The Importance of the Pineapple

[Anti-K]

The pineapple in JonBenet's stomach and that in the bowl were forensically compared and matched right down to the rind, i.e. it was fresh pineapple purchased by Patsy at the supermarket.

Pineapple digests very quickly, faster than most foods, since it is mainly composed of water, so the timeframe for eating it is constrained, i.e. it is not hours. Basically she ate the pineapple and shortly afterwards she was killed!

The connection of the pineapple to JonBenet is that its presence in her stomach contradicts the parent's version of events, but not BR's since he said she walked into the house.

There is no contradiction because the child could have woken up and eaten the pineapple after everyone else had gone to sleep.

Burke’s version, as told by Thomas, was contradictory which led Thomas to believe that Burke was simply confused. Even Kolar believes that jbr was put to bed by the Ramseys upon returning home from the White’s that night (he thinks that jbr woke up after being put to bed).
…

AK

 

[Ellie9]

There is no contradiction because the child could have woken up and eaten the pineapple after everyone else had gone to sleep.

Burke’s version, as told by Thomas, was contradictory which led Thomas to believe that Burke was simply confused. Even Kolar believes that jbr was put to bed by the Ramseys upon returning home from the White’s that night (he thinks that jbr woke up after being put to bed).
…

AK

I agree this is certainly a possibility no matter who did this crime. It does make sense. As a kid her age I often helped myself to snacks. A big house means less chance of waking up the parents when going downstairs. Also on Christmas she has even more reason to sneak downstairs. New toys!


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[UKGuy]

I agree this is certainly a possibility no matter who did this crime. It does make sense. As a kid her age I often helped myself to snacks. A big house means less chance of waking up the parents when going downstairs. Also on Christmas she has even more reason to sneak downstairs. New toys!


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Ellie9,
mmm, well this must mean JonBenet had two pineapple snacks. i.e. one before she went to sleep and one after, since Patsy or Burke was needed to fetch the bowl of pineapple from the fridge, as JonBenet was too small to reach the pineapple placed high in the fridge.

So there is now a double contradiction, i.e. JonBenet was awake but the parents say she was asleep, and BR says he saw her walk through the door.

This is empirical evidence its not a thought experiment or some opinion as are all IDI explanations, since there is not one scrap of forensic evidence to back up a Foreign Faction intrusion, as per the RN.

The evidence is in your face, on arrival back from the White's JonBenet walked into the house was prepared a snack by Patsy or Burke and shortly afterwards was sexually assaulted and asphyxiated!

.

 

[andreww]

I think that last statement is pretty accurate UKGuy. That pineapple snack is in my opinion the thread that unraveled the Ramsey's web of lies. It wasn't eaten before the party, and it wasn't eaten at the party, so it must have been eaten on her arrival home, proving the Ramsey's story that she went to bed "zonked" to be a lie.


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[Ellie9]

Ellie9,
mmm, well this must mean JonBenet had two pineapple snacks. i.e. one before she went to sleep and one after, since Patsy or Burke was needed to fetch the bowl of pineapple from the fridge, as JonBenet was too small to reach the pineapple placed high in the fridge.

So there is now a double contradiction, i.e. JonBenet was awake but the parents say she was asleep, and BR says he saw her walk through the door.

This is empirical evidence its not a thought experiment or some opinion as are all IDI explanations, since there is not one scrap of forensic evidence to back up a Foreign Faction intrusion, as per the RN.

The evidence is in your face, on arrival back from the White's JonBenet walked into the house was prepared a snack by Patsy or Burke and shortly afterwards was sexually assaulted and asphyxiated!

.

Oh I never realized it was on a high shelf. I guess this does probably place one of the three with her. Thanks for letting me know!

I lean toward RDI but I like to keep an open mind.


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[andreww]

Not sure if it was a high shelf or not, I thought Patsy said JB simply couldn't open the door?


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[Anti-K]

Ellie9,
mmm, well this must mean JonBenet had two pineapple snacks. i.e. one before she went to sleep and one after, since Patsy or Burke was needed to fetch the bowl of pineapple from the fridge, as JonBenet was too small to reach the pineapple placed high in the fridge.

So there is now a double contradiction, i.e. JonBenet was awake but the parents say she was asleep, and BR says he saw her walk through the door.

This is empirical evidence its not a thought experiment or some opinion as are all IDI explanations, since there is not one scrap of forensic evidence to back up a Foreign Faction intrusion, as per the RN.

