The Importance of the Pineapple

[UKGuy]

Mrs Ramsey confirms that jbr could not reach the bowl if it were in the cupboard.

12 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize the bowl?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Where do you keep them?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: In the kitchen.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Where in the kitchen?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, in like a cupboard over
18 to -- there is kind of big sinks over here. There is
19 an island in the middle and big sinks and above that,
20 the cupboard with dishwear in it.
<snip>
3 TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

BUT, the bowl was on the table, where jbr could have easily reached it.
…

AK

Anti-K,
JonBenet's fingerprints are not on the bowl, so she never touched it. Patsy says she cleared the kitchen tables that morning and that she never served the pineapple on returning from the White's, we know JonBenet never served herself since she was not tall enough to reach it.


So I guess that leaves Burke Ramsey?

.

 

[andreww]

Ah, but was it a discrepancy or, as Thomas believes, was Burke simply confused? Because, no one associated with the investigation seems to believe anything other than that jbr was put to bed as the Ramseys describe.
…

AK

Unfortunately they didn't have any cooperative witnesses did they? If JBR hung out downstairs with Burke for an hour while John and Patsy went upstairs and got it on, how would Thomas, Kolar or anybody else be able to figure that out? We know the Ramsey's lied, what makes anyone so certain they are being truthful about this? Bottom line is they had to come up with something, so they started with what the Ramsey's told them, then worked their theories in to that.

Bottom line is the Ramsey's are liars. One of them killed Jonbenet and the others have been covering it up ever since.


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[andreww]

No one else’s fingerprints are all over that bowl. One print from mom and one from son, that’s it. Did jbr even eat out of that bowl? Maybe she had a small bite out of the original container, or off of some other dish or bowl?
…

AK

Don't take us for idiots. What other container or bowl are you talking about? Someone put that bowl there. John didn't. Patsy didn't. Jonbenet didn't. How did it get there?


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[Ellie9]

Had any expert or user on a forum at least compared the state of the pineapple photographed, to the amount of time it would have taken to reach this state?

The pineapple looks discoloured.. Maybe it's never gonna be an exact estimate, but could we ever get a time window for when it was laid out? Did we already?

Also I found it interesting that PR said that she had no idea who put that tea bag in the glass. She makes it sound like it's a tea bag storage unit instead of the idea that someone drank tea from it. Odd, since it's not usually one's first guess!

Makes me wonder if she slipped up here. It wasn't ever a glass of tea and she knew it. Reminds me of the old trick where someone in LE asks a vague question and gets a way too specific answer in the negative.

Have you seen this woman?

No, officer, I would never stab anyone!


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[Ringfinger]

Had any expert or user on a forum at least compared the state of the pineapple photographed, to the amount of time it would have taken to reach this state?

The pineapple looks discoloured.. Maybe it's never gonna be an exact estimate, but could we ever get a time window for when it was laid out? Did we already?

Also I found it interesting that PR said that she had no idea who put that tea bag in the glass. She makes it sound like it's a tea bag storage unit instead of the idea that someone drank tea from it. Odd, since it's not usually one's first guess!

Makes me wonder if she slipped up here. It wasn't ever a glass of tea and she knew it. Reminds me of the old trick where someone in LE asks a vague question and gets a way too specific answer in the negative.

Have you seen this woman?

No, officer, I would never stab anyone!


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That's an interesting thought. Some home tests on fresh pineapple may tell us a lot about the timeline. I really had not thought about that. Your thoughts on the tea-bag were also very interesting. I didn't notice that myself.

 

[Anti-K]

Don't take us for idiots. What other container or bowl are you talking about? Someone put that bowl there. John didn't. Patsy didn't. Jonbenet didn't. How did it get there?


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The pineapple didn&#8217;t grow in the bowl. It started out in a different container, and then someone emptied that container into the bowl. Jonbenet could have eaten from the original container.

It isn&#8217;t just who, but when. IMO, the bowl was already out and with pineapple in it before the Ramseys left for the White&#8217;s. Forgotten. One, or more, of the Ramseys set up that bowl and forgot about it. I&#8217;ve seen pictures of that place, it could have been left out, maybe moved about, for a day or two. Forgotten.
&#8230;

AK

 

[Anti-K]

That's an interesting thought. Some home tests on fresh pineapple may tell us a lot about the timeline. I really had not thought about that. Your thoughts on the tea-bag were also very interesting. I didn't notice that myself.

