The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[MarkTwang]

Better than this, the property is listed up for sale online that gives you a multitude of interior and exterior photographs and all the house specs. Check that out?

I understand that only 3 people know what happened that evening. Brewer, Pak and Hackett.

I know how these drug and sex trafficking operations work (and how people in them work) and I can weed out the and make a great deal of sense out of the case, quite quickly.

What I want to know is: what was Brewer using this residence for?

A stash house?
Party house?
A lookout point?
A cooking house?

Was he the distributor, the manufacturer, middle man, dealer?

What was his job in the underground and what was he using the property for...and who else involved in the Racket did he work for (besides Ruis).

Pak probably booked it out of there because he had to transport the drugs he picked up at Brewers back to NY or NJ and had to leave before the police arrived.

Personally, I think they're trying to frame Hackett because he knows too much and wants the girls to get straightened out. I don't think Hackett did this. I don't believe Hackett caused her death. I believe Pak and Brewer tried to set him up.

I also think they tried to set up Hackett just like they tried to set up James Burke.

There has to be somebody with that insider information I need on here.

 

[lady gaga]

What happened to your story of Ruis killing Shannan.
Look there is only one person held accountable for Shannan's death and
It is the doc.
So until you have umimpeachable evidence against anyone else,
you're outta gas.
TTYL
You got nuttin'

 

[WINDSOR]

If Brewer was using his house as a drug manufacturing/distribution center, would not have the SCPD in the course of their investigation (supposedly they interviewed and 'cleared' Brewer) discovered the existence of evidence of drug manufacturing/distribution?

Did SCPD search Brewer's house? It only makes sense they did as this is where the 911 calls originated from.

Without some sort of verification I find it difficult to believe Brewer would be manufacturing and distributing drugs from his house, because he had a tenant, and he he had guests regularly at his home. Usually with these sorts of houses, access is carefully limited.

 

[MarkTwang]

What happened to your story of Ruis killing Shannan.
Look there is only one person held accountable for Shannan's death and
It is the doc.
So until you have umimpeachable evidence against anyone else,
you're outta gas.
TTYL
You got nuttin'

Gaga, we are discussing a criminal enterprise and potential racketeering case that consisted of several cogs and wheels and moving components. Conspiracy to commit murder is merely one of those cogs, Ruis is only one of those cogs. I want to know where Ruis got his drugs. I believe one of those places was at 8 The Fairway in Oak Beach.

If you do not know how Racketteering cases work, please look it up.

 

[MarkTwang]

If Brewer was using his house as a drug manufacturing/distribution center, would not have the SCPD in the course of their investigation (supposedly they interviewed and 'cleared' Brewer) discovered the existence of evidence of drug manufacturing/distribution?

Did SCPD search Brewer's house? It only makes sense they did as this is where the 911 calls originated from.

Without some sort of verification I find it difficult to believe Brewer would be manufacturing and distributing drugs from his house, because he had a tenant, and he he had guests regularly at his home. Usually, with these sorts of houses, access is carefully limited.

Depends on what kind of role he played in the larger business. Like I said, concealing a meth lab is super obvious. Cutting cocaine? Making crack? A little less obvious. Making Ecstasy, though, there could be evidence of that with the ammonia smell that was reported. SCPD probably could have sniffed out a meth lab, but what about ecstasy?

Brewer could have used the properties belonging to his family as stash houses or safe houses, he could be in shipping/recieving and distribution as he had access to a dock and the house made an excellent lookout point.

Probably tried extorting Hackett or get him involved in pill milling and failed miserably. That might be why they tried so hard to set him up.

He stated that Pak and Brewer directed him to call Mari. Hackett had no idea she was dead when he placed that call. Pak and Brewer might have known she was dead and coerced him specifically because he would implicate himself. They then had access to the community and could have easily placed her body near his house to further others suspicions. It is too obvious, and it failed.

Yes. I know that is how these houses work. Protecting the property in respect to the larger operation (prostitution/drug trafficking) would most certainly result in death to any threats to it.

We have a great deal of death and I think Shannan knew something and set him off (reminding him of a death that would eventually be discovered on the island).

There is no doubt in my mind she triggered him with this comment about the body of John Doe, nobody at the time even knew about this victim. What if Shannan knew the victim that went missing or maybe she suspected something?