The evidence is in your face, on arrival back from the White's JonBenet walked into the house was prepared a snack by Patsy or Burke and shortly afterwards was sexually assaulted and asphyxiated!

.

BBM
The story about Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs originated with Thomas. From his book:
[Burke] said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, Jonbenet walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid [Burke] was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night.”” P. 317

This was not Burke’s first interview. Thomas makes reference to an earlier interview in the preceding paragraph. In this interview, Burke says that jbr walked up the stairs to bed.

Thomas writes that “[t]hat was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed.” Who told the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed? Burke did, in an earlier interview and that is why when, now, in this interview when he says that she walked up the stairs, Thomas concludes that “this poor kid was confused.”

Only RDI posters make a big deal out of Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs. Thomas shrugs it off, the kid was confused. No one associated with the investigation seems to take this story seriously; probably, because Thomas, et. al realize that Burke was confused. They believe he was confused because he told conflicting stories.

If Thomas thinks Burke was confused when he said that jbr walked up the stairs then he must think that jbr was carried up the stairs (where, according to Kolar, Patsy woke her).

Regardless, in every version told, there is no pineapple, there are no snacks, and jbr goes straight to bed.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Oh I never realized it was on a high shelf. I guess this does probably place one of the three with her. Thanks for letting me know!

I lean toward RDI but I like to keep an open mind.


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Placing the pineapple bowl in the fridge or on a shelf or somewhere impossible or difficult for jbr to reach on her own is an imaginary restriction created by RDI. No one knows where the pineapple was when jbr ate out of the bowl, or if she even ate it out of the bowl.

No one remembers anything about it, so for all we know it could have been sitting right there, forgotten, on the table when the Ramseys came back from the White’s and where it was later seen by investigators. Or, it could have been sitting somewhere else when jbr ate from it (if she ate from it) and then moved when people were all milling about and moving things around, cleaning wiping and such that morning, between the time the cops arrived and the body was found.
We just don’t know. But, these imaginary restrictions? Forget about ém.
…

AK

 

[Cranberry]

BBM
The story about Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs originated with Thomas. From his book:
[Burke] said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, Jonbenet walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid [Burke] was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night.”” P. 317

This was not Burke’s first interview. Thomas makes reference to an earlier interview in the preceding paragraph. In this interview, Burke says that jbr walked up the stairs to bed.

Thomas writes that “[t]hat was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed.” Who told the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed? Burke did, in an earlier interview and that is why when, now, in this interview when he says that she walked up the stairs, Thomas concludes that “this poor kid was confused.”

Only RDI posters make a big deal out of Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs. Thomas shrugs it off, the kid was confused. No one associated with the investigation seems to take this story seriously; probably, because Thomas, et. al realize that Burke was confused. They believe he was confused because he told conflicting stories.

If Thomas thinks Burke was confused when he said that jbr walked up the stairs then he must think that jbr was carried up the stairs (where, according to Kolar, Patsy woke her).

Regardless, in every version told, there is no pineapple, there are no snacks, and jbr goes straight to bed.
...

AK

Or perhaps ST was referring to JR & PR's repeated account of events which confused BR? Here is the paragraph:

"Burke Ramsey seemed to have recovered his memory, but to me he answers seemed awkward and he was clearly uncomfortable. When asked how he thought JonBenet had been killed, he replied, "I have no idea." In his first interview he had been explicit in describing what happened to her. He confirmed that her bed-wetting had been a big problem. With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25.When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder.

He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night.

He heard the house creaking during the night, he said, and when he awoke, his mother was turning on the lights and in a rush, saying, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," then his father turned the lights on and off again. Burke stayed in bed wondering if something had happened. He heard his father trying to calm his mother, then telling her to call the police. Burke told the detective he did not get out of bed that morning and that a policeman looked into his room. He recalled thinking that when the police arrived "we would probably be tied up all day" and that he was disappointed the family would not be going to Charlevoix as planned."

 

[BBB167893]

There is no contradiction because the child could have woken up and eaten the pineapple after everyone else had gone to sleep.

Burke’s version, as told by Thomas, was contradictory which led Thomas to believe that Burke was simply confused. Even Kolar believes that jbr was put to bed by the Ramseys upon returning home from the White’s that night (he thinks that jbr woke up after being put to bed).
…

AK

But how could she get it? She couldn't reach where it was found. Someone taller had to get it for her.

