The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[Jersey*Girl]

Yes!! You're right. I remember her friends being aware of it also. I guess it's just the wording and reporting. Thank you so much for clearing that up for me!! [emoji4]

Yes, it was prior but could be both dates. Some of Heather's coworkers posted online that Tammy sent Heather some very graphic texts of something Sidney was doing to her and it upset Heather while she was at work. She showed some of these coworkers bc she was shaken up, one of the posters said they saw the picture text with their own eyes. From what they wrote online, they gave this info to police so they'd investigate Sidney and/or Tammy. This was way before Tammy & Sidney were arrested for indecent exposure and was on a previous date than her last seen. Then Tammy & Sidney faced these IE charges and it confused all of us bc of the dates of said IE listed. So either the IE happened on more than one date in time or else the police used the last dates given to at least throw down a much needed charge. If investigators have the cellphone the pictures were texted from, they could search that old data and pull geo coordinates from where the IE originated. I happen to think they were freaky & marked their territory on various occasions and places.

 

[Dixie E]

Here is a quote from the solicitor that I saved. Does it sound like they did that after H disappeared or am I reading it wrong.

"Elder said during initial interviews with police, the Moorers admitted to going to different areas of the Myrtle Beach area in the early morning hours of Dec. 18 after Elvis’ disappearance to have sexual relations. Those incidents led to the indecent exposure charges."

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Here is a quote from the solicitor that I saved. Does it sound like they did that after H disappeared or am I reading it wrong.

"Elder said during initial interviews with police, the Moorers admitted to going to different areas of the Myrtle Beach area in the early morning hours of Dec. 18 after Elvis’ disappearance to have sexual relations. Those incidents led to the indecent exposure charges."

Hi Dixie E. :seeya: Yes, they're charged with IE for what they did Dec 18-19 based on what Sidney & Tammy told police, & I guess maybe police pulled camera footage that could have caught them on tape as well to validate their story...idk. However, Heather's coworkers let police know that Tammy sent Heather explicit pictures of herself with Sidney way before then, so that could have helped push le in a certain direction. It's not printed in the news what her coworkers said as they posted it online but the following corroborates what they told police, hope this helps end the confusion... I'm hoping police were able to pull the mms data from back then to show how crazy Tammy was acting toward Heather.

http://www.wsav.com/story/24992456/...-accused-of-killing-20-year-old-missing-woman

The hearing, which was scheduled for 2 pm and lasted until 3:30 pm, allowed the prosecution to present a PowerPoint to Judge Johns that included multiple elements of evidence not made public until Monday's hearing. The prosecution's presentation outlined communications between the Moorers and Heather Elvis starting as early as November and up until the night heather vanished on December 18.

The prosecution noted a relationship between Sidney Moorer and Heather Elvis blossomed in June 2013 and ended in October when it was discovered by Tammy Moorer. When Tammy Moorer learned of the relationship, she contacted Heather Elvis multiple times, sending explicit photos and messages to Heather, the prosecution said.

The discovery of the relationship between Sidney Moorer and Heather Elvis prompted Tammy Moorer, according to prosecutors, to allegedly go to work with her husband, monitor all cell phone activity and handcuff him.

 

[Dixie E]

Thank you Jersey Girl. It does clear things up. I visit Myrtle Beach during the winter months and have been watching this case. Hopefully, something will happen soon.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

I was revisiting this thread because I had some questions about the phone calls, surveillance video, and overall timeline during the 18th. Now, I have more questions than answers! :scared:

My original question was about the timeframe in which LE states the M's kidnapped and killed HE at PTL. I still can't get over the limited amount of time involved although I understand it is surely possible. So, what is the general consensus then? 1-3 minutes?

I was also thinking again about the times of the surveillance cameras. I highly doubt that both camera systems were in sync/set to the exact same time (up to and including the seconds), so when compared together, the timing would have a [SUB]X[/SUB]+/- degree of accuracy, no?

The camera footage is certainly a huge piece of evidence which I cannot wait to see! Plus, if they were able to make decent enhancements to show who was driving to and from PTL. They were certainly driving a lot faster from PTL!

At least for me... there still seems to be some question, disinformation(?), or uncertainty about the last use/ping of HE's phone.

