The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[MurriFlower]

http://books.google.com/books?id=da...=onepage&q=jonbenet oversized panties&f=false

Here's another.

LOL. What about Boulder newspapers, TV news programmes, you know, credible mainstream media sources.

 

[txsvicki]

Actually its...4/6, 6/8, 8/10,10/12, 12/14......SOOO...if 4/6's were the only ones found in her underwear drawer.....then really the 12/14's were FOUR sizes too big, and not just one.

Are you positive that panties run in these sizes? Little girls clothing is 2-4, 6-8, 10-12, and 14-16. I still say that fourteen, fifteen years ago panties could be bought in all sizes 4, 5, 6, whatever, and can remember being annoyed when they combined sizes or started labeling them as s,m,l.

 

[Ames]

my bold.

This is a websitesite that appears to have been set up by a forum poster known as "MissMarple" which regularly quotes posters on various forums as a source, so it's just basically a forum regurgitated. It is NOT a "mainstream media source"

I have to agree with you MF. That is basically the only link that I could find, except for www.acandyrose.com , the rest were ...as you said...just posters comments from different boards. I just go by the fact that the size 12/14 Bloomies were mentioned in the interview with Patsy....and the fact that Patsy admitted to buying size 12/14 Bloomies, and the fact that the size 12/14 Bloomies pack was missing...and the fact that the Ramsey's turned them in years later, minus the Wednesday pair, (the ones that JB was wearing when her body was found). I do not believe that Patsy was being lied to about the size of the undies, during the interview.

 

[Ames]

Are you positive that panties run in these sizes? Little girls clothing is 2-4, 6-8, 10-12, and 14-16.

Yes, I have a 9 year old daughter...and that is the way that hers run. I will check tomorrow, since she is asleep right now...by looking in her drawer to find out what brand they are. Actually Little girls and boys clothing run like this...2, 2T, 3, 3T, 4-6, etc. I have actually seen the T's even go up to 5T, believe it or not. Target has them...they are made for smaller size 5, children. My daughter used to wear that size...she was..and still is...small for her age.

 

[MurriFlower]

Are you positive that panties run in these sizes? Little girls clothing is 2-4, 6-8, 10-12, and 14-16. I still say that fourteen, fifteen years ago panties could be bought in all sizes 4, 5, 6, whatever, and can remember being annoyed when they combined sizes or started labeling them as s,m,l.

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

 

[claudicici]

Those are not panty sizes those are clothes sizes,Murry.

 

[Agatha_C]

my bold.

This is a website that appears to have been set up by a forum poster known as "MissMarple" which regularly quotes posters on various forums as a source, so it's just basically a forum regurgitated. It is NOT a "mainstream media source"

Murri,

Perhaps you didnt know this, but MissMarple, is IDI. Not only that, but she is really a he, with Miss Marple, being one of his hats....

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

Bloomingdale Size Chart: Size 12: For an 84-pound child. The actual measurements of the child are going to be more accurate fit-wise than the average age.

 

[SunnieRN]

MF, no matter what anyone who lives and buys clothing in the US, including Patsy Ramsey, who admitted buying them for her niece, you insist on cut and pasting an outerwear chart from Bloomingdales that is current.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish, since according to your posts Patsy NEVER lies. Patsy stated to BPD on several occasions during her interview that the panties were too large. She also lied about the size panties in JonBenets drawer.

What is the on going issue? Patsy stated the sizes. You can't change what Patsy said. Not according to your previous posts. Patsy never lied. Per you.

 

[MurriFlower]

Those are not panty sizes those are clothes sizes,Murry.

This is the same size chart for all Bloomingdales girls clothes (underwear included).

 

[SunnieRN]

MF, this is a current sizing chart. Please refer to previous posts where Patsy talks about JonBenet, her size underwear and the size she bought Jenny.

Then, if you find something from 1996 that refutes what Patsy said, post it.

 

[claudicici]

Also underwear is never included in "apparel",underwear sizes are always different.
The current Bloomingdale website has a chart for adult intimates but not for children.
Underwear is not now and never has been sized the same as "apparel"

 

[MurriFlower]

Also underwear is never included in "apparel",underwear sizes are always different.
The current Bloomingdale website has a chart for adult intimates but not for children.
Underwear is not now and never has been sized the same as "apparel"

All I can find is the Kids Apparel chart, which I take it is the size of ALL clothing, outer and underwear, but if you can refute this with another Bloomingdales size chart specifically for underwear, please do so.

