The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[Ames]

DD can you expand on the blood on the pink nightie? I thought this was only conjecture of people who could also see dolls etc in the picture Uk posted. Is there a source for it?

Now about the longjohns & gap top -v- pyjamas, I see what you mean, but there are men on this forum and they have no difficulty in calling the clothing what they are rather than just saying 'pyjamas'. By the same token, it's very important that we get the size of the panties correct also, if only because RDI use it as part of their 'totallity of evidence'. If the panties were size 12 for a 9-10 year old, that is completely different to a pair that is made to fit a 12 - 14 year old girl? This keeps being brought up, but has morphed from size 12's to a size suitable for 12-14 year olds, which is incorrect, regardless of the gender of the person who reported it and regardless of whether it was reported here or in a warrant. I brought up the pyjamas just to illistrate that the panty size was also incorrect.

Oh my gosh, how many times do I have to keep posting this? The size panties that JB was found wearing WAS 12/14. That is what is on the tag....NOBODY has ever said that she was found wearing a size 12. There IS a difference. 12/14...means that it can fit girls sizes 12, 13 and 14. Panties...well, at least the ones that I have ever seen...do not come in single sizes (4,6,8,etc) Maybe in some brands they do...but not the ones from Bloomingdales...and not the ones that my 9 year old wears.

 

[txsvicki]

Couldn't the lack of blood stains on the long johns also support an intruder if they were removed, then the assault happened on the blanket which got stained with blood? JonBenet was wiped down, so if an intruder then put the panties and longjohns back on very near death there might not have been enough bleeding to continue to stain through to the longjohns. But, you'd think that the back of the longjohns might have gotten stained from the spot on the blanket, depending on where the stain was.

 

[Bobbarita]

Found a link to information on the clothing she was wearing.
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682456/Clothing

 

[Steely]

Found a link to information on the clothing she was wearing.
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682456/Clothing

Thank you, Bobbarita!

"The decedent is clothed in a long sleeved white knit collarless shirt, the mid anterior chest area of which contains an embroidered silver star decorated with silver sequins."

 

[Bobbarita]

Your welcome, Steely.

 

[slug]

the sizes of the underware confuses me because here in the uk kids underware comes in ages ie age 4-5 age 9-10 etc, so when i first read in size 12 i thought they must be very large.
let me try and get something straight a girl JBR age would normally wear about size 8 do sizes vary greatly from one store to another or are all size 8 the same no matter where they are purchased?

 

[claudicici]

all the panties found in the Ramsey house were size 4/6,there were no sizes 8 so that's not the size she was wearing even though PR claimed that to be her size.
my daughter's underwear would always fit with her age even though regular clothes I would by a size larger than her age.

 

[Ames]

all the panties found in the Ramsey house were size 4/6,there were no sizes 8 so that's not the size she was wearing even though PR claimed that to be her size.
my daughter's underwear would always fit with her age even though regular clothes I would by a size larger than her age.

Right...if anything, panties are made a little smaller. For example...my 9 year old can still wear size 6-8 panties. I don't believe for one second that those 4/6 were too small for JB. My daughter...was the same size as JB at that age, and could wear that size at the age of 6. I think that it also depends on if the child is average size or not.

 

[Ames]

the sizes of the underware confuses me because here in the uk kids underware comes in ages ie age 4-5 age 9-10 etc, so when i first read in size 12 i thought they must be very large.
let me try and get something straight a girl JBR age would normally wear about size 8 do sizes vary greatly from one store to another or are all size 8 the same no matter where they are purchased?

I think that this is the reason that the IDI's not from this country are confused about it as well. Some of them believe that when we say that she was found wearing size 12/14...that we just can't make our mind up. And some of them keep saying that she was found wearing size 12. It was 12/14...and that is exactly what is printed on the tag, and/or the package.

 

[Agatha_C]

For most of us, that use the greatest tool in our bag>> Common sense. We understand that the thought of size 12/14 panties on a 6 y/o is ludicrous. In fact its so far out of the box, I dont think, it was ever in the box.... Yet IDI, clings to the argument as if those big bloomers are the parachute that will keep them from plummeting to earth and or reality....

To admit that they even exist is too admit PR lied and that they can never do. Then they would have to admit, if she lied once, than she most likely lied about other things. Even worse, it makes her look as guilty as she was. We all know, the lies are all IDI really has to cling too, that and the words of the Crawfish Queen, ML.

I'm including two links on and about the Rs polygraphs and those involvoled with that process. I truly enjoyed the first link and always find loads of info on the second.

A blast from the past for some of you...

A refresher for those that have forgotten...

Homework for those that need it (Me)...lol...

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/polygraph/

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-ramseypolygraph.htm

 

[KariKae]

When you hear Patsy explain how the panties got into JonBenet's drawer, it sounds reasonable to me. But when you take the explanation in conjunction with all of the other inconsistencies, it is not reasonable.

And on the pajamas - Long johns with a shirt look very similar to the snug fit pajamas a lot of kids wear. Especially if a man were making the classification, I would call what JBR was wearing pajamas.

 

[Ames]

When you hear Patsy explain how the panties got into JonBenet's drawer, it sounds reasonable to me. But when you take the explanation in conjunction with all of the other inconsistencies, it is not reasonable.

And on the pajamas - Long johns with a shirt look very similar to the snug fit pajamas a lot of kids wear. Especially if a man were making the classification, I would call what JBR was wearing pajamas.

Except for the fact that no size 12/14's were found in her drawer by investigators....