1. Last time HE used phone at 3:41AM vs. 6AM (ping?)
2. Who had possession/control of phone at 6AM?
3. Where is HE's phone?

Police records discuss phone calls between Heather Elvis, older man as late as 6 a.m. December 18

A police report says Elvis’ father contacted T-Mobile, his cellular provider, which the report says provided him with a call history for the victim’s phone.

According to the report, the last phone calls were at about 6 a.m. Dec. 18, about four hours after Elvis and Shiraldi ended their date.

The calls were back and forth between the victim and the older man, the report said.

VS.

Bond denied; Texts, phone calls unveiled in Heather Elvis case hearing

Her phone data ends at that point. 3:41 am.

It will also be interesting to see how TM's phone usage plays into the timeline!

I snagged a few good posts from this thread and posted them below as a recap:

Terry Elvis got it right from Day 1. The phone records do not lie. He went online and looked at the activity log and reported it to police.

If the 6 a.m. time is truly a "roundabout" communications time, then there should be calls on the log closer to that time.

We've also heard that the 6 a.m. time was a last ping time, then we heard that the police did not want to discuss pings. My feeling is that if you don't want pings entering the picture, don't add a last known ping to the mix, and then call it part of the "back and forth" communications between the victim and suspect.

So Terry Elvis saw what he saw, there was nothing complicated about it, and if I go on my carrier website right now, I can see the text I just sent two minutes ago acknowledging my friend's text that she's running late. Should I disappear between now and the time she arrives, and my phone is destroyed, or my Mac is nuked, it will be clear enough to anyone checking my logs as to when I stopped communicating.

In that event, please tell the public my time stamp on this post is the right time, should there be other claims.

I agree, but we don't know if she was texting or sending other types of pm's during this time. I'm very curious to find out how that all plays out.

I think I have a theory with the phone data timeline issue. We know Heather was trying to call SM's phone from PTL and it went unanswered. I think TM and SM were savvy enough to disable their phone during their trip to PTL. IF Heather was also trying to text. . .an SMS message can be stored in the network and delivered later when the recipient phone becomes available again. My theory is that SM didn't turn his phone back on till around 6am. . .and a SMS (text) sent from before 3:41am from Heather's phone, finally went through near 6am.

http://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-sms-280988/

Idk if this is what happened, but it's a possibility.

Phone call refresher:

Here is the timeline that the prosecution presented of Dec. 18:

1:35 am.. phone call from pay phone by Sidney to Heather.. call is 4:53 minutes

1:44 Heather calls (person unidentified) who is in Florida at the time. And says Sidney just called and is leaving Tammy. Heather appears upset because she had been trying to get her life back on track after the affair and the harassment by Tammy. Heather is still at her home when she makes this call. The call lasts 2:20 minutes.

2:29 Heather attempts to call the number Sidney called from which is a pay phone. Several times it does not appear anyone answered.

3:16 am Heather attempts to call Sidney's phone with no response.

3:17 am .. Heather calls Sidney's phone and has a 4:15 minutes conversation with Sidney. Heather is at her home at this point. Sidney is at his home which is approx. 3 miles from the boat landing. After this conversation, Heather gets into her car and drives directly to Peachtree Boat Landing. Sidney also denies this conversation until police confront him with Heather's phone record and then he says he did talk to her but it was just to tell her to quit calling and leave them alone.

3:38 am.. Heather attempts to call Sidney's phone. She has arrived at the boat landing at the time of this call. She attempts to call at 3:39, 3:39:46 and 3:41..

Her phone data ends at that point. 3:41 am.

3:36 am.. A private residence video surveillance captures a vehicle coming from the direction of Sidney's headed towards the boat landing. This camera is 1.7 miles from the Moorer's residence.

3:39 am ... a business video surveillance a mile from the first camera closer to the landing captures this vehicle still proceeding in the direction of the boat landing.

3:45 am.. same business video surveillance captures the vehicle coming from the boat landing headed towards the Moorer residence. The camera is approximately 1.2 miles from the landing.

3:46 am the private residence video surveillance captures the vehicle headed from the boat landing to the Moorer residence.
http://www.wbtw.com/story/24992456/...-accused-of-killing-20-year-old-missing-woman

I'm just going to throw this out there and see what happens:

I used the formula: Time = Distance/Speed.

