it's hard to ignore the steady progression of control, planning, precision.
(I personally think that a few victims were actually not the work of LISK but were gang related and/or sex workers murdered by pimps. But not many and I digress.)

I do not believe LISK is or ever was a pimp. I believe he is familiar with the sex work industry and knows that it is an ideal demographic for him; many sex workers, especially in the early 90s when I think LISK began his "path", are without a stable family family life and therefore no one takes notice when they disappear.
Another reason LISK would prefer this demographic is that female sex workers, (whether exotic dancers, escorts, adult film actors/content creators etc) enter into a consensual business relationship with a client in which their femininity is objectified, often fetishized. It's a financial agreement to act as the ultimate Object of the Male Gaze. This suited LISK because it fed a silent rage seething deep inside of him toward women. It also allowed him to feel dominant when in real life he may have been the opposite both sexually, professionally, socially and physically.

As an aside, I'd be interested to know if anyone is aware of any information that pointed to any kind of multilation to the breasts or genital area of victims as well as any information regarding posing of any victims. I realize it may have been impossible to tell by the time many of the bodies were found. But I would expect someone like LISK to want to destroy his victims' femininity through multilation due to his hatred of the female and I expect some kind of posing as a reflection of his need to both degrade and inflict the ultimate control on his victims. Perhaps this can be seen in the GB4 I suppose. The precise placing exhibits control. Plus I know Dormer was quoted early on as saying he believed LISK was particularly "brutal" due to observations he would not disclose pertaining to 2 of the GB4. Sorry for the tangent...

So to clarify, I think LISK started out as a patron of sex workers. I have no idea what triggered his first kill.
Usually when a person develops a psychological/behaivoural disorder it can be traced back to their formative years. There is deep rage against women in LISK's case.
Imo this began manifesting in the early 90s. Strip clubs may have led to picking up sex workers off the street.
I am split for many reasons on LISK's career. I grew up in Manhattan but spent summers in Suffolk county beach towns. I remember from a young age overhearing the adults shaking their heads talking about SCPD being the highest paid PD in the country and then going on to discuss aspects of the department that were less than admirable. From Lowrita to Loeb to Oheka Castle and on and on, SCPD certainly has its dirty laundry.
But there is a big part of me that suspects that (at least during the 90s) LISK maintained some kind of job in Manhattan. It may have been in law enforcement or not.
(There is also a part of me that wonders if LISK could have served in the military at some point - deployment to Iraq, gets home around 93, starts either a civillian job in manhattan or possibly works for the military in capacity of something like Army Corps of Engineers...maybe projects would include combatting beach erosion...constructing jetties out of sand and burlap... but that's another post.)
If he was in fact working in Manhattan in the 90s I think he worked between 14th Street and 59th Street (southern to northern perimeter) and between Lexington Avenue and 7th Avenue (eastern to western perimeter). There are no facts that I have to back this up. Probably about 50 diferent tiny details that have accumulated in my subconcious over the years about this case that have led me to this belief.
I think LISK grew up in either Queens, or Long Island. He never lived in Manhattan and wouldve had to commute by train or car. I happen to believe he commuted by car. He knew Long Island. If he didnt live in Babylon I think he had family there and visited often. I think he hung out in the Gilgo Beach Marina. (Opinion. Not fact)

LISK was able to control himself during the first few years of encounters as he familiarized himself with the sex industry. But at no time did he ever look at these women with anything but hate and rage. He considered himself above them (and women in general) in all ways. He is a chameleon, able to mirror the behaivour of those around him in order to mask his true persona in any environment. He uses this skill in all parts of life - from work to social to family to "H&H" (hobbying and hunting).
If he did not serve in the military, I think his first kill was probably a sex worker he picked up off the street in Manhattan between 1991 and 1994. Probably in the West 30s/40s or on the East Side on Park Avenue in the East 20s. Late night. Most sex workers wouldnt be working on the street until at least midnight.
He most likely fantasized about it, for years, planned it perfectly. But once he picked her up in his vehicle all of his planning went out the window. It was probably frenzied and messy. And once it was over he was probably flooded with adrenaline and panic, as many captured serial killers have reported feeling directly after their first kill. I think his first kill took place in his vehicle. And then he drove (with the body) to a place where he could relax, a place he knew, where he felt comfortable, so he could really enjoy his "first time", uninterrupted. I think he drove to Long Island, somewhere near the beach. Somewhere quiet. His safe place.

