The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[Tortoise]

I think it is the same. As you don't find PR's call for help believable, I don't find BR's supposed grief believable at all.



As I answered above, his lack of sad emotions and abundance of happy ones is consistent with him being the assailant among many other things.



I didn't base this conclusion based on interviews alone. His lack of emotion at his sister's funeral and the morning she "went missing" comes to mind as well. Nowhere have I ever read he was crying at either of these events, unless it's in PW's book which I will not be reading. (Thank you, BoldBear.)


There's plenty of evidence to read up on in these threads that point to BR's involvement. Kolar's book is a great start, too. BR's voice on the 9-1-1 call, feces smearing, fingerprints on glass and bowl of pineapple, and train tracks come to mind.

As I've said before, my children didn't cry immediately after their dad died either, they went to play. Nor at his funeral. It took them months and years to process their private emotions and grief.You have no idea how he reacted in his life, from those clips.

He said he cried, on Dr Phil. But even if he hadn't said that, it wouldn't mean he didn't feel grief or cry.

Thanks, I've read prolifically on the case. Nothing points to his involvement, it's all speculation.

So what if he spoke on the 911 call. "What did you find?" He knew they were looking for JBR when they went into his room and he heard they'd found something they were telling the call handler about - the ransom note. Not surprising he was awake with all that commotion.

There is no evidence he was still feces smearing. That occurred when Patsy had cancer.

Yep, he had a glass of tea and touched a bowl. It doesn't point to murder. Particularly not since there was a time delay between JBR eating pineapple and her death. Train tracks were on the floor. Anyone could have used them in staging a brutal murder scene.

 

[UKGuy]

I haven't seen an opening at the front or white lining in any photo.

Tortoise
OK, lets consider the matter closed.

.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz,
Yes, there was a knife found down there, BR's knife I believe, and JonBenet was whacked on the head.

So what BR is saying in the interview is consistent with knowledge of her homicide.

Somebody has pointed out some details were reported in the local press or TV?

.

Yes, UKGuy - I agree that it is consistent with knowledge of her homicide. To my understanding, nothing about the knife being found down the hall on a countertop was known by anyone except BPD for many weeks after this interview of Burke at the Child Advocacy Center in Niwot.

 

[UKGuy]

That's how I see it too and I have watched it many times.

The "flaunting" wasn't the only bad thing he said. I wish I had bookmarked PL's show transcripts but he was asked about the funeral and what he remembered about it and he said, "The casket was small and I think one of her eyes was a little bit, like, droopy." (To paraphrase).

Seriously??? Your sister is dead and that's what you remember? He made other little digs which told me he absolutely seethed with hate for her. In no way did he ever build her up. Even in death he tore her down when she can't defend herself. Utter piece of ****.

JMO ofc.

Ambitioned,
I tend to agree with Tortoise here, I do not see his behavior on Dr Phil as determining any guilt on his part.

Yet without a shadow of doubt, some of the stuff he came out with, e.g. flaunting , droopy eye, etc. His shifting eyes, looking down then away then back with a beaming smile, staring at the screen in silence during the pineapple section, all suggest strongly a disconnect between Burke and JonBenet.

Given the opportunity on Dr Phil to demonstrate how he much cared for and loved JonBenet, well he blew it.

So much so Dr Phil had to film the extra episode.

.

 

[kanzz]

As I've said before, my children didn't cry immediately after their dad died either, they went to play. Nor at his funeral. It took them months and years to process their private emotions and grief.You have no idea how he reacted in his life, from those clips.

He said he cried, on Dr Phil. But even if he hadn't said that, it wouldn't mean he didn't feel grief or cry.

Thanks, I've read prolifically on the case. Nothing points to his involvement, it's all speculation.

So what if he spoke on the 911 call. "What did you find?" He knew they were looking for JBR when they went into his room and he heard they'd found something they were telling the call handler about - the ransom note. Not surprising he was awake with all that commotion.

There is no evidence he was still feces smearing. That occurred when Patsy had cancer.

Yep, he had a glass of tea and touched a bowl. It doesn't point to murder. Particularly not since there was a time delay between JBR eating pineapple and her death. Train tracks were on the floor. Anyone could have used them in staging a brutal murder scene.

There is a huge difference between a death in the family (especially of an elder) and the brutal murder of a child. This is the stuff of any kid's nightmares. It's the Boogie Man!
BPD found feces on a box of candy on JonBenet's bedside table.

 

[Tortoise]

That's how I see it too and I have watched it many times.

The "flaunting" wasn't the only bad thing he said. I wish I had bookmarked PL's show transcripts but he was asked about the funeral and what he remembered about it and he said, "The casket was small and I think one of her eyes was a little bit, like, droopy." (To paraphrase).

Seriously??? Your sister is dead and that's what you remember? He made other little digs which told me he absolutely seethed with hate for her. In no way did he ever build her up. Even in death he tore her down when she can't defend herself. Utter piece of ****.

