The only theory that makes any real sense.

[SeekingJana]

The info that JBR was not supposed to remain in the house was courtesy of the She- Beast, and I do consider it to be valid and it is a part of my whole understanding of what happened that night.
I cannot say with certainty which parent did what or if John did anything at all prior to JBR's death, as I see Patsy all over the crime scene. Also the RN was her work.

What She-Beast did NOT say was HOW the body was to be disposed of, but wasn't.

Remember all those calls John placed to his pilot early in the AM on the 26th? Remember, too, that Patsy had stuffed dirty, wet, and otherwise unsuitably prepared clothing in big black plastic bags and planned to load them onto the plane in that manner, she claimed.

JonBenet weighed less than 40 lbs. She was tiny for 6 years old. However, remember how John brought her body up the stairs from the basement and lay her under the Christmas tree? Held straight out from his body- this was probably due to the degree of rigor mortis...

My theory has been that it's a toss up about what they were thinking of doing and why.. Maybe a drop from the plane into the wilderness, maybe a more cautious dump from a vehicle. Since I do not believe either one had any experience with disposing of a child's tiny remains, especially not figuring in the rigor mortis setting in, I think at least one parent was very desperate to get this done, but could not.
Maybe Burke was not the causative factor in not dumping the body. Maybe the state of the body was its own cause. Maybe the dumping was the deal- breaker for one parent.. John had already lost a daughter.. He had to balance grief with level- headedness this time around to stay out of prison.

We most likely will never know exactly who did what when and why, will we?

I will never forget JonBenet or the years spent on her case. It is a murder mystery wrapped up in so many family secrets and lies and intrigue. She was just a little girl with a new bike and a dog she loved. When you can, look at the photos of her alive and so natural in her real clothes, hair and so forth. Keeping her memory alive ( without the spector of death) is maybe the best gift we can give her spirit so many years later.

 

[Chelly]

The info that JBR was not supposed to remain in the house was courtesy of the She- Beast, and I do consider it to be valid and it is a part of my whole understanding of what happened that night.
I cannot say with certainty which parent did what or if John did anything at all prior to JBR's death, as I see Patsy all over the crime scene. Also the RN was her work.

What She-Beast did NOT say was HOW the body was to be disposed of, but wasn't.

Remember all those calls John placed to his pilot early in the AM on the 26th? Remember, too, that Patsy had stuffed dirty, wet, and otherwise unsuitably prepared clothing in big black plastic bags and planned to load them onto the plane in that manner, she claimed.

JonBenet weighed less than 40 lbs. She was tiny for 6 years old. However, remember how John brought her body up the stairs from the basement and lay her under the Christmas tree? Held straight out from his body- this was probably due to the degree of rigor mortis...

My theory has been that it's a toss up about what they were thinking of doing and why.. Maybe a drop from the plane into the wilderness, maybe a more cautious dump from a vehicle. Since I do not believe either one had any experience with disposing of a child's tiny remains, especially not figuring in the rigor mortis setting in, I think at least one parent was very desperate to get this done, but could not.
Maybe Burke was not the causative factor in not dumping the body. Maybe the state of the body was its own cause. Maybe the dumping was the deal- breaker for one parent.. John had already lost a daughter.. He had to balance grief with level- headedness this time around to stay out of prison.

We most likely will never know exactly who did what when and why, will we?

I will never forget JonBenet or the years spent on her case. It is a murder mystery wrapped up in so many family secrets and lies and intrigue. She was just a little girl with a new bike and a dog she loved. When you can, look at the photos of her alive and so natural in her real clothes, hair and so forth. Keeping her memory alive ( without the spector of death) is maybe the best gift we can give her spirit so many years later.

SeekingJana:
BBM......Thanks for this. I hadn't know that PR packed stuff in trash bags, but certainly she had the opportunity to bring anything on that plane. I always thought the original plan had been to dump the body. But I couldn't imagine that they'd bring it on the plane. Now that theory is beginning to make sense. JB, after all, was quite small. That could have been managed easily. Something interfered with the plan to dump the body. The interference was either the 911 call to police or BR seeing the body.