 

[Fides]

Placing the pineapple bowl in the fridge or on a shelf or somewhere impossible or difficult for jbr to reach on her own is an imaginary restriction created by RDI. No one knows where the pineapple was when jbr ate out of the bowl, or if she even ate it out of the bowl.

No one remembers anything about it, so for all we know it could have been sitting right there, forgotten, on the table when the Ramseys came back from the White’s and where it was later seen by investigators. Or, it could have been sitting somewhere else when jbr ate from it (if she ate from it) and then moved when people were all milling about and moving things around, cleaning wiping and such that morning, between the time the cops arrived and the body was found.
We just don’t know. But, these imaginary restrictions? Forget about ém.
…

AK

Hello AK -
The restrictions are not imaginary, nor are they created by people who think RDI. They are based on information provided by the Ramseys in interviews with law enforcement. The following are snippets from Patsy - John provided similar answers when he was questioned. The shelf was high (per Patsy), the refrigerator door was difficult (per John), JonBenet did not wander the house at night, she would not eat pineapple on her own, etc.

I agree that the easiest explanation for the pineapple in the small intestine is that she ate it by herself, but the Ramseys insist she did not/could not. After consulting with his lawyer and having a night to think it over, John did suggest that the pineapple snack may been prepared by Santa Bill, because JonBenet would not have eaten it quietly with a stranger.

I have always wondered why the Ramseys insisted that JonBenet would not have fed herself in the night. To do so does not fit with IDI or RDI. The only thought I have is if BDI is true then perhaps they were trying to avoid charges of obstructing justice by taking an "I have no idea what any of this means - it is all beyond me - but I will only offer information that can be confirmed by friends and family to be true - I will try to do nothing to actively mislead LE."



TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
___
TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
___
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple.


1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet's system.
____
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?
0480
1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it
1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.

 

[Anti-K]

Or perhaps ST was referring to JR & PR's repeated account of events which confused BR? Here is the paragraph:

"Burke Ramsey seemed to have recovered his memory, but to me he answers seemed awkward and he was clearly uncomfortable. When asked how he thought JonBenet had been killed, he replied, "I have no idea." In his first interview he had been explicit in describing what happened to her. He confirmed that her bed-wetting had been a big problem. With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25.When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder.

He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night.

He heard the house creaking during the night, he said, and when he awoke, his mother was turning on the lights and in a rush, saying, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," then his father turned the lights on and off again. Burke stayed in bed wondering if something had happened. He heard his father trying to calm his mother, then telling her to call the police. Burke told the detective he did not get out of bed that morning and that a policeman looked into his room. He recalled thinking that when the police arrived "we would probably be tied up all day" and that he was disappointed the family would not be going to Charlevoix as planned."

Thomas is describing an interview with Burke. During this description, Thomas refers to Burke’s first interview. In the interview that Thomas is describing, Burke says that jbr walked up the stairs to bed and Thomas thinks that Burke said this because he was confused. Why would Thomas think he was confused? Because, in the first interview Burke said that jbr was carried to bed.

There is no mention of, or reference to either parent in this passage. It is all about what Burke.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Hello AK -
The restrictions are not imaginary, nor are they created by people who think RDI. They are based on information provided by the Ramseys in interviews with law enforcement. The following are snippets from Patsy - John provided similar answers when he was questioned. The shelf was high (per Patsy), the refrigerator door was difficult (per John), JonBenet did not wander the house at night, she would not eat pineapple on her own, etc.

I agree that the easiest explanation for the pineapple in the small intestine is that she ate it by herself, but the Ramseys insist she did not/could not. After consulting with his lawyer and having a night to think it over, John did suggest that the pineapple snack may been prepared by Santa Bill, because JonBenet would not have eaten it quietly with a stranger.

I have always wondered why the Ramseys insisted that JonBenet would not have fed herself in the night. To do so does not fit with IDI or RDI. The only thought I have is if BDI is true then perhaps they were trying to avoid charges of obstructing justice by taking an "I have no idea what any of this means - it is all beyond me - but I will only offer information that can be confirmed by friends and family to be true - I will try to do nothing to actively mislead LE."



TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
___
TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
___
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple.


1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet's system.
____
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?
0480
1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it
1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.

The point here is that no one remembers anything about the bowl. We only know where it was the following day. People can say it was in the fridge. But, we don’t know that it was in the fridge. They can say, it was on a shelf too high to reach, but we don’t know that it was on that shelf. We only know that we don’t know.