 

[MurriFlower]

MF, this is a current sizing chart. Please refer to previous posts where Patsy talks about JonBenet, her size underwear and the size she bought Jenny.

Then, if you find something from 1996 that refutes what Patsy said, post it.

No need. This agrees with what PR said. If she bought size 12 then it was probably too small for Jenny, so that could be why she gave them to JBR.

If you can find an underwear chart from Bloomingdales that refutes these sizes, (either from now or 1996) then please post it.

 

[UKGuy]

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

MurriFlower,

credible mainstream media source

Will the National Enquirer do?


RDI base this aspect of the case on the verbatim account offered by Patsy in her interviews. not on any size differential.

Patsy stated she purchased those size-12's:

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Well, let's start
19 with what - I will make it very simple for
20 you, Mrs. Ramsey. What information are you
21 in possession of or what do you know about
22 the underwear that your daughter was wearing
23 at the time she was found murdered?
24 A. I have heard that she had on a
25 pair of Bloomi's that said Wednesday on them.
0078
1 Q. The underwear that she was
2 wearing, that is Bloomi's panties, do you
3 know where they come from as far as what
4 store?
5 A. Bloomingdales in New York.
6 Q. Who purchased those?
7 A. I did.

First account offered by Patsy suggests she purchased the size-12's for JonBenet, then she backtracks, becomes uncertain, and thinks just one pack of underwear was purchased for Jenny Davis.

2 Q. Which of those two trips did you
3 purchase the Bloomi's?
4 A. The first trip.
5 Q. Was it something that was selected
6 by JonBenet?
7 A. I believe so.
8 Q. Was it your intention, when you
9 purchased those, for those to be for her,
10 not for some third party as a gift?
11 A. I bought some things that were
12 gifts and some things for her. So I
13 don't --
14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is
15 your best recollection that the purchase of
16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the
17 week, was something that you bought for her,
18 whether it was just I am buying underwear
19 for my kids or these are special, here's a
20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your
21 intention that she would wear those?
22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my
0081
1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two.
15 Q. Do you remember what size they
16 were?
17 A. Not exactly.

So Patsy backtracks realizing she has made a mistake and invokes a loss of memory both on underwear size and whether there were two or one pack purchased.

Questioned further Patsy starts to embellish her account and to lie outright, all bolded.
Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

15 THE WITNESS: They were just in
16 her panty drawer, so I don't, you know, I
17 don't pay attention. I mean, I just put all
18 of her clean panties in a drawer and she can
19 help herself to whatever is in there.
20 MS. HARMER: I guess I am not
21 clear on, you bought the panties to give to
22 Jenny.
23 THE WITNESS: Right.
24 MS. HARMER: And they ended up in
25 JonBenet's bathroom?
0087
1 A. Right.
2 Q. (By Ms. Harmer) Was there - I'm
3 sorry. Do you recall making a decision then
4 not to give them to Jenny or did JonBenet
5 express an interest in them; therefore, you
6 didn't give them to Jenny? How did that --
7 A. I can't say for sure. I mean, I
8 think I bought them with the intention of
9 sending them in a package of Christmas things
10 to Atlanta. Obviously I didn't get that
11 together, so I just put them in her, her
12 panty drawer. So they were free game.
13 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) At the time,
14 how old was Jenny?
15 A. I don't know. Probably -- I
16 don't know. She is older than JonBenet, but
17 I don't know exactly how old she was.
18 Q. Would these panties, size wise, be
19 more appropriate for -- is she an older
20 girl?
21 A. Yes.

Finally her interviewers inform her of the status of underwear recovered from JonBenet's underwear drawer:

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

1 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Okay. Were you
2 aware that these were the size of panties
3 that she was wearing, and this has been
4 publicized, it is out in the open, that they
5 were size 12 to 14? Were you aware of
6 that?
7 A. I have become aware of that, yes.
8 Q. And how did you become aware of
9 that?
10 A. Something I read, I am sure.
11 Q. And I will just state a fact
12 here. I mean, there were 15 pair of panties
13 taken out of, by the police, out of
14 JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is
15 that where she kept -
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. -- where you were describing that
18 they were just put in that drawer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?

RDI cognoscenti should note that if the above account were true then either 14 pairs of size-12 bloomingdales should have been discovered in JonBenet's underwear drawer or 7 pairs of size-12 bloomingdales. Neither case was substantiated.

This is what is important, not any size differential, its the non-existence of the said purchased bloomingdale underwear.


So MurriFlower you really must stick to finding some evidence for your own preferred theory.

