The Ligatures

[Blue Bottle 01]

The artist's rendering shows it much higher and to the left of where it actually was.

How do you know that?

I'm not disputing that her arms were raised in an unnatural position while in rigor. I'm simply saying there are things that are slightly wrong with that sketch, so you can't use it to say that's what was found.

How do you know that?

So I imagine you're saying she was posed for a short enough period of time for Patsy to simply see it and then let her down after fulfilling this fantasy?

Yes. IMO.

Why then would her arms be put back into the raised position afterwards while the rigor takes place?

They weren't. They remained in that position.

So do you think Patsy was able unassisted to raise JonBenet's body by the cord high enough to somehow afix it to something stationary? Even partially suspended, from what you've described, her torso would be vertical accounting for most of her 45 pounds.

Yes. IMO.

 

[dodie20]

What do you mean? TIA

If not for fetish, why else would someone feel the urge to pose a dead body? and then unpose it? It sounds like, (please correct me if I'm wrong), that you think the killer did this so he could admire his work? Really, if you think about the time constraints involved, there wouldn't have been time to waste on such things- because the killer had a 3 page ransom note to write, among other things. IMO, the only reason to pose a body besides fetish, would be to shock and hurt the person you knew would discover the body-but then unposing it wouldn't make sense. moo

 

[dodie20]

Why not?

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think something like this would be a one time urge? If the urge was there to do it this time, then IMO, the urge would be there to do it again and again. all moo.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

If not for fetish, why else would someone feel the urge to pose a dead body? and then unpose it? It sounds like, (please correct me if I'm wrong), that you think the killer did this so he could admire his work? Really, if you think about the time constraints involved, there wouldn't have been time to waste on such things- because the killer had a 3 page ransom note to write, among other things. IMO, the only reason to pose a body besides fetish, would be to shock and hurt the person you knew would discover the body-but then unposing it wouldn't make sense. moo

Sorry but that was not an explanation of fetish.

There was no he. Patsy was a she.

There was plenty of time, from midnight to 530 am.

There was no "un"posing.

IMO.

 

[Tadpole12]

heyya dodie,

If not for fetish, why

Ritual comes to mind?
Although, it could be a personalized ritual rather than religious.

I've been reading a bit about deliverance, and how to sever demonic ties:
Pigs in the Parlour: A Practical Guide to Deliverance, Hammond is referenced online.

http://www.breadoflifebiblestudy.co...lWarfare/Articles/DeliveranceManualLARGE1.pdf

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

heyya dodie,



Ritual comes to mind?
Although, it could be a personalized ritual rather than religious.

Bingo.

IMO.

 

[DeDee]

The deliberate murder of a six year old girl was no movie.

Would you be so kind as to point me to the place where I can read your theory on the murder of JonBenet? Do you feel it was premeditated by Patsy well in advance? Why would she wish to pose her daughter as she is killing her?
TIA

 

[otg]

I wasn't referring to the photo where she was obviously turned to her left in order to photograph the right side of her face. This photo shows where her right hand is in relation to her head. The artist's rendering shows it much higher and to the left of where it actually was. I'm not disputing that her arms were raised in an unnatural position while in rigor. I'm simply saying there are things that are slightly wrong with that sketch, so you can't use it to say that's what was found.

So I imagine you're saying she was posed for a short enough period of time for Patsy to simply see it and then let her down after fulfilling this fantasy? Why then would her arms be put back into the raised position afterwards while the rigor takes place?

So do you think Patsy was able unassisted to raise JonBenet's body by the cord high enough to somehow afix it to something stationary? Even partially suspended, from what you've described, her torso would be vertical accounting for most of her 45 pounds.

How do you know that?

Because I took the time to look at the photo I linked in my post.

How do you know that?

Again, look at both the drawing and then the picture I linked, as well as the other photos that were taken.

Yes. IMO.

Then you don't feel she was suspended for more than a few minutes?

They weren't. They remained in that position.

And why would they remain in that position? You just said she was only in that suspended position for a short period of time, and now you're saying she was suspended for as long as it took for rigor to form and keep them there? It's one or the other -- it can't be both. Don't you see the contradiction?