 

[Venom]

I read somewhere that the reason things were packed into plastic bags was the weight issue with the plane.

 

[Venom]

SeekingJana:
BBM......Thanks for this. I hadn't know that PR packed stuff in trash bags, but certainly she had the opportunity to bring anything on that plane. I always thought the original plan had been to dump the body. But I couldn't imagine that they'd bring it on the plane. Now that theory is beginning to make sense. JB, after all, was quite small. That could have been managed easily. Something interfered with the plan to dump the body. The interference was either the 911 call to police or BR seeing the body.

Is it just me, or is it odd to have dirty, wet clothing just thrown in bags to go on a trip with? To me PR would seem to want to be a little, how should I say this, well put together?? As in having clean, dry clothing packed. Off topic I guess.

 

[Chrishope]

The info that JBR was not supposed to remain in the house was courtesy of the She- Beast, and I do consider it to be valid and it is a part of my whole understanding of what happened that night.
I cannot say with certainty which parent did what or if John did anything at all prior to JBR's death, as I see Patsy all over the crime scene. Also the RN was her work.

What She-Beast did NOT say was HOW the body was to be disposed of, but wasn't.

Remember all those calls John placed to his pilot early in the AM on the 26th? Remember, too, that Patsy had stuffed dirty, wet, and otherwise unsuitably prepared clothing in big black plastic bags and planned to load them onto the plane in that manner, she claimed.

JonBenet weighed less than 40 lbs. She was tiny for 6 years old. However, remember how John brought her body up the stairs from the basement and lay her under the Christmas tree? Held straight out from his body- this was probably due to the degree of rigor mortis...

My theory has been that it's a toss up about what they were thinking of doing and why.. Maybe a drop from the plane into the wilderness, maybe a more cautious dump from a vehicle. Since I do not believe either one had any experience with disposing of a child's tiny remains, especially not figuring in the rigor mortis setting in, I think at least one parent was very desperate to get this done, but could not.
Maybe Burke was not the causative factor in not dumping the body. Maybe the state of the body was its own cause. Maybe the dumping was the deal- breaker for one parent.. John had already lost a daughter.. He had to balance grief with level- headedness this time around to stay out of prison.

We most likely will never know exactly who did what when and why, will we?

I will never forget JonBenet or the years spent on her case. It is a murder mystery wrapped up in so many family secrets and lies and intrigue. She was just a little girl with a new bike and a dog she loved. When you can, look at the photos of her alive and so natural in her real clothes, hair and so forth. Keeping her memory alive ( without the spector of death) is maybe the best gift we can give her spirit so many years later.

My bet would be a cautious dump from a vehicle.

First, how were they going to explain, to their pilot, jettisoning things from the plane? Was JR going to fly it himself? How were they going to explain this to Burke?

Second, the type of injury done to a body from falling would be apparent if and when the body were found. Wouldn't look good to own a plane and have your dead daughter's body display the types of injuries sustained from falling a great distance. Of course they could fly low to make the dump.

Third, if the body is dumped from great altitude then there is no way to know who is below. Someone may look up and see the object fall from the plane. Even if the plane is too high to be seen, or has cloud cover, someone might be near where the body lands so they will report that to the police - "A body fell out of the sky". Again, if you have a plane and a dead daughter, you don't want someone to see the body falling from the sky. If they fly low, then of course the plane is likely to be seen.

Fourth, what if the body were dumped from the plane, and no one saw it fall, but someone discovered the body 15 minutes later? Could be hikers, joggers, dogs, mountain bikers.....etc. So the police are called and establish that the body was found at such and such time, let's say 140 miles from Boulder. With time found established the police could work out that the body was discovered one hour after the Rs plane took off. Again, doesn't look too good.

Fifth, dumping over water provides a somewhat better chance. If she was weighted it might be days before she was washed up on shore. Maybe longer. But if the body ever did wash up, it would again show the signs falling from altitude.

Finally, how were they going to explain taking a plane trip to MI when their daughter would, apparently, still be in the hands of kidnappers.