I did the home tests on pineapple and posted them and pictures here on this forum. Within the last few months, I think. I think I did one with cream and one with milk. It&#8217;s all a little vague to me, right now.
&#8230;

AK

 

[Ellie9]

The pineapple didn’t grow in the bowl. It started out in a different container, and then someone emptied that container into the bowl. Jonbenet could have eaten from the original container.

It isn’t just who, but when. IMO, the bowl was already out and with pineapple in it before the Ramseys left for the White’s. Forgotten. One, or more, of the Ramseys set up that bowl and forgot about it. I’ve seen pictures of that place, it could have been left out, maybe moved about, for a day or two. Forgotten.
…

AK

This sounds too convoluted to me though. So the Ramsey's forgot this bowl completely. PR later said she cleaned up, but she was wrong. JBR later wakes up on her own and goes downstairs and ignored the bowl on the table fully and goes and gets even more pineapple from a container. But PR and JR both said she couldn't get gotten into the fridge. So we have to now assume they are both wrong again. Then JBR goes back upstairs and the intruder strikes? This is so many events. It's like at some point we have to just apply Occam's Razor!

It just seems like, honestly, if you think the Ramsey's are innocent, it would be really weird to cherry pick from their own words what really happened. If you guys think they don't know anything about JBR's abilities in the kitchen, how do you think they know much of anything else? How do you decide when the Ramsey's are right and when they've made an innocent mistake?

 

[Anti-K]

This sounds too convoluted to me though. So the Ramsey's forgot this bowl completely. PR later said she cleaned up, but she was wrong. JBR later wakes up on her own and goes downstairs and ignored the bowl on the table fully and goes and gets even more pineapple from a container. But PR and JR both said she couldn't get gotten into the fridge. So we have to now assume they are both wrong again. Then JBR goes back upstairs and the intruder strikes? This is so many events. It's like at some point we have to just apply Occam's Razor!

It just seems like, honestly, if you think the Ramsey's are innocent, it would be really weird to cherry pick from their own words what really happened. If you guys think they don't know anything about JBR's abilities in the kitchen, how do you think they know much of anything else? How do you decide when the Ramsey's are right and when they've made an innocent mistake?

Let&#8217;s say we take a photograph of your table, and then ask you, four months later, to explain everything that you see in the photograph. Would you be able to do it? If you can&#8217;t, should we believe that you are lying, or that you simply don&#8217;t remember, or remember inaccurately?

I think occam&#8217;s razor is going to suggest that you simply don&#8217;t remember, or remember inaccurately.

Here are a few, possible and &#8220;innocent&#8221; explanations for the pineapple:
1) jonbenet eats the pineapple before leaving for the White&#8217;s, a quick bite on her way out the door &#8211; at least one Boulder expert said that this was possible
2) jonbenet takes a small piece with her when they leave for the White&#8217;s, like candy, tucked into a box, a bag, a baggie, a container, a pocket, whatever was handy. She eats it at the Whites or in the car before falling asleep on the way home
3) jonbenet having fallen asleep earlier than usual and having ate little at the White&#8217;s, wakes up at home, in bed and hungry and &#8220;finds&#8221; that stashed or left over piece somewhere in her room. yum, yum.
4) jonbenet, having fallen asleep earlier than usual and having ate little at the White&#8217;s, wakes up at home, in bed and hungry and maybe still thinking about Christmas, wanders downstairs and sees the pineapple in the bowl, left there from earlier in the day, and she has a piece, but still tired wanders off back to bed

In most cases with most people we could say that the pineapple would have went from here to there in an hour and a half (the shortest time given by a BPD expert; I generally go with 30 minutes), and in rarer cases with certain people it could have been ingested as early as 4:30 (the longest time given by a BPD expert). But, other experts say that there are too many variables to make a certain determination - onset of illness, excitement/stress, exhaustion/sleep, other items ingested, factors peculiar to the individual, etc. So, even with transition times, we&#8217;re just guessing.

It&#8217;s a mystery, for sure; but what hasn&#8217;t been established is that this mystery has anything to do with the murder.
&#8230;

AK

 

[UKGuy]

Let’s say we take a photograph of your table, and then ask you, four months later, to explain everything that you see in the photograph. Would you be able to do it? If you can’t, should we believe that you are lying, or that you simply don’t remember, or remember inaccurately?