Was it on that table all the while, since before leaving for the White’s? Is it possible? Why not? Cause Mrs Ramsey said the table was cleaned off? But, was it? And, did it stay that way? Or, maybe the bowl was somewhere else when jbr ate out of it – or maybe she didn’t eat out of it!!! – and then the bowl was moved once or twice during the morning until it ended up on the table.

And, just because Ma and Pa say Jr would never do that, it don’t mean that Jr would never do that. IMO, the Ramseys are genuinely puzzled by the pineapple.
…

AK

 

[Fides]

The point here is that no one remembers anything about the bowl. We only know where it was the following day. People can say it was in the fridge. But, we don’t know that it was in the fridge. They can say, it was on a shelf too high to reach, but we don’t know that it was on that shelf. We only know that we don’t know.

Was it on that table all the while, since before leaving for the White’s? Is it possible? Why not? Cause Mrs Ramsey said the table was cleaned off? But, was it? And, did it stay that way? Or, maybe the bowl was somewhere else when jbr ate out of it – or maybe she didn’t eat out of it!!! – and then the bowl was moved once or twice during the morning until it ended up on the table.

And, just because Ma and Pa say Jr would never do that, it don’t mean that Jr would never do that. IMO, the Ramseys are genuinely puzzled by the pineapple.
…

AK

AK, your original point was that "restrictions" to the notion that JonBenet ate pineapple on her own were imaginary and created by RDIs. My rebuttal is simply that such restrictions were neither imaginary nor from RDIs. They are based on the words of the parents; the people who lived in the house with the pineapple and the bowls and the spoons and the cupboards. The people who knew her best.

I asked myself, why would an IDI choose this thing to decide the Ramseys probably didn't know what they were talking about when it came to their children, their dishes, etc? I think it is because their words make no sense.

If the Ramseys truly believed 1) an intruder entered their home and killed their daughter and 2) they did not serve her pineapple that night and 3) she would raise hell if a stranger tried to feed it to her, then the only logical conclusions they can arrive at are A) JonBenet ate it on her own or B) Burke gave it to her or C) another person known to her fed it to her.

The Ramseys deny that A or B can be true, although A fits very well with the intruder theory. They never suggest C until John Ramsey suggests Santa Bill, and he is careful to say that his lawyer gave him the idea. Patsy never mentions a C alternative. She does wonder if the Whites served pineapple, although the reserved crabmeat is the only specific food recalled by either parent.

Without knowing for sure whether or not JonBenet wandered out of bed while they were asleep and grabbed a few chunks of fresh pineapple, they essentially rule out the most logical conclusion, that she would/could/did. The interesting question is, why? Why would they both rule out the one path that fits with THEIR theory of the crime?


I think this question is at the crux of the matter, and the answer is the answer to the puzzle.

 

[Backwoods]

But how could she get it? She couldn't reach where it was found. Someone taller had to get it for her.

She could have pulled a chair or stool over and stood on it easily enough, it seems to me.

 

[UKGuy]

The point here is that no one remembers anything about the bowl. We only know where it was the following day. People can say it was in the fridge. But, we don’t know that it was in the fridge. They can say, it was on a shelf too high to reach, but we don’t know that it was on that shelf. We only know that we don’t know.

Was it on that table all the while, since before leaving for the White’s? Is it possible? Why not? Cause Mrs Ramsey said the table was cleaned off? But, was it? And, did it stay that way? Or, maybe the bowl was somewhere else when jbr ate out of it – or maybe she didn’t eat out of it!!! – and then the bowl was moved once or twice during the morning until it ended up on the table.

And, just because Ma and Pa say Jr would never do that, it don’t mean that Jr would never do that. IMO, the Ramseys are genuinely puzzled by the pineapple.
…

AK

Anti-K,
Has it ever occured to you that if you do not know what you do not know or what happened during the day in the Ramsey kitchen is beyond your ken as is what took place after JonBenet arrived back from the White's, then you are in no position to offer statements regarding the collective WE, when you really mean I, so please exclude me from your statements of ignorance, since I know what I know and its patently more than you!

.

 

[UKGuy]

Hello AK -
The restrictions are not imaginary, nor are they created by people who think RDI. They are based on information provided by the Ramseys in interviews with law enforcement. The following are snippets from Patsy - John provided similar answers when he was questioned. The shelf was high (per Patsy), the refrigerator door was difficult (per John), JonBenet did not wander the house at night, she would not eat pineapple on her own, etc.