JMO ofc.

Link to the Dr Phil transcripts, credit to PositiveLight

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iews-Burke-Ramsey-(9-12-amp-9-13-2016)/page74

 

[UKGuy]

kanzz,
There is so much circumstantial evidence pointing to BR, even the GJ seem to agree?

I would love someone on the GJ to come forward and outline why they charged the parents as they did, i.e. no homicide charges for either parent?

In other cases GJ members years later are cited on TV Crime shows, so I live in hope.


.

 

[OliviaG1996]

As I've said before, my children didn't cry immediately after their dad died either, they went to play. Nor at his funeral. It took them months and years to process their private emotions and grief.You have no idea how he reacted in his life, from those clips.

I'm truly sorry about your husband.

He said he cried, on Dr Phil. But even if he hadn't said that, it wouldn't mean he didn't feel grief or cry.

Thanks, I've read prolifically on the case. Nothing points to his involvement, it's all speculation.

That's your opinion.

So what if he spoke on the 911 call. "What did you find?" He knew they were looking for JBR when they went into his room and he heard they'd found something they were telling the call handler about - the ransom note. Not surprising he was awake with all that commotion.

It's significant because his parents told police when they arrived that BR was asleep. Why not let him be questioned? If BR knew his parents killed his sister, why would he feel safe in his own home, as he told Dr. Bernhard?

There is no evidence he was still feces smearing. That occurred when Patsy had cancer.

So JBR smeared her own feces on her Christmas chocolate box and defecated on pajama pants that were too big for her? I find that hard to believe.

Yep, he had a glass of tea and touched a bowl. It doesn't point to murder. Particularly not since there was a time delay between JBR eating pineapple and her death. Train tracks were on the floor. Anyone could have used them in staging a brutal murder scene.

It points to BR being with JBR after returning home from the Whites. A short time afterwards, (there was no significant time delay as you suggest) JBR ends up dead and the bowl and glass are not cleaned up. Coincidence?

 

[Ambitioned]

Ambitioned,
I tend to agree with Tortoise here, I do not see his behavior on Dr Phil as determining any guilt on his part.

Yet without a shadow of doubt, some of the stuff he came out with, e.g. flaunting , droopy eye, etc. His shifting eyes, looking down then away then back with a beaming smile, staring at the screen in silence during the pineapple section, all suggest strongly a disconnect between Burke and JonBenet.

Given the opportunity on Dr Phil to demonstrate how he much cared for and loved JonBenet, well he blew it.

So much so Dr Phil had to film the extra episode.

.

Exactly. All the little behavior signs were disturbing. Even Jim Fitzgerald noticed the facial tics and hand movements during certain answers.

 

[Tortoise]

There is a huge difference between a death in the family (especially of an elder) and the brutal murder of a child. This is the stuff of any kid's nightmares. It's the Boogie Man!
BPD found feces on a box of candy on JonBenet's bedside table.

And death by murder should make his grief more obvious?

Yes I know about the feces. Do you have a source that says he did it? And if he did it, a source that links it to her death and excludes other family members from it that night?

 

[UKGuy]

Remember BR said JonBenet walked into the house. Also JonBenet's hair had been dressed in hair-ties, decorating two pony tails, evidence she was awake all along, or post mortem staging, you decide.

.

 

[kanzz]

If someone takes a knife and lunges forwards with it, no I don't interpret that as a bashing over the head.

Particularly not when followed up with a different implement that is used for bashing.

This is my transcription of the interview -

BR:-"I think that someone took her very quietly and tiptoed down the basement and he took a knife out and he went whoops like that. DrB:- Do you think that's how she died? BR:- And maybe a hammer, hit her in the head with it."

BBM

Lunges forward?

I turned off the sound and changed the settings to slow-motion. I didn't see any lunging. I saw an overhand motion. Twice.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz,
There is so much circumstantial evidence pointing to BR, even the GJ seem to agree?

I would love someone on the GJ to come forward and outline why they charged the parents as they did, i.e. no homicide charges for either parent?

In other cases GJ members years later are cited on TV Crime shows, so I live in hope.


.

Right you are! Maybe some day somebody with nothing left to lose will step up. I know I would if I had a terminal illness and I knew it wouldn't ever come back to bite my family in any way.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm truly sorry about your husband.



That's your opinion.



It's significant because his parents told police when they arrived that BR was asleep. Why not let him be questioned? If BR knew his parents killed his sister, why would he feel safe in his own home, as he told Dr. Bernhard?



So JBR smeared her own feces on her Christmas chocolate box and defecated on pajama pants that were too big for her? I find that hard to believe.



It points to BR being with JBR after returning home from the Whites. A short time afterwards, (there was no significant time delay as you suggest) JBR ends up dead and the bowl and glass are not cleaned up. Coincidence?

Thank you for your condolences.

The parents lying about him being asleep shows them as liars, not him. I have no reason to think he knew they killed her. I think they duped him too.