I think occam’s razor is going to suggest that you simply don’t remember, or remember inaccurately.

Here are a few, possible and “innocent” explanations for the pineapple:
1) jonbenet eats the pineapple before leaving for the White’s, a quick bite on her way out the door – at least one Boulder expert said that this was possible
2) jonbenet takes a small piece with her when they leave for the White’s, like candy, tucked into a box, a bag, a baggie, a container, a pocket, whatever was handy. She eats it at the Whites or in the car before falling asleep on the way home
3) jonbenet having fallen asleep earlier than usual and having ate little at the White’s, wakes up at home, in bed and hungry and “finds” that stashed or left over piece somewhere in her room. yum, yum.
4) jonbenet, having fallen asleep earlier than usual and having ate little at the White’s, wakes up at home, in bed and hungry and maybe still thinking about Christmas, wanders downstairs and sees the pineapple in the bowl, left there from earlier in the day, and she has a piece, but still tired wanders off back to bed

In most cases with most people we could say that the pineapple would have went from here to there in an hour and a half (the shortest time given by a BPD expert; I generally go with 30 minutes), and in rarer cases with certain people it could have been ingested as early as 4:30 (the longest time given by a BPD expert). But, other experts say that there are too many variables to make a certain determination - onset of illness, excitement/stress, exhaustion/sleep, other items ingested, factors peculiar to the individual, etc. So, even with transition times, we’re just guessing.

It’s a mystery, for sure; but what hasn’t been established is that this mystery has anything to do with the murder.
…

AK

Anti-K,
How many times do you need to be told?

It’s a mystery, for sure; but what hasn’t been established is that this mystery has anything to do with the murder.

What the pineapple snack has to do with JonBenet's homicide is that its presence in her digestive system contradicts the Ramsey version of events, Burke Ramsey indirectly confirms this when he stated JonBenet walked into the house on returning from the White's!

So, as per Occam, we can dispense with your innocent explanations, and assume that JonBenet snacked pineapple shortly after arriving home from the White's.

.

 

[Ellie9]

Anti-K,
How many times do you need to be told?



What the pineapple snack has to do with JonBenet's homicide is that its presence in her digestive system contradicts the Ramsey version of events, Burke Ramsey indirectly confirms this when he stated JonBenet walked into the house on returning from the White's!

So, as per Occam, we can dispense with your innocent explanations, and assume that JonBenet snacked pineapple shortly after arriving home from the White's.

.

And with these lies concerning walking to bed, being put in bed, eating pineapple, not eating anything, it seems like if RDI indeed then something major happened here. A fight? A secret coming out? I don't know. But pretending stuff never happened ever is easier than retelling events in a whole new way.


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[Ringfinger]

And with these lies concerning walking to bed, being put in bed, eating pineapple, not eating anything, it seems like if RDI indeed then something major happened here. A fight? A secret coming out? I don't know. But pretending stuff never happened ever is easier than retelling events in a whole new way.


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I think that they simply couldn't change the story and had never anticipated it being a factor. It would look more incriminating to change stories.

 

[UKGuy]

And with these lies concerning walking to bed, being put in bed, eating pineapple, not eating anything, it seems like if RDI indeed then something major happened here. A fight? A secret coming out? I don't know. But pretending stuff never happened ever is easier than retelling events in a whole new way.


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Ellie9,
The Ramsey version of events has JonBenet being carried to her bed where she is undressed.

Sure something major happened, someone sexually assaulted JonBenet, when she complained her assailant went postal, manually choking and possibly whacking her on the head to fake an accident?

The rest looks like staging?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I think that they simply couldn't change the story and had never anticipated it being a factor. It would look more incriminating to change stories.

Ringfinger,
Did the parents even know JonBenet snacked pineapple? Since if they knew why not factor it into their version of events?

Seems like JonBenet's assailant either moved her body from the breakfast bar, as per Kolar, or it kicked off in her bedroom, so the breakfast bar did not seem important?

 

[Anti-K]

Anti-K,
How many times do you need to be told?



What the pineapple snack has to do with JonBenet's homicide is that its presence in her digestive system contradicts the Ramsey version of events, Burke Ramsey indirectly confirms this when he stated JonBenet walked into the house on returning from the White's!

So, as per Occam, we can dispense with your innocent explanations, and assume that JonBenet snacked pineapple shortly after arriving home from the White's.

.

