The only theory that makes any real sense.

[madeleine]

I honestly find it very hard to believe that BR had a thing to do with all of this, and just because he seems like a good scapegoat, I would not blame an innocent child of anything like this. I think if he did something to JB and it was an accident no matter how bad it looked that the parentals would have called 911. I have children and they have hurt each other as children do..no matter what it was I would have called 911. I just dont buy that they did all this horrendous stuff to their daughter to cover their sons butt. That is my opinion.
I also don't find it odd that they whisked him out of that house, I would have probably gotten my other children out of a place like that too, they would not need to see or hear all of this grusome detail about their dead sister. Not stuff that a child should hear or be around. I would however make my child available for questioning to LE.

BBM
I can agree with this BUT you as a parent would wake him up immediately and question him about what he might have heard/saw that night.They claim they never asked him about it.They didn't even go and check if he's alright,he might have been dead in his bed fgs.I am having a HUGE problem with this.

 

[SeekingJana]

Some thoughts regarding the alleged plans for JonBenet's body to leave the house:
We know that they skipped the last delivery of fruit baskets on their route home the night of the 25h after dinner at the White's house. They've admitted there was a deviation in their plans, but not specifically why. Also, since they were flying first to MI, then on to FL and a cruise where JBR would be a Miss Hawaiian Tropic contestant in her age group, there is no way one household of friends was going to get their perishable Christmas gift, as it would be spoiled by the time of their return.
I believe it was the Stine's basket, but may have been the Fernie's.

So, one could assume that perhaps they were home earlier than they have said. We don't know, but I have always believed the fruit basket incident was put in for a reason. JonBenet's TOD is estimated by a matter of a few hours because the M.E. couldn't be bothered to come to the crime scene ( Ramsey's house) until around 8 PM, many hours after the murder. Many things could be done within a few hours.

John Ramsey was a licensed pilot at the time, and the plane which was to be used for the MI trip was his. At one time, the Ramseys claimed he had cataracts preventing him from piloting, but I saw him driving a car within the same time frame.

About the clothing in the black plastic bags: As stated above, they were meeting Melinda and her fiance' Stuart ( now her husband) and John Andrew in Michigan, then they were booked on a Disney cruise. At some point while they were in Florida, JonBenet was to compete in her age division of the Miss Hawaiian Tropic pageant. It would have been the largest pageant she was booked for. Was Patsy planning on them showing up at the pageant with their clothing tossed into black plastic garbage bags? It does not make a bit of sense when you break down where they were going and why.
Also, Patsy has said that she was anxious to make a good impression on Melinda's fiance'.

I think the clothing tossed into garbage bags was a desperate attempt in the midst of murder, staging and general mayhem to show that they had " packed" for the long trips they were scheduled to take. Some of the clothing was damp, as in " crime scene cleanup damp". Boulder PD didn't know how to process the crime scene, that much is clear!

 

[Darlene733510]

Does anyone recall that JR's pilot went to the R home, and JR gave him a box. I have no idea of the size of the box, but I sure would like to know what it contained. I will always wonder what was in that box, just as I wonder about the scarf that he put over JB as she lay in the coffin.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Greetings, SweetT.

Only problem with the bolded part is that at the time BR was whisked out of the house, there was no dead sister -- there was a kidnapped sister. Had there actually been a kidnapping (as was the ruse) of a Ramsey child, where would the remaining child be safer? At a friend's house... or in a house full of cops, victim advocates, the priest, and every friend you could think of to invite over (except for one family)?

Now OTOH, if the Ramseys knew what was eventually going to be found...

But instead, the Ramseys said later they were infuriated because they found out that a cop had asked BR some questions at the Whites' house -- not as a suspect mind you, but to see if they could get any information that would help them find out who had kidnapped his sister during the night.

I think the whisked him out so that they could concentrate on the issue at hand.. JBR missing and that they wanted him protected somewhere else. They had no idea what was going to go on and with all the people there? It would have been a lot for br only 9. This just seems plausible to me as a mother who went through having a child go missing even for a short while.

No one should question a child without a parent's permission. Especially one of 9. I would have been furious too.

 

[BOESP]

Iirc, according to Patsy she screamed to John that morning before the 911 call, he came downstairs in his underwear to read the so-called ransom note. He said he ran back upstairs to check on Burke, cracked the door to Burke's bedroom and saw that Burke was asleep and quietly closed the door. So, he apparently did check on Burke but I probably would have awoken Burke to ask him if he had seen or heard anything. Afterall, Burke is going to find out that his sister is missing so there isn't an excuse for not asking. Burke also stated that at the time he just pretended to be asleep.