I think he thought she was wired, not transgendered. I think she was killed because she was a witness and a possible informant. She may have heard about John Doe going missing through Michael Pak. Thoughts?

Victim: "John Doe", discovered April 4, 2001
"Another victim on Gilgo would be discovered by authorities who was a male, of Asian descent and dressed as a female. This individual was discovered on April 4, 2011. Doe had blunt force trauma injuries to his face, missing two incisors and two molars. The victim was 5'6" and between 17-23."

​

 

[MarkTwang]

Did SCPD search Brewer's house? It only makes sense they did as this is where the 911 calls originated from

Hey, they did search the house but not until 6 months later when NJ finally got SCPD to investigate, they could have cleaned it up and changed locations by the time the residence was searched.

Brewer and Diaz according to "Lost Girls" went to the police station together after Shannan disappeared. They did not call the PD to the residence right after she went missing. I believe a good deal of time had passed before they searched. Can you clarify?

 

[MarkTwang]

Victim: "John Doe", discovered April 4, 2001
"Another victim on Gilgo would be discovered by authorities who was a male, of Asian descent and dressed as a female. This individual was discovered on April 4, 2011. Doe had blunt force trauma injuries to his face, missing two incisors and two molars. The victim was 5'6" and between 17-23."

Excuse me John Doe was found in 2011 not 2001. This is a typo in my notes. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[mopar1975]

At CVS there could only be OTC items purchased, that late. Cold medicine and batteries would be for meth, and meth has a VERY strong permeating smell. He could not conceal that kind of operation from SCPD. Baby laxative would be purchased for cocaine, baking soda for cooking crack cocaine. Painkillers and opiates would be to cut heroin, however, once again, the pharmacy would not have been open that late.

This is false! This CVS was open for 24 hours a day INCLUDING the pharmacy. I know this because I used to get my prescriptions from them .Controlled substances too!! So yes they could have went there for a refill on a script and/or just to fill a prescription someone wrote out for them even if it were 4 a.m.

 

[MarkTwang]

At CVS there could only be OTC items purchased, that late. Cold medicine and batteries would be for meth, and meth has a VERY strong permeating smell. He could not conceal that kind of operation from SCPD. Baby laxative would be purchased for cocaine, baking soda for cooking crack cocaine. Painkillers and opiates would be to cut heroin, however, once again, the pharmacy would not have been open that late.

This is false! This CVS was open for 24 hours a day INCLUDING the pharmacy. I know this because I used to get my prescriptions from them .Controlled substances too!! So yes they could have went there for a refill on a script and/or just to fill a prescription someone wrote out for them even if it were 4 a.m.

So, you suspect Hackett wrote a Rx for Pak? This is why he isn't talking?

Writing an Rx does not make Hackett a murderer. It puts Pak and Brewer with him, it makes it likely Hackett would release Shannan back into their custody without thinking she might die later because he may have trusted the two men, erroneously.

Doesn't make him a murderer. Makes him a doctor protecting his medical license. Not finding a way to tell us the truth and keep his license makes him an *******, though.

 

[MarkTwang]

At CVS there could only be OTC items purchased, that late. Cold medicine and batteries would be for meth, and meth has a VERY strong permeating smell. He could not conceal that kind of operation from SCPD. Baby laxative would be purchased for cocaine, baking soda for cooking crack cocaine. Painkillers and opiates would be to cut heroin, however, once again, the pharmacy would not have been open that late.

This is false! This CVS was open for 24 hours a day INCLUDING the pharmacy. I know this because I used to get my prescriptions from them .Controlled substances too!! So yes they could have went there for a refill on a script and/or just to fill a prescription someone wrote out for them even if it were 4 a.m.

What drugs? Barbituates? She seemed like she could have taken barbituates. Barbituates are used like truth serum drugs and prior to surgery.

Barbiturate overdose is poisoning due to excessive doses of barbiturates. Symptoms typically include difficulty thinking, poor coordination, decreased level of consciousness, and a decreased effort to breathe (respiratory depression).

She was called out there. Pak went to the pharmacy, maybe Brewer. What Rx was prescribed? LE should have that intel.

Gus Colletti noted her poor coordination and how she kept falling down. I can't think of what else pharmacologically would make her react like that you could get at a pharmacy.

We could go down the organ trafficking route, if you'd like.
Anybody know Shannan's blood type?