The person reporting Burke’s claim also said that Burke was confused. All we have here is, at most, a discrepancy, not a lie. And, in all versions told, jbr goes straight to bed.

The pineapple could have been eaten after everyone else had fallen asleep - one of the several scenarios I offered in a post above, could apply. Or, maybe everything happened exactly as described except unbeknownst and unadmitted, Burke set up the set-up at the last minute before going to bed (or, before leaving for the Whites) and later on, after everyone was asleep, jbr woke up and everything else is history.

if she woke up at midnight, she could have been back in bed by 12:15. The parents would know nothing about it. There would be no lie and the pineapple would prove nothing other than she ate it.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

And with these lies concerning walking to bed, being put in bed, eating pineapple, not eating anything, it seems like if RDI indeed then something major happened here. A fight? A secret coming out? I don't know. But pretending stuff never happened ever is easier than retelling events in a whole new way.


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quote: these lies concerning walking to bed, being put in bed
There are no lies here. there is, at most, a discrepancy that Thomas explained away as being confusion. Thomas and Kolar both agree that JBR was put to bed that night, as the Ramseys described. IOWs, these RDI Experts don&#8217;t see any lies here.
&#8230;

AK

 

[UKGuy]

The person reporting Burke’s claim also said that Burke was confused. All we have here is, at most, a discrepancy, not a lie. And, in all versions told, jbr goes straight to bed.

The pineapple could have been eaten after everyone else had fallen asleep - one of the several scenarios I offered in a post above, could apply. Or, maybe everything happened exactly as described except unbeknownst and unadmitted, Burke set up the set-up at the last minute before going to bed (or, before leaving for the Whites) and later on, after everyone was asleep, jbr woke up and everything else is history.

if she woke up at midnight, she could have been back in bed by 12:15. The parents would know nothing about it. There would be no lie and the pineapple would prove nothing other than she ate it.
…

AK

Anti-K,

The person reporting Burke’s claim also said that Burke was confused.

Thats a third party quote, Burke Ramsey stated that JonBenet walked into the house, only Ramsey apologists wish it were otherwise.

The pineapple could have been eaten after everyone else had fallen asleep

JonBenet never awoke and decided to snack pineapple, read my lips, she could not reach it to serve herself, and the kitchen tables were all cleared by Patsy, as per her interview, so there was no pineapple already awaiting in a bowl. Patsy said she served no pineapple so who does that leave?

In an IDI scenario the pineapple snack is contradictory.

.

 

[Ellie9]

Anti-K,

Thats a third party quote, Burke Ramsey stated that JonBenet walked into the house, only Ramsey apologists wish it were otherwise.


JonBenet never awoke and decided to snack pineapple, read my lips, she could not reach it to serve herself, and the kitchen tables were all cleared by Patsy, as per her interview, so there was no pineapple already awaiting in a bowl. Patsy said she served no pineapple so who does that leave?

In an IDI scenario the pineapple snack is contradictory.

.

If Patsy did serve it and she lied, it's still weird just how much is in there. A mom would know that's just way too much at once for a six year old. This seems more like a Burke thing.

I'm not sure if Burke did anything that night that harmed her, but it really looks more like the work of a child than a parent who would at least know better than to fill the bowl that much. And use a giant spoon too.


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[OliviaG1996]

If Patsy did serve it and she lied, it's still weird just how much is in there. A mom would know that's just way too much at once for a six year old. This seems more like a Burke thing.

I'm not sure if Burke did anything that night that harmed her, but it really looks more like the work of a child than a parent who would at least know better than to fill the bowl that much. And use a giant spoon too.


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My guess is that PR bought the pineapple already cut from Safeway and upon bringing it home, sometime before the 26th, emptied the pineapple that came packaged in a plastic container from Safeway into that white bowl and placed it in the refrigerator (most likely sealed with plastic wrap). Maybe she did this because she planned to serve the pineapple at the party on the 23rd but forgot? In my opinion, the bowl of pineapple that was found next to the glass was not out for the guests at the party to eat because if it was, I would expect many more fingerprints on it than just BR's and PR's. I think BR took the bowl out of the fridge and gave it to JBR as was, after placing the big spoon in the bowl.

 

[TeaTime]

All the pineapple tells me is that JBR ate pineapple after eating crab at the party and it likely came from the bowl which was left out in the kitchen and which had her mother's prints on it, meaning that JBR was awake at some point after getting home.