Secondly, I heard the tape where Burke's voice was in the background, along with John's "We're not speaking to you" and Patsy's "Help me Jesus." I can't swear to anything but hearing that tape many years ago and thinking that it sounded exactly like their voices. The child's voice sounded like a young male.

So, Burke could not have been in bed pretending to be asleep and up talking at the same time.

Patsy stated that Burke was an early riser every morning. Why would he feel the need to stay in bed and pretend to be asleep thirty minutes before the family was scheduled to depart on a trip? It's jmo but I'd speculate he was told from the get-go to pretend he was asleep if anyone asked.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Iirc, according to Patsy she screamed to John that morning before the 911 call, he came downstairs in his underwear to read the so-called ransom note. He said he ran back upstairs to check on Burke, cracked the door to Burke's bedroom and saw that Burke was asleep and quietly closed the door. So, he apparently did check on Burke but I probably would have awoken Burke to ask him if he had seen or heard anything. Afterall, Burke is going to find out that his sister is missing so there isn't an excuse for not asking. Burke also stated that at the time he just pretended to be asleep.

Secondly, I heard the tape where Burke's voice was in the background, along with John's "We're not speaking to you" and Patsy's "Help me Jesus." I can't swear to anything but hearing that tape many years ago and thinking that it sounded exactly like their voices. The child's voice sounded like a young male.

So, Burke could not have been in bed pretending to be asleep and up talking at the same time.

Patsy stated that Burke was an early riser every morning. Why would he feel the need to stay in bed and pretend to be asleep thirty minutes before the family was scheduled to depart on a trip? It's jmo but I'd speculate he was told from the get-go to pretend he was asleep if anyone asked.

I listened to the tape and I didn't hear any of that, no matter how long I listened with head phones and multiple sources..

I would probably not woken the child. I would have wanted to focus on what was going on right then.. Them not waking him means not much to me..

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

I used to be a full on "PR did it!" supporter, but when you think long and hard about it, it doesn't really add up. If it's an accident, you call the police. If PR or JR is the intentional culprit, there's just no compelling rationale for why they cover for the other. Again, you call the police.

The only way they work together crafting a ransom note and staging the elaborate kidnapping is if the risk (being caught covering up a murder) is worth the reward. What could that valuable reward be, except for the protection of their other child.

A BDI theory is the only one that really makes sense. He kills JBR and the parents realize that his life is now ruined. This one act has taken both their daughter AND their son away from them.

Panic sets in and suddenly the idea of being able to save their child from prosecution doesn't seem so crazy. If there's an outside chance that the charade will work, the R's decide to risk it so that they won't lose their son and he can have a shot at a 'normal' life.

Suddenly all the evidence makes sense. It is just a smokescreen. If the R's did do it, this is really the only logical explanation for the whole entire ruse.

I've thought all the same things as you just expressed here.

But one thing always bugs me -- the nature of the coverup. Assume the garrote and genital trauma were coverup, it would a pretty 'determined' person to do that. It's one thing to lie but to then actually interject yourself into the crime in such a horrific manner and strangle your daughter's neck, probe her genitls etc. I always struggle with that.

Yet, I can totally buy the parent(s) wanting to cover for a kid. It's such a paradox.

Obviously the parent(s) felt they couldn't go to the police for whatever reason. Say the head injury came first and it was an accident why not call the police? Perhaps Patsy hit JonBenet accidentally killing her but knew she couldn't go to the police because she was aware JonBenet was being molested? Maybe she was the molester? Maybe she allowed or knew someone else was. Maybe that's what prevented her from calling 911 if the accidental head injury thing happened first. The fact that dirty secrets would be expressed. The head injury trapped her into the lie. Or to go with your line of thinking -- Burke's actions trapped them into a lie.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I listened to the tape and I didn't hear any of that, no matter how long I listened with head phones and multiple sources..

I would probably not woken the child. I would have wanted to focus on what was going on right then.. Them not waking him means not much to me..

Personally, I fear he was murdered in his bed! I'd want to wake him to be sure he was alive!

Then I'd want to know if he saw anything during the night or heard anything. After all his room was located very close to hers.


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[otg]

I've thought all the same things as you just expressed here.

But one thing always bugs me -- the nature of the coverup. Assume the garrote and genital trauma were coverup, it would a pretty 'determined' person to do that. It's one thing to lie but to then actually interject yourself into the crime in such a horrific manner and strangle your daughter's neck, probe her genitls etc. I always struggle with that.

Yet, I can totally buy the parent(s) wanting to cover for a kid. It's such a paradox.