We all note a distinct lack of evidence for any IDI theory, and despite repeated requests you and your virtual sidekick have yet to furnish this board with any new evidence at all.

We are not in the business of inventorying our evidence to you for all our RDI theories. Thats something we do, so stop playing semantic games over underwear sizes, or the truthfulness of interviewers and concentrate on what Patsy said:

e.g. she lied outright and was caught out!

.

 

[Toltec]

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

QUOTE]

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY! Patsy bought size 12 panties for her 12 year-old niece!!!

JonBenet had size 4 (old) and 6 (new) panties...Size 6 for a 6-year-old!

 

[Ames]

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

They were sized 12/14...not just 12...that were found on her. That is a clothing size chart...Panties do not come in sizes 4/5,6/7,8, 10/12, 14/16

The panties she was wearing was FOUR sizes too large for her. Believe what you want...end of story.

 

[Ames]

Bloomingdales own size chart. Notice what is says down the bottom.

Please Note: some of our brand manufacturer's sizing differs from our exclusive Bloomingdales's sizing.

So, unless someone can come up with a credible mainstream media source for Bloomingdales changing the dimensions of their size 12 clothing lines between 1996 and now, we can assume that IF they were size 12, they were designed to fit a 9-10 year old not a 12-14 year old.

QUOTE]

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY! Patsy bought size 12 panties for her 12 year-old niece!!!

JonBenet had size 4 (old) and 6 (new) panties...Size 6 for a 6-year-old!

Size 12/14...which makes them even bigger than a regular ole size 12!!!!!

 

[Ames]

MurriFlower,


Will the National Enquirer do?


RDI base this aspect of the case on the verbatim account offered by Patsy in her interviews. not on any size differential.

Patsy stated she purchased those size-12's:

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt


First account offered by Patsy suggests she purchased the size-12's for JonBenet, then she backtracks, becomes uncertain, and thinks just one pack of underwear was purchased for Jenny Davis.

So Patsy backtracks realizing she has made a mistake and invokes a loss of memory both on underwear size and whether there were two or one pack purchased.

Questioned further Patsy starts to embellish her account and to lie outright, all bolded.
Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt


Finally her interviewers inform her of the status of underwear recovered from JonBenet's underwear drawer:

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt



RDI cognoscenti should note that if the above account were true then either 14 pairs of size-12 bloomingdales should have been discovered in JonBenet's underwear drawer or 7 pairs of size-12 bloomingdales. Neither case was substantiated.

This is what is important, not any size differential, its the non-existence of the said purchased bloomingdale underwear.


So MurriFlower you really must stick to finding some evidence for your own preferred theory.

We all note a distinct lack of evidence for any IDI theory, and despite repeated requests you and your virtual sidekick have yet to furnish this board with any new evidence at all.

We are not in the business of inventorying our evidence to you for all our RDI theories. Thats something we do, so stop playing semantic games over underwear sizes, or the truthfulness of interviewers and concentrate on what Patsy said:

e.g. she lied outright and was caught out!

.

I have no reason to doubt the interviewer...saying those panties found on her were 12/14. Patsy admitted to buying that size....it's not like she denied it....maybe then I could see where Holdon and Murri are coming from...as far as the panties go. Frankly I think that they just look for things to sidetrack us off of the main focus of this board. Like you said...is doesn't matter the size (even though they were very large on her..), just the fact that Patsy lied about them....and the WHOLE pack was missing...and then years later, the Rams turned them over...missing a pair....the same pair that JB was found wearing when her body was found. (I think that they turned them over, because they knew that it made them look more suspicious if they didn't.)

 

[Agatha_C]

No need. This agrees with what PR said. If she bought size 12 then it was probably too small for Jenny, so that could be why she gave them to JBR.

If you can find an underwear chart from Bloomingdales that refutes these sizes, (either from now or 1996) then please post it.

But thats not what PR said Murri. She didnt say I bought those panties and they didnt fit my niece, so I gave them to Jonbenet. Besides how would she have known if the undies didnt fit her niece, as they didnt live near each other, so how would PR have known if the undies fit or not?

Why were there no other size 12/14 found in the house during the collection of evidence? PR and PP, made costumes and such for JBR, they knew exactly what size she wore. I dont see, PR letting JB wear those big bloomers under her costumes as they would have hung out the legs and created bunching and thats not how you win pageants. Which leads too, PR knowing exactly what size little girls wear, she bought bathing suits for her child for both the lake and competition, everything fit her well on the stage and in family pictures, as far as we can see. Looking at that, you have to wonder at one pair of panties and why the lie?