Yes. IMO.

Then you think Patsy was a lot stronger than I do.

 

[dodie20]

Sorry but that was not an explanation of fetish.

There was no he. Patsy was a she.

There was plenty of time, from midnight to 530 am.

There was no "un"posing.

IMO.

You asked me, "what do you mean? so I told you what I meant. Sorry it wasn't satisfactory, but it's what I meant. And yes, I know PR was a she. Sometimes I deliberately use the word he to avoid having to write he/she. And you said, "she was posed and then taken down and placed in the small room well before rigor". If that isn't 'unposing', what is it? This theory loses me. Unless the posing was done as some sort of punishment or restraint before death, I'm not buying it. Sorry, but I don't think PR was that kind of person...the kind of person who would gloat over her murdered daughter and pose her so she could admire her work. If this isn't what you meant, can you please share what you did mean? because you said, "The killer, Patsy, posed the body for the killer, Patsy, to view". moo

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The posing made the object seem to participate willingly in what was done and that was the trip to Heaven. One daughter, one trip, one and done. IMO

 

[txsvicki]

Wouldn't that be a personal yet religious ritual? I'd think if the arms were up, that's how they were moved at the very last after the body being placed in the wine cellar. It would be easier to tie wrists with arms up instead of them laying across a body.

 

[wengr]

I would suggest that we all go to our basements, and take a finger and wipe the top of any exposed pipes, fixtures, etc.
I would doubt anyone dusts or cleans the top of elevated pipes in a basement.
Where is the dirty section in the center of the wrist binding which would be quite obvious on white Stansport N-50 soft nylon cord?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I would suggest that we all go to our basements, and take a finger and wipe the top of any exposed pipes, fixtures, etc.
I would doubt anyone dusts or cleans the top of elevated pipes in a basement.
Where is the dirty section in the center of the wrist binding which would be quite obvious on white Stansport N-50 soft nylon cord?

Forensic evidence found on the cord has not been released if any was found.

My guess is the wrist cord was placed over the protruding end of the stick when it was placed into a hole.

IMO.

 

[wengr]

Forensic evidence found on the cord has not been released if any was found.

My guess is the wrist cord was placed over the protruding end of the stick when it was placed into a hole.

IMO.

By "stick", do you mean to imply the paintbrush?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

By "stick", do you mean to imply the paintbrush?

Yes..

 

[DeeDee249]

Rigor in the elbows and shoulders would form before joints in the legs. While Patsy COULD have posed and un-posed her, it would have had to be in the first few hours after death but the livor mortis patterns do not support this theory. Had her arms been moved during the period that rigor was still forming, the livor patter would indicate this. It doesn't. And once rigor formed, had the arms been moved, breaking rigor, it does not re-form. The coroner reported full rigor (meaning no evidence of broken rigor) and the photos taken at the house also show her arms in rigor.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

IMO, Patsy posed the body shortly after an initial strangulation which left the bruising on the lower front neck. She then placed the body in the small room to simulate a kidnapping where rigor set in. The arms remained in the position they were posed in by the wrist cord or were moved back into that position.

 

[wengr]

Yes..

Thanks for the response. Do for feel that the paintbrush is broken as a result of the suspension, or for some other reason?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The possibilites are: it was broken when one end was in a hole to suspend the body, it was broken to shorten it so that it fit into a space or the break was previous and had nothing to do with a particular function that night.

I don't recall a forensic determination as to the freshness of the break although the report of the shard in the vagina would suggest a recent break with loose pieces still hanging on. And I think the shard was transfered by a finger.

If the investigators had not assumed it was a fake garrote they might have looked for a hole or something the handle could fit into for suspension.

IMO.

 

[wengr]

The possibilites are: it was broken when one end was in a hole to suspend the body, it was broken to shorten it so that it fit into a space or the break was previous and had nothing to do with a particular function that night..

Assuming that the break was fresh, and your first possibility was the case, then it should stand to reason that the hole would be found right above the location where the splinters were discovered on the floor. No?