She tried to stiff Pak that evening and she tried to stiff her other driver at the new agency right before her death. Reportedly, her pants were found ripped up the leg. They could have definitely thought she was an undercover and responsible for the Ruis bust and wired.

Reportedly, she wasn't like the other girls Ruis had. Smarter, prettier...It was easy to see how she became suspect. Ruis likely turned her over to another agency he was connected with. That agency that Pak and Shannan were working for was *also* eastern European.

Reportedly, she was in an organized crime neighborhood that night (on top of that) but Brewer, to put it gently, doesn't fit in with them.

Here is what I have to say about it: the Italian mob in one's neighborhood--the Italians do NOT like bodies in their backyard. They don't like those kinds of things anywhere near their families. They do a great deal of distancing themselves from their criminal activities.

Despite their reputation, they didn't like unnecessary casualties (particularly women and children, some victims in Long Island are women and children).

KG may live there, but I still maintain this is the product of an Eastern European Mob Racket. They are known for sexually exploiting women in this way. They, also, didn't have an alliance with the Italians, that I know of. They also would have the gall and ego to dump bodies near a Gambino residence.

How this did not cause any retaliation is beyond me. The Italian mob would find this insulting beyond measure, not to mention an implication in homicides and more racketeering.

Shannan was working for an Eastern European and Asian escort agency. They were the only ones mad at her enough to kill her and suspect her of being a rat. Shannan had no beef with the Italians unless that attorney for Ruis, Joe Newman, set it up.

I'm going to do more research on it, but this simply isn't how the Italian's worked.

This is sloppy, like Brewer sloppy. If I am going to be honest, here...nobody in that neighborhood liked him because he was sloppy and loud.

 

[lady gaga]

Spaghetti (the kind you brew)

Brewer is my #1 suspect.

you started out insisting that Ruis (or Ruis's boss) put a hit out on
Shannan so that Shannan could not testify against Ruis at his
trial in Jersey.

You told me Ruis served FIVE out of 7 years that he was sentenced for.
Well the fact of the matter was, Ruis was never facing 7 years in prison.

This case is nothing more than a large jigsaw puzzle.
<modsnip - rude>

 

[MarkTwang]

you started out insisting that Ruis (or Ruis's boss) put a hit out on
Shannan so that Shannan could not testify against Ruis at his
trial in Jersey.

Your grammar is attrocious.

Actually, Gaga, you were the one saying that. I can go to your posts where you and I say very much the same things. Now, you want to tell me what they picked up at the pharmacy that evening...or is it you don't know...but just like to pretend you know?

By all means, Sherlock: Since you have the truth, correct the errors in my speculation.

 

[MarkTwang]

@WINDSOR, is it possible to look at this like a normal homicide. If Shannan were a normal girl and disappeared after calling 911 (disoriented) saying someone was trying to kill her.

Two voices in the background. Pak and Brewer, Pak encounters Colletti, a neighbor, states a girl "ran away" and he needed to "locate her and bring her back to the party".

Now let's pretend the police arrived and they have Brewer and Pak and they care about what went down...who the hell are they going to lock up?

Pak and Brewer. Immediately.

 

[mopar1975]

So, you suspect Hackett wrote a Rx for Pak? This is why he isn't talking?

Writing an Rx does not make Hackett a murderer. It puts Pak and Brewer with him, it makes it likely Hackett would release Shannan back into their custody without thinking she might die later because he may have trusted the two men, erroneously.

Doesn't make him a murderer. Makes him a doctor protecting his medical license. Not finding a way to tell us the truth and keep his license makes him an *******, though.

So, you suspect Hackett wrote a Rx for Pak? This is why he isn't talking?

Writing an Rx does not make Hackett a murderer. It puts Pak and Brewer with him, it makes it likely Hackett would release Shannan back into their custody without thinking she might die later because he may have trusted the two men, erroneously.

Doesn't make him a murderer. Makes him a doctor protecting his medical license. Not finding a way to tell us the truth and keep his license makes him an *******, though.

I never said he was a murderer or that they went and got a prescription.I was just letting you know that anyone could get a prescription and not just OTC meds like you stated. I meant that IF they wanted a prescription they could have got one. I don't know why you think I said that Hackett is a murderer or that he wrote out a script for anyone!. I NEVER said that!! YOU said that IF they got anything from CVS it had to be OTC and not a prescription. I simply just posted that you were incorrect and that ANYONE could get a prescription filled at any time of the night from that CVS. That IS all I said. I NEVER said Hackett was a murderer or that he wrote out a script.