Additionally, the RN says the delivery of ransom will be exhausting, which I take to me lengthy - e.g. plenty of time to drive around looking for a dumping spot.

I doubt dumping her from a plane was considered for more than a brief moment, if at all.

 

[madeleine]

Maybe the plan was to put her in the Samsonite suitcase?People knew they were prepared for a trip so a suitcase wouldn't have looked suspicious?

 

[Venom]

Could the plan have been to never actually dump her body? But for it to be "found" when JR went to deliver the ransom money. He could say his instructions told him to drive to a desolate area and she would be there.

 

[Chrishope]

Could the plan have been to never actually dump her body? But for it to be "found" when JR went to deliver the ransom money. He could say his instructions told him to drive to a desolate area and she would be there.

Well, if you mean could he have "dropped" the money in one place, then went to another place where the "kidnappers" said she'd be and "found" her dead, yes.

If you mean he was just following delivery instructions and when he got to the final destination to make the drop he "found" her there, no.

 

[Venom]

Well, if you mean could he have "dropped" the money in one place, then went to another place where the "kidnappers" said she'd be and "found" her dead, yes.

If you mean he was just following delivery instructions and when he got to the final destination to make the drop he "found" her there, no.

Yes, that he made the "drop" and went to get her and found her dead.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Could the plan have been to never actually dump her body? But for it to be "found" when JR went to deliver the ransom money. He could say his instructions told him to drive to a desolate area and she would be there.

What sense does that make? If you have a kidnapping and you are staging it, leaving the body in the house kind of tosses that whole cover up out the window. So what is the point in the first place? All they would do if they stage a kidnapping and don't go through with it is make more evidence against them.

That is why I believe that kidnapping was the plan before someone walked in there. They planned to take her, They Rewrote the note in the house, left the note and whatever happened after that, She woke up, She made noise? They took her down to the depths of the house to a quiet place rather than outside where if she made noise she would draw attention, they took her down and did what they did and killed her and left her and ran, leaving the note behind.

 

[SweetT]

I honestly find it very hard to believe that BR had a thing to do with all of this, and just because he seems like a good scapegoat, I would not blame an innocent child of anything like this. I think if he did something to JB and it was an accident no matter how bad it looked that the parentals would have called 911. I have children and they have hurt each other as children do..no matter what it was I would have called 911. I just dont buy that they did all this horrendous stuff to their daughter to cover their sons butt. That is my opinion.
I also don't find it odd that they whisked him out of that house, I would have probably gotten my other children out of a place like that too, they would not need to see or hear all of this grusome detail about their dead sister. Not stuff that a child should hear or be around. I would however make my child available for questioning to LE.

 

[2 percent]

I honestly find it very hard to believe that BR had a thing to do with all of this, and just because he seems like a good scapegoat, I would not blame an innocent child of anything like this. I think if he did something to JB and it was an accident no matter how bad it looked that the parentals would have called 911. I have children and they have hurt each other as children do..no matter what it was I would have called 911. I just dont buy that they did all this horrendous stuff to their daughter to cover their sons butt. That is my opinion.
I also don't find it odd that they whisked him out of that house, I would have probably gotten my other children out of a place like that too, they would not need to see or hear all of this grusome detail about their dead sister. Not stuff that a child should hear or be around. I would however make my child available for questioning to LE.

I don't think it was Burke either for many of the reasons you state.
If I were in the same situation I would not only let law enforcement question them, I would insist on a psychiatrist sit in or observe. I have a brother who is 4 years older than me, a similar age difference between JB and Burke. When I was 5 he was my protector and my confidante. Yes, I had friends but at that age I spent more time with my family and he knew what was going on with me. If nothing else I would have encouraged Burke to talk about things JB had been talking about or experiencing lately...especially given the sexual assault evidence.