Obviously the parent(s) felt they couldn't go to the police for whatever reason. Say the head injury came first and it was an accident why not call the police? Perhaps Patsy hit JonBenet accidentally killing her but knew she couldn't go to the police because she was aware JonBenet was being molested? Maybe she was the molester? Maybe she allowed or knew someone else was. Maybe that's what prevented her from calling 911 if the accidental head injury thing happened first. The fact that dirty secrets would be expressed. The head injury trapped her into the lie. Or to go with your line of thinking -- Burke's actions trapped them into a lie.

Assuming the “garrote” and genital trauma to be cover-ups may be the reason for your difficulty in seeing how this may have happened, causing the R’s to inject themselves into the crime. Indeed, I think it’s the biggest reason investigators haven’t been able to see it for what it was.

Consider for a moment that what the parents were confronted with in the middle of the night was a sexually assaulted child who had been accidentally killed by strangulation. The appearance of everything that happened pointed to the person responsible. In order to “save” that person (and their own public image), they had to alter the appearance of everything to make it look like something else -- and make it look like anyone else did it, even if it meant throwing their own friends/acquaintances/employees/business associates under the proverbial bus.

The RN they invented didn’t work very well -- the FBI saw through that immediately. But it did throw off the BPD long enough to have them treated like victims instead of suspects. It is probably the main reason they were allowed to leave the house without being searched for evidence or taken into custody for questioning.

But the “garrote”: Oh, that worked like a charm. I have to give credit to JR for a brilliant idea. I think it’s obvious that it’s not real, but almost everyone tries to figure out how it might have been used because they can’t get past the fact that it was found attached to her neck. Even though it isn’t anything like a real garrote, and it wouldn’t functionally work very well for the purpose its presence implies, no one can get past realizing it wasn’t used as it was found on JonBenet’s neck. It was altered to make it appear to be something else entirely because, if investigators knew what really happened, their first suspect would probably be the one the parents were covering for.

And as for the sexual injuries, don’t fall for the incorrect (IMO) assumption they were inflicted to hide something else. That logic is flawed simply because of the evidence of an attempt to erase that aspect of what happened.

One other thing to consider, LFB: What if the parents didn’t even know about the head blow? There were no visual signs of it. Even the coroner was unaware of it until he peeled back her scalp and saw the blood and the cracked skull. The parents may very well have only known about the obvious signs of the recent sexual assault and the accidental strangulation. Perhaps they thought they could hide the evidence of the sexual part and it wouldn’t be discovered; and the accidental strangulation was altered to make it appear to be intentional.

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

But the “garrote”: Oh, that worked like a charm. I have to give credit to JR for a brilliant idea. I think it’s obvious that it’s not real, but almost everyone tries to figure out how it might have been used because they can’t get past the fact that it was found attached to her neck. Even though it isn’t anything like a real garrote, and it wouldn’t functionally work very well for the purpose its presence implies, no one can get past realizing it wasn’t used as it was found on JonBenet’s neck. It was altered to make it appear to be something else entirely because, if investigators knew what really happened, their first suspect would probably be the one the parents were covering for.

And as for the sexual injuries, don’t fall for the incorrect (IMO) assumption they were inflicted to hide something else. That logic is flawed simply because of the evidence of an attempt to erase that aspect of what happened.

.

I don't truly believe the sexual injuries were staging if I was to put a theory on the line.I don't believe as some do that the cellulose found was proof that a paintbrush handle was used to penetrate for example.It could represent contamination from the garrote handle on the perps hands passed on by the manual molestation.

With regards the first point above: the garrote is a complex issue.And by garrote I'm using it interchangeably to mean EA device which I know is absolutely incorrect but it's a bad habit I've got so apologies .One issue I have is whether it may look corrupt to us (that is why people say it wasn't an EA device) but that the manner in which it was used was misunderstood. Or rather, perhaps the perpetrator was attempting some sort of EA device and precisely because the device was incorrectly structured, this led to a strangulation. What I'm saying is that perhaps there was a conflict between what the perp wanted the device for and what/how it actually existed in reality.

And then I suppose this gets back to one of the core issues: what came first, the head blow or the neck trauma?

If people subscribe to the head blow first theory I think they by nature tend to be more sceptical of the device being a sex device of some sort. But I can't think of any reason why JonBenet would be hit of the head first. Even the 'accident' theory is too speculative for me.