We don't have the size of the pyjama pants, but even if they were Burke's and JonBenet had not been wearing them, they could have been left there from the day before, not that night. We don't know whether it was a smear or bigger, or how it got there. We do know that JBR had inside out pants that were soiled on her bathroom floor too, and an unflushed toilet. That sounds like she had an accident.

There was a time delay of upwards of 30 minutes, for pineapple to be in her intestines. Parents still in their daywear, so not in bed.

The bowl was clearly not seen as important to clean up. They probably didn't realise her intestines would be opened, when they said she was asleep.

 

[Tortoise]

BBM

Lunges forward?

I turned off the sound and changed the settings to slow-motion. I didn't see any lunging. I saw an overhand motion. Twice.

Come on,what is this picking on words.
lunge[SUP]1[/SUP]
lʌn(d)ʒ/
noun

• 1.
  a sudden forward thrust of the body, typically with an arm outstretched to attack someone or seize something.
  
  

 

[OliviaG1996]

Thank you for your condolences.

The parents lying about him being asleep shows them as liars, not him. I have no reason to think he knew they killed her. I think they duped him too.

We don't have the size of the pyjama pants, but even if they were Burke's and JonBenet had not been wearing them, they could have been left there from the day before, not that night. We don't know whether it was a smear or bigger, or how it got there. We do know that JBR had inside out pants that were soiled on her bathroom floor too, and an unflushed toilet. That sounds like she had an accident.

There was a time delay of upwards of 30 minutes, for pineapple to be in her intestines. Parents still in their daywear, so not in bed.

The bowl was clearly not seen as important to clean up. They probably didn't realise her intestines would be opened, when they said she was asleep.

BBM: Can I have a link to JBR's inside-out pants on her bathroom floor? The unflushed toilet was in the basement, I believe. This doesn't point to JBR. I think PR blamed it on poor Evan.

In those 30 minutes, PR could have still been packing for the following trip and BR could've been with JBR. We don't know if JR was still in his regular clothes.

I disagree that if the R parents knew about the pineapple snack, they would not have seen the importance in either cleaning it up or including JBR eating it in their story of what happened after they came home. It's simpler to believe it wasn't cleaned by the R parents because the R parents didn't even know about the snack.

 

[kanzz]

And death by murder should make his grief more obvious?

Yes I know about the feces. Do you have a source that says he did it? And if he did it, a source that links it to her death and excludes other family members from it that night?

Tortoise -
You said, "There is no evidence he was still feces smearing. That occurred when Patsy had cancer. "
I was simply responding.
Burke was the one with the history of scatolia. History is the best predictor of behavior. No links required.

 

[Tortoise]

BBM: Can I have a link to JBR's inside-out pants on her bathroom floor? The unflushed toilet was in the basement, I believe. This doesn't point to JBR. I think PR blamed it on poor Evan.

No it was her toilet in her bathroom too.

[FONT=&quot]24 THOMAS HANEY: I think we left off,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 finished with number 18, and it's a bathroom, so[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0273[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 1 go to 19.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one looks like[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3 somebody went to the potty and didn't flush.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, is that out of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 the ordinary?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not terribly, no.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 THOMAS HANEY: Did you -- did you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 take JonBenet to the bathroom prior to putting[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9 her to bed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 gotten up during the night and gone to the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 bathroom?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 THOMAS HANEY: If she did, would[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 she have flushed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not necessarily.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

I'll post the bit about the pants inside out on her bathroom floor when I find it. It's a long old interview to search.[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise -
You said, "There is no evidence he was still feces smearing. That occurred when Patsy had cancer. "
I was simply responding.
Burke was the one with the history of scatolia. History is the best predictor of behavior. No links required.

It's not evidence if you don't know how it got there, and it's certainly not evidence of who killed her.

There are no accounts of him still smearing.

 

[OliviaG1996]

No it was her toilet in her bathroom too.

[FONT="]24 THOMAS HANEY: I think we left off,[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 finished with number 18, and it's a bathroom, so[/FONT]
[FONT="]0273[/FONT]
[FONT="] 1 go to 19.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one looks like[/FONT]
[FONT="] 3 somebody went to the potty and didn't flush.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, is that out of[/FONT]
[FONT="] 5 the ordinary?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not terribly, no.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 7 THOMAS HANEY: Did you -- did you[/FONT]
[FONT="] 8 take JonBenet to the bathroom prior to putting[/FONT]
[FONT="] 9 her to bed?[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 gotten up during the night and gone to the[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 bathroom?[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 THOMAS HANEY: If she did, would[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 she have flushed?[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not necessarily.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

I'll post the bit about the pants inside out on her bathroom floor when I find it. It's a long old interview to search.[/FONT]

Thank you, but it doesn't state that it was JBR's toilet, Haney just says, "it's a bathroom". I really wish they were clearer in the interviews, otherwise what's the point?