I think he dismembered his victims for the first few years. As we know many earlier victims were not only dismembered but they were then scattered. This is the work of someone taking precautions - you take precautions when you feel there is a threat to you - in this case LISK had started killing and was trying to avoid any attention. But as the world and technology evolved, so did LISK's experience, technique and confidence.
The internet allowed him to construct a much more controlled environment for himself. And by the time the GB4 were found, LISK had stopped dismembering altogether and had in fact, at least according to comments made by Dormer in at least one very early interview (which I think he prob got into some hot water for), begun to keep some of his victims to "play" with them. When asked to clarify whether he was insinuating that LISK "played" with his victims before or after he had murdered them, Dormer replied "Both".
LISK deeply hates women. One would have to know his formative and teenage years/early 20s to know why.
He began disguising himself as a patron of sex workers, just a guy looking for a good time. But inside, he looked at these women with a terrifying amount of violent rage. Strip clubs after work may have led to pickups off the street and then outcalls from the internet.
I think he leaned toward those specializing in bdsm who would take on the submissive role in an encounter. He has tremendous sadistic proclivities.
I also think he did have a fairly decent career which validated his view of himself. He was better. They were "*advertiser censored*". Less than human in his opinion. I'd be interested to know what sorts of relationships he had in his personal and work life with women. I'd guess he wasn't knocking it out of the ballpark in terms of dating. His mother was either overbearing and constantly making him feel less than or she abandoned him.

I dont think area codes were a part of his thought process. Many sex workers will travel for the weekend from a different state. Many have burner phones with different area codes. I think the factors he looked for were that his victims were within a reasonable distance to him at the time and were somewhat experienced with bdsm and were on the submissive side of the spectrum (or willing to act the part for clients). It's often said many of his victims were on the petite side. Im not sure if this is only in reference to the GB4. He might need petite girls in order to feel like he's dominating them. He might be a smaller than average man (in both stature and elsewhere). Or, as many have posited he chose petite females bc they were easy to carry - which would mean he's weak, has an injury of some sort or is simply aging.
Whether he's 5 foot 5 with a micropenis, just plain weak or old or all of the above, he hates women and he will be caught no matter how hard certain ppl try to impede his capture to protect their own reputations or honour ceratain alliances. Imo, it'll prob have nothing to do w SG's 911 call. It'll prob end up being some sort of famililial dna match. Either the old guard will eventually all die off and some new eyes will look at the case or the fbi will do something
(Me in my head at every juncture of the investigation of this case since the beginning :
"You had one job!!")
Click to expand...
ManhattanCrystal said:
I think it was someone who had buyers remorse with having to buy sex. He probably felt less than a man. Maybe he called girls with out of state phone numbers bc he knew they would be away from family/friends. Maybe he’s seen them more than once. Maybe he even tried to pimp them to make him feel more manly. What do you think?
Click to expand...
 
One min suspect in my book went to Brooklyn and got caught twice and let go twice by NYPD. He is believed to go into Manhattan with another suspect with the same initials
ManhattanCrystal said:
What do you think of the doctor,who just got arrested for trading drugs for sex? It’s all in the paper -doctor Spencer- look him up. He was in an official car
Click to expand...
I think he was just trying to get laid on the Cheap. But that's when things can go terribly wrong.
 
Latest word is Spota will NOT be sentenced tomorrow. Justice delayed is justice denied.
 
GIRL I - I was wondering how you picked that Handle to post your messages.
 
hawkshaw said:
GIRL I - I was wondering how you picked that Handle to post your messages.
Click to expand...
I just liked the title of the book; the choice of words always struck me as clever. Wish I could take credit but alas :/
What about your handle?

Remember, remember! The Fifth of November...
 
Some old friend who knew I was a NYPD detective called me Hawkshaw which in olden times in the UK is what they called them.

5th of November. Not this year. Putting it off again
 
hawkshaw said:
Your Lisk profile I can make a case for Burke. Am I right?
Click to expand...
I certainly wouldn't want to be locked in a room or vehicle with him...I think anyone who has been in close proximity to him while he's "socializing" would agree. You never forget certain people - like coming face to face with evil. You feel it in your stomach - something is very wrong here.

But that's just me speculating, of course.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 158 more.
Total: 2,561 (members: 159, guests: 2,402)

Online statistics

Members online
159
Guests online
2,402
Total visitors
2,561
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
603,420
Messages
18,156,319
Members
231,722
Latest member
GoldenGirl1971
Back
Top