But my reasoning is this: we know for a fact that the one thing which precedes the death of JonBenet but was also a factor in her death was the sex abuse. Before she died she was being molested. And the night she died, she was being molested. So there is an overwhelming sexual component to her death. I tend to reason that she was being molested and that the neck device strangled her -- the neck 'game' was related to the genital molestation which we know happened.It was kinky and sex related. She was then hit over the head after that which is congruent with the fact barely 7ccs of blood was drawn from the brain showing perhaps the heart had stopped beating already from the strangulation. To me, that just seems the simplest explanation for everything that happened.

So, the events may have went like this:

Molestation> neck game> JonBenet screams> perp panics and pulls cord too tight > cord presses on vagal nerve causing heart to stop beating> then perp hits her over head to make sure she was dead/simulate vicious intruder attack.> Ransom note is written etc.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

[dodie20]

Even after reading all the arguments for BDI, I just can't get past PDI. I can see how it could be, but am convinced that she wrote that ransom note in an attempt to get J out of the house and herself and B on a plane out of there.

Speaking of that note, IMO, money was a major issue here and the author really wanted it, so your theory about PR wanting to hop on a plane is interesting. Awhile back I showed my daughter the note and after reading it, this is exactly what she thought...that the author wanted money so she could get away.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wouldn't work. A coroner can tell whether she really did fall. The injuries would be different. How many times have you read or heard about parents bringing a child that has been beaten to the hospital and saying the child "fell down the stairs". They always get caught.

Just as a note on this...I was absolutely horrified when my then 18 month old son broke his arm.

We were at home together and he was doing his thing, climbing.

I was in one armchair, he was on the sofa arm, and there was a very small coffee table jammed between the two.

My son fell awkwardly on the coffee table and cried, but he'd literally fallen 5 inches or so. I had no idea he'd broken his arm, put him in the bath a bit later, watching him playing with his toys, thought "no, nothings broken", but the mother instinct must've still been bothered because I asked my husband when he got home...him and his brothers had broken nearly every bone in their bodies between them as kids whereas I've never broken anything nor my sibs.

He went up and grabbed my boy's arm and my boy yowled...off to ER we go.

I went to the specialised womens & childrens hospital where they reset it, poor little man had to be in a cast for ages.

Anyway I was expecting the whole "tell us how this happened" grill, but no one even asked me.

Apparently they could tell simply by the nature of the break, exactly how he'd done it - by falling awkwardly, a very short distance.

 

[dodie20]

I don't truly believe the sexual injuries were staging if I was to put a theory on the line.I don't believe as some do that the cellulose found was proof that a paintbrush handle was used to penetrate for example.It could represent contamination from the garrote handle on the perps hands passed on by the manual molestation.

With regards the first point above: the garrote is a complex issue.And by garrote I'm using it interchangeably to mean EA device which I know is absolutely incorrect but it's a bad habit I've got so apologies .One issue I have is whether it may look corrupt to us (that is why people say it wasn't an EA device) but that the manner in which it was used was misunderstood. Or rather, perhaps the perpetrator was attempting some sort of EA device and precisely because the device was incorrectly structured, this led to a strangulation. What I'm saying is that perhaps there was a conflict between what the perp wanted the device for and what/how it actually existed in reality.

And then I suppose this gets back to one of the core issues: what came first, the head blow or the neck trauma?

If people subscribe to the head blow first theory I think they by nature tend to be more sceptical of the device being a sex device of some sort. But I can't think of any reason why JonBenet would be hit of the head first. Even the 'accident' theory is too speculative for me.

But my reasoning is this: we know for a fact that the one thing which precedes the death of JonBenet but was also a factor in her death was the sex abuse. Before she died she was being molested. And the night she died, she was being molested. So there is an overwhelming sexual component to her death. I tend to reason that she was being molested and that the neck device strangled her -- the neck 'game' was related to the genital molestation which we know happened.It was kinky and sex related. She was then hit over the head after that which is congruent with the fact barely 7ccs of blood was drawn from the brain showing perhaps the heart had stopped beating already from the strangulation. To me, that just seems the simplest explanation for everything that happened.

So, the events may have went like this:

Molestation> neck game> JonBenet screams> perp panics and pulls cord too tight > cord presses on vagal nerve causing heart to stop beating> then perp hits her over head to make sure she was dead/simulate vicious intruder attack.> Ransom note is written etc.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

This was a very well thought out post, but since I'm one of those people who thinks the bash came 1st, here's what I consider a logical explanation for the attack. Rage. Somebody was furious and grabbed the 1st thing he/she saw and attacked. Actually, the rage and head bash is one of the few things that does make sense to me...an enraged adult lashing out at a child. The rest though, is so weird that I don't know what to think. Either somebody wanted to demoralize JB as much as possible, or it was staging to cover prior abuse, or some mind conjured up a scene to replicate a psycho rapist/killer. It's my opinion though that the motive for JB's murder was to keep from having to explain the head bash. Somebody dam*ed near obliterated her with that blow, and there's no way he/she didn't realize it. all moo.