My daughter had a couple of pair of PJ's that were actually long john material...the shirt and pants...they came in a set.

 

[SunnieRN]

What I really find interesting is that Patsy lied about this. Agatha, you were correct when you said this is the actual issue! Why didn't they just leave the rest of the package near JonBenet, partially wrapped, which would have made it seem like another hit toward establishing the idi theory. Just partially unwrap all the packages in the wine cellar. Why make them disappear, while saying they were in JonBenets drawer? Why lie about the size of the 15 pair of undies in her drawer? bPD had them. Her lie was obviously a lie.

Then, several years later, ok, here you go, here is the rest of the undies, still in their original package, by the way, that I said was in JonBenets drawer. What the heck?!

I like Dave's theory of why they turned in the rest of the package, however, I wonder if Patsy knew her cancer was back and that it was going to kill her, so she told John it should be turned in, trying to lead BPD to re consider who the killer really was.

This case is more bizarre and has more twists and turns than a roller coaster!!

 

[UKGuy]

What I really find interesting is that Patsy lied about this. Agatha, you were correct when you said this is the actual issue! Why didn't they just leave the rest of the package near JonBenet, partially wrapped, which would have made it seem like another hit toward establishing the idi theory. Just partially unwrap all the packages in the wine cellar. Why make them disappear, while saying they were in JonBenets drawer? Why lie about the size of the 15 pair of undies in her drawer? bPD had them. Her lie was obviously a lie.

Then, several years later, ok, here you go, here is the rest of the undies, still in their original package, by the way, that I said was in JonBenets drawer. What the heck?!

I like Dave's theory of why they turned in the rest of the package, however, I wonder if Patsy knew her cancer was back and that it was going to kill her, so she told John it should be turned in, trying to lead BPD to re consider who the killer really was.

This case is more bizarre and has more twists and turns than a roller coaster!!

SunnieRN,

I reckon Patsy was lying for someone else, not herself. Otherwise she would have had most of it worked out, and she would never have said I just put them in her drawer etc.

She was covering for someone elses staging this is what suggests collusion between John and Patsy.

But was it John or Burke she was shielding? Can you imagine it, her baby is dead at the hands of someone she knows, and yet she takes part in a charade .


.

 

[Ames]

What I really find interesting is that Patsy lied about this. Agatha, you were correct when you said this is the actual issue! Why didn't they just leave the rest of the package near JonBenet, partially wrapped, which would have made it seem like another hit toward establishing the idi theory. Just partially unwrap all the packages in the wine cellar. Why make them disappear, while saying they were in JonBenets drawer? Why lie about the size of the 15 pair of undies in her drawer? bPD had them. Her lie was obviously a lie.

Then, several years later, ok, here you go, here is the rest of the undies, still in their original package, by the way, that I said was in JonBenets drawer. What the heck?!

I like Dave's theory of why they turned in the rest of the package, however, I wonder if Patsy knew her cancer was back and that it was going to kill her, so she told John it should be turned in, trying to lead BPD to re consider who the killer really was.

This case is more bizarre and has more twists and turns than a roller coaster!!

Exactly!! A real "intruder" would have just left the package out in the WC beside of her body. Okay...they just vanish...and then they reappear later, and are handed over. This screams parental involvement...and NO intruder. (IDI's will argue that the "intruder" took the remaining panties as souveneirs....and that is why they were not found in the Ramsey home, after the murder. Trouble with that is...how did the Ramsey's end up with them?? So, that theory will not fly...) Those panties were hidden from investigators all along...by the Ramseys. They probably turned them over just because the fact that if they DIDN'T turn over the remaining package...it would look just a little bit suspicious. They were trying to make it look as if they were actually trying to HELP the police...and aid in the investigation. (HA...yeah, right).

 

[SunnieRN]

It was years later when they turned them in. There was no reason to at that time, so, did Patsy talk John into turning them in? John talk Patsy into it? Why didn't their law team stop it? What were they trying to accomplish?

I would really like to know when Patsy found out about her cancer. This has been on my mind now for hours. The implication for turning in the undies is much more negative than if they had never showed up!

 

[Steely]

Maybe JR found them in his golf bag.

 

[BBB167893]

I like Dave's theory of why they turned in the rest of the package,

Thanks, Sunnie. I hope that when I told Murri that, she didn't think I was giving HER "the finger," but that the Rs were giving the investigators "the finger."

And that certainly fits with everything else they were doing. Patsy even said that year, "if you think I did it, just have a trial and get it over with." It's not a big leap to interpret that as telling the cops and Kane, "F you!"

however, I wonder if Patsy knew her cancer was back and that it was going to kill her, so she told John it should be turned in, trying to lead BPD to re consider who the killer really was.

Yeah, didn't her cancer come back right around that time?

This case is more bizarre and has more twists and turns than a roller coaster!!

You got that right.

 

[Agatha_C]

There was a poster here once and now he's on another board.... BrotherMoon...

Let me first say, I liked BrotherMoon. I know he could be aggravating to most. I actually understood him and found so much humor in his posts, that I still go back and read them...

He once said>>> "Its all in their words." and I agree.

 

[BBB167893]

Just to get off subject for a second here, folks: I realize that things tend to get pretty emotional around here whenever the holiday season comes around, for obvious reasons. But for the sake of some of our friends here, I'm hoping that it's all out of our systems now and that we can get back to discussion. So as a favor to me, let's try to limit the snarkiness, and yes, even the smiley wars, okay?