 

[MarkTwang]

I never said he was a murderer or that they went and got a prescription.I was just letting you know that anyone could get a prescription and not just OTC meds like you stated. I meant that IF they wanted a prescription they could have got one. I don't know why you think I said that Hackett is a murderer or that he wrote out a script for anyone!. I NEVER said that!! YOU said that IF they got anything from CVS it had to be OTC and not a prescription. I simply just posted that you were incorrect and that ANYONE could get a prescription filled at any time of the night from that CVS. That IS all I said. I NEVER said Hackett was a murderer or that he wrote out a script.

No, but you certainly implied this! Where else would the script come from? Brewer and Pak could magically manifest a prescription to fill at this pharmacy over how many miles away at 3-4am? Or do you think the original story about cutting agents was a more plausible story and you'd like to go with this one, now?

 

[MarkTwang]

Has Ret. NYPD VICE detective Paz and his crew been interrogated about the Long Island murders?

Paz said that he has been a player in operating illegal brothels since 2008.
These murders began in 2007.

Some NYPD members on VICE have been protecting his operation tipping him off to raids and UCs since he began. He was arrested and charged in Sept. 2018. His whole crew were ret. NYPD.

Here is where this gets in line with the M.O. the night Shannan went missing:

"After submitting to the screening (exposing themselves to security because UCs can not expose themselves during a sting) and the vast majority did, the customer paid, was handed a playing card as a receipt and proceeded to the next room to select a prostitute, the police said."

Pak went to CVS that night to "pick up a deck of playing cards". This was code for Pak most definitely being paid by Brewer for Shannan that night.

This was why the investigation about her disappearance was obstructed.
A "playing card" was Paz's code word for a receipt.

Shannan was found without her pants, with her pants ripped up the leg. Why would Shannan be worried about him thinking she was transgendered, would she not go ahead and show him?

He did not think she was transgendered, did he? He thought she was a UC.

Next question:
Who was the 48 year old unnamed male inside Brewer's house that night?

Next question: there is Tony the other guy who ran a underground brothel in 2014. Tony, Maureen's (LISK victim) associate from Manhattan?

"On another night, one of the women, a Columbia University student who called herself Naiad after a water nymph from Greek mythology, floated around the room in an airy silk robe over matching undergarments. It was her second night at the club. She asked men, “What’s your story?” When they asked her the same in turn, she told them she was a mermaid from the waters of Riverside Park."​

'I only grow limbs in the nighttime,' she said. 'And I enjoy what being a woman below the torso offers, because I don’t take it for granted as much.'​

Wow...I really do not have words for that.

In 2014, "Last year, there were 1,869 arrests for prostitution in New York City; of those, 326 were in Manhattan. There were 145 arrests for promoting prostitution, which includes operating a house of prostitution, but only 18 in Manhattan."

They need to interrogate Paz, this "Tony" fellow (and his associates).

Why has the New York Times not done anything if they had this kind of intel? Someone deliberately made two references to the Long Island murders in two quotes from NYT articles.

I want to believe they'd do the right thing before NYPD Internal Affairs would (since they seem to get self-righteous with police corruption and claim that they're the 'more ethical' watchdogs), but Paz was reported to IA by an NYPD cop. Not NY Times.

This sounds like the OP that killed these girls. NY Times ran both these stories and they both seem connected to the Long Island murders.

"The retired detective, Ludwig Paz, 51, was arrested and accused of running a broad and complex syndicate of prostitution and gambling that spanned Brooklyn and Queens and brought in millions of dollars. Three sergeants, two detectives and two officers were also charged. Two other officers were stripped of their guns and shields and placed on administrative duty. Dozens of civilians were arrested, and more are being sought."​

Links to the stories, below:

06/14 -- "Tony" is a POI in Maureen's disappearance. Brothel owner. Manhattan, NY

A Strip Club in Manhattan Proves That Vice Is Hard to Kill

9/18 --Ludwig Paz, the NYPD Vice Det. arrested 9/2018, brothel owner

The Prostitution Empire and the Former N.Y.P.D. Detective, Always One Step Ahead of the Law

 

[mopar1975]

No, but you certainly implied this! Where else would the script come from? Brewer and Pak could magically manifest a prescription to fill at this pharmacy over how many miles away at 3-4am? Or do you think the original story about cutting agents was a more plausible story and you'd like to go with this one, now?