 

[SweetT]

I don't think it was Burke either for many of the reasons you state.
If I were in the same situation I would not only let law enforcement question them, I would insist on a psychiatrist sit in or observe. I have a brother who is 4 years older than me, a similar age difference between JB and Burke. When I was 5 he was my protector and my confidante. Yes, I had friends but at that age I spent more time with my family and he knew what was going on with me. If nothing else I would have encouraged Burke to talk about things JB had been talking about or experiencing lately...especially given the sexual assault evidence.

I do agree with that. Sometimes a sibling will know more about a child than the parents do. My oldest daughter accidentally broke my middle childs collar bone, but it was an accident so I know that accidents can happen. Children argue and fight and do all kinds of stupid things, thats why they are children.
I would also let my child talk with LE, because sometimes they will see or hear something that could be relevant to the case. Just because they are children doesn't mean they don't notice or see things. I wonder if he did see or hear something and later told his parents.

 

[Chelly]

Maybe the plan was to put her in the Samsonite suitcase?People knew they were prepared for a trip so a suitcase wouldn't have looked suspicious?

Years ago, placing JB's body in the Samsonite had been my consideration for getting her out of the house and to a dump site. I learned here at WS that she probably wouldn't fit. Attempting to get the body into the suitcase involved considerable folding, bending, maybe breaking of limbs.

 

[SweetT]

Years ago, placing JB's body in the Samsonite had been my consideration for getting her out of the house and to a dump site. I learned here at WS that she probably wouldn't fit. Attempting to get the body into the suitcase involved considerable folding, bending, maybe breaking of limbs.

Right, because by then Rigor mortis had already set in Not a good option at that point at all.

 

[Nom de plume]

Right, because by then Rigor mortis had already set in Not a good option at that point at all.

Not really possible after rigor set in, but very possible if they would have tried before rigor. She only weighed 40lbs, and was small for her age.

 

[Chelly]

Not really possible after rigor set in, but very possible if they would have tried before rigor. She only weighed 40lbs, and was small for her age.

I recall a graphic was posted on WS quite some time ago showing dimensions of that particular suitcase, the measurements of JB, and how the body would have been folded up to get it into the suitcase.

 

[LinasK]

I agree with the theory that JR and PR could have acted together to protect BR. However, the thing that casts the most doubt for me in the BDI theory is that he was 9. To be using a garrote to molest his little sister is a bit of a stretch. It's possible, but a stretch.

If he was sexually sophisticated enough to be doing such a thing , what that means to me is that someone had exposed him to this and he too had probably been molested.

That's why I think it was John who did the molesting. Not sure if it was him or Patsy who struck the fatal blow, but either way she stood by him.

 

[DeeDee249]

Not really possible after rigor set in, but very possible if they would have tried before rigor. She only weighed 40lbs, and was small for her age.

That didn't happen either. There was only ONE livor mortis pattern. Had they tried to manipulate her body after death, other livor patterns would be present. And by the time livor was fixed (non-blanching) rigor would have set in.

 

[otg]

I honestly find it very hard to believe that BR had a thing to do with all of this, and just because he seems like a good scapegoat, I would not blame an innocent child of anything like this. I think if he did something to JB and it was an accident no matter how bad it looked that the parentals would have called 911. I have children and they have hurt each other as children do..no matter what it was I would have called 911. I just dont buy that they did all this horrendous stuff to their daughter to cover their sons butt. That is my opinion.
I also don't find it odd that they whisked him out of that house, I would have probably gotten my other children out of a place like that too, they would not need to see or hear all of this grusome detail about their dead sister. Not stuff that a child should hear or be around.

Greetings, SweetT.

Only problem with the bolded part is that at the time BR was whisked out of the house, there was no dead sister -- there was a kidnapped sister. Had there actually been a kidnapping (as was the ruse) of a Ramsey child, where would the remaining child be safer? At a friend's house... or in a house full of cops, victim advocates, the priest, and every friend you could think of to invite over (except for one family)?

Now OTOH, if the Ramseys knew what was eventually going to be found...

I would however make my child available for questioning to LE.

But instead, the Ramseys said later they were infuriated because they found out that a cop had asked BR some questions at the Whites' house -- not as a suspect mind you, but to see if they could get any information that would help them find out who had kidnapped his sister during the night.