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

This was a very well thought out post, but since I'm one of those people who thinks the bash came 1st, here's what I consider a logical explanation for the attack. Rage. Somebody was furious and grabbed the 1st thing he/she saw and attacked. Actually, the rage and head bash is one of the few things that does make sense to me...an enraged adult lashing out at a child. The rest though, is so weird that I don't know what to think. Either somebody wanted to demoralize JB as much as possible, or it was staging to cover prior abuse, or some mind conjured up a scene to replicate a psycho rapist/killer. It's my opinion though that the motive for JB's murder was to keep from having to explain the head bash. Somebody dam*ed near obliterated her with that blow, and there's no way he/she didn't realize it. all moo.

Thank you Dodie.

I could totally buy the rage theory. It could have happened like that. Absolutely. But I just feel I have to speculate on too many things. I have to assume a person would go into a rage. I'd then have to assume that person then had at hand a (flashlight?) and used it, probably once judging from the fracture, to hit a child on the head with such force, it killed her and created a 8 1/2 inch fracture. And then I have to speculate about the sexual abuse -- why was it there? Did the head basher do that too or was it separate? Iif the chronic abuse was by another person and acute abuse by the head basher, why would someone violate a kids genitals to cover the head bash which could be explained as an accident. Or even if it the head basher was worried they'd be arrested, it such lengths to go to to cover e.g. violating a kids genitals etc. But yet, it could have happened this way which is what makes the case SOOOOOOOOOO confusing.But it's the speculation that makes me feel uncomfortable here.

 

[gramcracker]

the speculation is what they counted on. they rolled the dice, and won

 

[CircuitGuy]

I think everyone who knew (or knew of) the family would find out very quickly that Burke had killed JonBenet, even if the media wasn't allowed to use their names. The R's were social climbers, and I definitely could see them being worried that their friends would not want to associate with anymore after what happened. They would not want Burke to play with their kids, or stay at their house. The family would be ostracized. Although, the family could move to another city, and no one would have any idea of their past...

I agree people knowing that BDI would stigmatize them, but I don't see how creating RN and staging avoids this. If BDI and they admitted it, it would have brought less negative attention on them than making a fake RN and putting put body in the basement.

 

[CircuitGuy]

If BR did it and the R's both cover to save him, they would have to explain the scene in a way that makes sense. The garotte and other marks on the body had to be explained in an alternative way and thus the RN & phony kidnapping.

I understand the need for a phony kidnapping, but why the RN, esp an RN inconsistent with where the body was?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Patsy does everything "over the top"


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[CircuitGuy]

The appearance of everything that happened pointed to the person responsible. In order to “save” that person (and their own public image), they had to alter the appearance of everything to make it look like something else -- and make it look like anyone else did it, even if it meant throwing their own friends/acquaintances/employees/business associates under the proverbial bus.

As you say, this effort, esp the RN, part did not work very well. The elaborate staging and RN are why people are talking about it 15 years later.

The RN they invented didn’t work very well -- the FBI saw through that immediately. But it did throw off the BPD long enough to have them treated like victims instead of suspects. It is probably the main reason they were allowed to leave the house without being searched for evidence or taken into custody for questioning.

Why is this? The RN note was inconsistent with finding the body in the house. Suppose they had just called the police and said they woke up and found her down there? That would make more logical sense than the RN.

Did the RN just threw the police off? Was the whole thing just so illogical that the police were paralyzed and confused?

I understand the RN making them look like victims prior to the body being found. Once the body was found, however, the RN made things look more suspicious. The note said they were going to hold her hostage in exchange for money. They presumably would take her out a door to a vehicle. If they had killed her by accident, it would have been between her room and a door. Why hide her body in the basement?

Was the RN just an ill-conceived artifice that by pure luck managed to throw the police off for a few hours?

 

[bettybaby00]

Was the RN just an ill-conceived artifice that by pure luck managed to throw the police off for a few hours?

I think your final comment reflects to a large extent what happened. They Rs were holed up in that house for 6 hours waiting for LE to leave so they could continue to carry out their plan. That's not even considering the time between her death and the 911 call.

Between the actual murder, the staging, and the undoing, it's almost as if there are 3 different crime scenes. And luckily for the Rs neither the scene or the family were viewed with the proper perspective. valuable evidence was forever lost while the Rs garnered the time needed to protect themselves.