Well, I'm sorry you took it that way!! I meant ANYBODY could go there for a written prescription to get filled and not just OTC like you thought.

 

[MarkTwang]

Well, I'm sorry you took it that way!! I meant ANYBODY could go there for a written prescription to get filled and not just OTC like you thought.

What are your thoughts on Shannan getting sent to Paz's OP by Ruis? Did Paz operate a driver service?

Are Paz, Al, Tony, Ruis, Vibe, Akim Crews, VIPs and Remy, Pak, Brewer and Lace on 7th connected? Better, could we find a paper trail that connects them?

Do any of the victims have entertainers permits for NY, NY for any strip clubs? Particularly at Lace on 7th?

Paz could have tipped off Ruis that she was cooperating with LE. Ruis could have asked Paz to "handle it".

In fact, another thing that leads me to think an officer could have been involved is one of the callers they believed were the killers that harassed Amanda, Melissa Barthelemy's sister. He said he was with the NYPD (Paz and his associates were ret NYPD). He asked if she had filed a missing persons report.

Context on that, calls were traced to Madison Square Garden and Times Square. He called her a "half breed", asked her if she "was a *advertiser censored* like her sister" and told her that he has Melissa. An officer would have interrogated her on what she knew about the people who Melissa worked with. Amanda was the only family member that knew about Melissa's escort job. She learned of it when she went to visit Melissa in New York. The likelihood Amanda knew the killer or the associates was pretty high. The person on the phone threatened to kill her, too. Stated he knew where she lives. An officer could find that information.

She was only 15 at the time of these phone calls. The last call he started he was watching her sisters "body rot". The only person I could think of that would interrogate victims, harass family to find out "what they know" who could use the system to find out how to contact them is an ex-officer, once they go dirty they are vicious and out of control.

There are so many reasons why an ex officer makes sense here as the killer. I don't think it was Suffolk, though. These calls came from Manhattan. I think Paz and his crew had something to do with this.

I think, in Shannan's first bust in 2007, one of the individuals arrested had a charge of "police impersonation" I can't find full details of that arrest but I do know Ruis was operating out of Hoboken. That's where his Kebab House was. She was arrested again in 2009. I can't find those records. Does anyone have them?

July 6, 2007

Shannan Gilbert, 21, of Upper Saddle River, Arlene Aguilar, 33, of Brooklyn, Elizabeth Gonzalez, 31, of Union City and Gladys Montalvo, 38, of Hoboken were arrested and charged with engaging in prostitution, said Upper Saddle River Police Chief Michael Fanning.
​

 

[MarkTwang]

I was watching a video the other day from a comedian named Lance Krall. He does prank calls and such. He does one where he pretends to be the assistant to Christopher Walken, and then he does his Christopher Walken impression (Very good too, I must say). Then today it hit me. We have been speculating why the GB4 would trust a John and leave their cells ( in some cases) and/or just get in the car with someone. Maybe he is acting like a personal assistant to a famous person, politician, ect... offers big money and demanding discretion. He says he will pick them up at set time and location, takes them to LI where celebs often live (from what I hear). I see this as a plausable ruse. Opinions?

She'd do this to meet a cop or someone in organized crime who may be wary of surveillance or having her be tracked to their meeting location.

In an informant relationship, to have a conversation off the record and unable to be surveilled by either LE (court ordered surveillance) or by her pimp (through spy ware).

It's not unusual for pimps to use spyware to monitor their girls. The tech aspect is embedded throughout these crimes, keep that in mind.

If the cop weren't really a cop, but she thought the cop was legit...she'd drop her guard and leave without personal items including her cell. The way this works is just come out of the house, meet somewhere, get in the car, drive to a secure location and spill whatever they need to inform about and take the pay off. She could have been cooperaing with LE and if Paz, once again, intercepted the intel...she'd be a goner.

You dont understand how easy murdering people would be for Paz. The hardest part of his reign of terror wasn't murder, it was concealment of his illegal operation. Anyone who threatened it would be a gonner, especially in the early years.

 

[MarkTwang]

If the calls to MB's sister lasted approximately 8 months

They lasted one month, not 8.