If the location of the incinerator is not in question, then surely how it got to the location where it was found will come out at trial?
Thanks for the link, Alethea, and thanks, too, to Arnie for interesting contributions to this thread. I can't help but notice that the propane tank and (possibly) the incinerator were securely and permanently attached to the flatbed trailer. This makes sense because these are very heavy items that could not just be manhandled onto the trailer by a couple of people. This still leaves me wondering how there would be a burnt area or ashes on the ground under the trailer as has been reported. Wouldn't there, at the very least, be the blocked in outline of the trailer in that burnt area? If the incinerator burns with such heat on its underside, wouldn't that potentially damage the tires? Again, pardon me if I missed this in the thread, but I haven't seen any references to which vehicle (with a tow hook) that hauled that heavy equipment up the grassy hillside. It's hard to think of a good reason to move it at all. MOO. IMHO.
There was a video posted at one time showing how the Eliminator doesn't burn hot on the outside, so I don't think the scorched ground would be from the incinerator itself. Maybe from hot ashes if they were removed while still that hot, but I don't know why they would want to remove the ashes so quickly, if at all. I would think the Ram truck would have been able to move the incinerator from one spot across the field to the second spot. But again, if it was used, I don't know why they would bother doing that either.
JMO
Is it your feeling then that TB's death was not premeditated then? I noticed that you are very certain of guilt so I am curious as to whether you feel it was first degree as charged, second or manslaughter.you are right AD, I don't know why they would want to remove hot ashes either but that is you and I sitting here talking about it in a calm and relaxed place. It makes no sense to us. We have no idea what was going on there that night. But I am guessing it was not a calm situation and decisions were made without forethought..which ultimately IMO has brought these two men to be where they are now. JMO
you are right AD, I don't know why they would want to remove hot ashes either but that is you and I sitting here talking about it in a calm and relaxed place. It makes no sense to us. We have no idea what was going on there that night. But I am guessing it was not a calm situation and decisions were made without forethought..which ultimately IMO has brought these two men to be where they are now. JMO
Is it your feeling then that TB's death was not premeditated then? I noticed that you are very certain of guilt so I am curious as to whether you feel it was first degree as charged, second or manslaughter.
I am not sold on either one as of yet. I can see scenarios that would call for either first or second. I don't think manslaughter. (with regards to intent)
however, doesn't first degree come into play with regard to the abduction?
Me thinks that various parts of the body are not completely turned to ash, specifically large bones and teeth. I would think that they would have wanted to make sure there were no identifiable remains left in the machine?
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"This investigation is long from over," De Caire said as he announced the gruesome reality that "human remains have been located."
"Evidence indicates the remains have been burned."
The coroner's office and the Centre of Forensic Science is assisting, Kavanagh told a press conference.
"The cause of death comes from the expertise that comes from the coroner's office," Kavanagh said., noting that the exact cause of death will not be known until that examination is complete.
An incinerator has been found at a farm owned by the man accused of murdering Tim Bosma, confirms the homicide detective in charge of the investigation.
But police are not certain if it was used to burn the Ancaster man's body, says Det. Sgt. Matt Kavanagh.
Kavanagh says forensic officers are trying to determine if the incinerator found on the property belonging to Dellen Millard in North Dumfries was used in connection with Bosma's murder or the disposal of his body.
Police have confirmed that an incinerator was found at the North Dumfries farm property belonging to Dellen Millard, but say theyre not sure whether the incinerator is connected to the death of Tim Bosma.
Good point. I could see the forcible confinement charge being very difficult to prove. TB went on the test drive willingly and obviously there was no planned route. So what constitutes FC? Obviously if he was alive for a long period of time, he was being held against his will, but that doesn't appear to be the case. If he took a bullet to the head the moment they left for the test drive, would there have been FC? Unless one of the accused talks it seems that it will be very difficult to prove.
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“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge.
"We are convinced by the totality of the evidence that these are the remains of Tim Bosma," De Caire said. "The evidence indicates that the remains were burned."
The Police Chief voiced another very curious statement according to the early reports. IMO.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/14/police-update-tim-bosma-case
I've always been puzzled by this "totality of the evidence" reference. To me it suggests that there was really nothing but ashes - those later delivered to the widow who was understandably distressed by the remains being delivered "in a small box". Is it possible that the "totality of the evidence" statement refers to TB's personal belingings - a wallet, a jackknife, a wristwatch, boots, a belt buckle - I don't know but something usually worn by or customarily in the possession of the person?
Still, there was also a reference to an "unrecognizable body" in other reports which suggests there was much more than just ashes to contribute to this "totality of the evidence." Blood evidence perhaps? This possibility also seems more consistent with the extraordinarily swift identification. Yet, as already mentioned, the widow was very distraught by the "small box". Surely, TB's body would not have been fully cremated without the family's involvement. Certainly the police department would not have taken that initiative.
Of course, as far as the prosecution is concerned, presuming it can be proven beyond question that the remains of TB were found on the Ayr farm, then there is still the challenge of asserting, beyond reasonable doubt, that TB came to his untimely end at the hands of one or other or both of those charged. The only way I can see that possibility being presented by the prosecutors would be if there was blood evidence found in the truck. Nevertheless you would still have to prove that the blood was of a sufficient amount to have resulted in a death and, perhaps more importantly, that the persons inside the truck were TB, DM and/or MS. This presumes that the person theoretically waiting for them in a fast-food parking lot never really existed and the vehicle considered to have followed them also never really existed (or they existed but easily proven to be irrelevant.)
Seems to be quite a mystery but apparently the first degree murder charges are so easily proven and the sudden deaths so obviously took place at the hands of those charged that the Attorney General of Ontario all but stated her belief that their conviction is assured. Amazing!
"The cause of death comes from the expertise that comes from the coroner's office," Kavanagh said., noting that the exact cause of death will not be known until that examination is complete.
I was wondering about the wood chipper that was at the hangar. Was it taken by police and could it have been used in conjunction with the incinerator in the disposal of Tim Bosma?
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/inciner...elonging-to-accused-in-bosma-murder-1.1284332
... It's been suggested also the wood chipper might have been a "hot" item which was painted green. Hmm the green would blend moreso into the farmland surrounding as opposed to the construction yellow the manufacturer paints them.
i know the color of this particular chipper looks odd... but do we know the make of it? they do come in colors other than "construction yellow": red, light green, dark green, orange, black, blue, white... (see your search engine and images)
06-04-2013, 03:16 AM
onlooker62
Since I just sold my own Vermeer wood chipper (Having been in the business for years), I can assure you THAT is a repainted Vermeer BC1000XL. It's new enough to not NEED a paint job. I'd be suspicious of that particular machine's provenance.
I found this image that was posted on WS by a member here. Unfortunately I can't find the actual post it is associated with. The new formatting of WS has broken many images it seems:
View attachment 58302
http://oi43.tinypic.com/set668.jpg
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-209826.html