I agree that the easiest explanation for the pineapple in the small intestine is that she ate it by herself, but the Ramseys insist she did not/could not. After consulting with his lawyer and having a night to think it over, John did suggest that the pineapple snack may been prepared by Santa Bill, because JonBenet would not have eaten it quietly with a stranger.

I have always wondered why the Ramseys insisted that JonBenet would not have fed herself in the night. To do so does not fit with IDI or RDI. The only thought I have is if BDI is true then perhaps they were trying to avoid charges of obstructing justice by taking an "I have no idea what any of this means - it is all beyond me - but I will only offer information that can be confirmed by friends and family to be true - I will try to do nothing to actively mislead LE."



TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
___
TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
___
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple.


1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet's system.
____
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?
0480
1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it
1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.

Fides,

TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.

21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple.


1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.

1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

Patsy confirms JonBenet was not tall enough to reach the pineapple. Patsy at Line 19 states someone else other than her or JR must have fetched the pineapple for JonBenet.

Tom Haney never mentions that BR's fingerprint is on the serving bowl, nor does he suggest BR fetched the pineapple for JonBenet.

Like the barbie doll in the wine-cellar this topic is passed over, I wonder why?

 

[andreww]

BBM
The story about Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs originated with Thomas. From his book:
[Burke] said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, Jonbenet walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid [Burke] was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night.”” P. 317

This was not Burke’s first interview. Thomas makes reference to an earlier interview in the preceding paragraph. In this interview, Burke says that jbr walked up the stairs to bed.

Thomas writes that “[t]hat was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed.” Who told the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed? Burke did, in an earlier interview and that is why when, now, in this interview when he says that she walked up the stairs, Thomas concludes that “this poor kid was confused.”

Only RDI posters make a big deal out of Burke saying that jbr walked up the stairs. Thomas shrugs it off, the kid was confused. No one associated with the investigation seems to take this story seriously; probably, because Thomas, et. al realize that Burke was confused. They believe he was confused because he told conflicting stories.

If Thomas thinks Burke was confused when he said that jbr walked up the stairs then he must think that jbr was carried up the stairs (where, according to Kolar, Patsy woke her).

Regardless, in every version told, there is no pineapple, there are no snacks, and jbr goes straight to bed.
...

AK

Thomas was on a different theory. Whether JBR walked or was carried up made little difference to him. His only concern was that JBR went straight from the front door to her bed. The problem here is that when you have discrepancies, there also exists the possibility that the whole story is a lie. Maybe JBR didn't go straight to bed, but the family agreed that the story would be that she went from the car to her bed. When one person says she walked and two say she was carried, it makes you wonder what actually happened.

I guess if the Ramseys hadn't waited three months the stories may have matched, but they only have themselves to blame for that one.

 

[Anti-K]

Fides,







Patsy confirms JonBenet was not tall enough to reach the pineapple. Patsy at Line 19 states someone else other than her or JR must have fetched the pineapple for JonBenet.

Tom Haney never mentions that BR's fingerprint is on the serving bowl, nor does he suggest BR fetched the pineapple for JonBenet.

Like the barbie doll in the wine-cellar this topic is passed over, I wonder why?

Mrs Ramsey confirms that jbr could not reach the bowl if it were in the cupboard.

12 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize the bowl?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Where do you keep them?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: In the kitchen.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Where in the kitchen?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, in like a cupboard over
18 to -- there is kind of big sinks over here. There is
19 an island in the middle and big sinks and above that,
20 the cupboard with dishwear in it.
<snip>
3 TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

BUT, the bowl was on the table, where jbr could have easily reached it.
&#8230;

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Thomas was on a different theory. Whether JBR walked or was carried up made little difference to him. His only concern was that JBR went straight from the front door to her bed. The problem here is that when you have discrepancies, there also exists the possibility that the whole story is a lie. Maybe JBR didn't go straight to bed, but the family agreed that the story would be that she went from the car to her bed. When one person says she walked and two say she was carried, it makes you wonder what actually happened.

I guess if the Ramseys hadn't waited three months the stories may have matched, but they only have themselves to blame for that one.

Ah, but was it a discrepancy or, as Thomas believes, was Burke simply confused? Because, no one associated with the investigation seems to believe anything other than that jbr was put to bed as the Ramseys describe.
&#8230;

AK