Suspect Vehicle (F150) leaves M Compound at 3:29 - is spotted by #1 camera at 3:36 1.7 mi from Compound (Known fact) - spotted by #2 camera at 3:39 1.2 mi from #1 camera (or 2.9 mi from Compound) - (known fact). Vehicle should have arrived at PTL at 3:41. Average speed is ~24 MPH for the 3.9 miles trip to PTL.

Suspect vehicle leaves PTL at 3:44 - spotted by #2 camera at 3:46 1.2 mi from PTL (known fact) - spotted by #1 camera at 3:48 1.7 mi from the #2 camera (2.9 mi total) - known fact. Suspect vehicle should have arrived at the Compound at 3:50. Average speed is ~70 MPH. They were flying!

And, by this theory, they only had about 3 minutes - not 6 - to kidnap Heather.

I know this is not 100% correct so please be gentle - it's only a theory to demonstrate the time/speed relationship.

I get different numbers, and different numbers yet depending on how the seconds were on the time.

Confirmed times on the way there:
Camera 1: 3:36
Camera 2: 3:39

If Camera 1 just turned 3:36 and camera 2 just turned 3:39, then the time is 3 minutes to go 1.7 miles. See below for other options.

There are 60 minutes in an hour. Three minutes of travel time is 3/60. You have to multiply the hours worth of minutes (60) times the distance, then divide by 3 (because we are figuring Miles per Hour) The result is 34MPH (check the result here:http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html

Confirmed times on the way back:
Camera 2: 3:46
Camera 1: 3:48

If Camera 2 just turned 3:46 and Camera 1 just turned 3:48, then the time is 2 minutes to go 1.7 miles. See below for other options. Using the above equation, we get 51MPH

That makes travel MPH 34 MPH going to PTL and 51 MPH from PTL.

However, say on the way there, Camera 1 just turned 3:36 and Camera 2 was actually 3:39:59. That would be three minutes and 59 seconds. The vehicle would be traveling traveling 25.6 MPH.

If, on the return trip, Camera 2 just turned 3:46 and Camera 1 was 3:48:59, that would be 2 minutes and 59 seconds, and the vehicle would be traveling 34.2 mph.

So MPH to PTL from Camera 1 to Camera 2 is 25.6mph to 34mph.
And away from PTL from Camera 2 to Camera 2 is 34.2mph to 51mph.

Then there is the whole physics thing where a car doesn't start out at the MPH measured between two markers after the car gets rolling, so the car did not go 34.2-51mph from PTL to Camera 2, but would average slightly slower, blah, blah.

Yes, they were going faster on the way back, and IF it were 51MPH, that's pretty peppy. But it isn't 70 mph. I can do more math showing how many minutes it could be at PTL, but suffice it to say I'm pretty sure it's still not more than 6-7 minutes.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I was revisiting this thread because I had some questions about the phone calls, surveillance video, and overall timeline during the 18th. Now, I have more questions than answers! :scared:

My original question was about the timeframe in which LE states the M's kidnapped and killed HE at PTL. I still can't get over the limited amount of time involved although I understand it is surely possible. So, what is the general consensus then? 1-3 minutes?

I was also thinking again about the times of the surveillance cameras. I highly doubt that both camera systems were in sync/set to the exact same time (up to and including the seconds), so when compared together, the timing would have a [SUB]X[/SUB]+/- degree of accuracy, no?

The camera footage is certainly a huge piece of evidence which I cannot wait to see! Plus, if they were able to make decent enhancements to show who was driving to and from PTL. They were certainly driving a lot faster from PTL!

At least for me... there still seems to be some question, disinformation(?), or uncertainty about the last use/ping of HE's phone.

1. Last time HE used phone at 3:41AM vs. 6AM (ping?)
2. Who had possession/control of phone at 6AM?
3. Where is HE's phone?

VS.

​

It will also be interesting to see how TM's phone usage plays into the timeline!

I snagged a few good posts from this thread and posted them below as a recap:

BBM: Used the phone, or the phone tried to connect to something? If, say, there was a text that hadn't gone through for some reason, it might have been actually sent at a later time. Or there may have been a text, call or email coming in, and no one answered. (You've already rightfully implied that it could have been anyone or no one holding the phone when the last activity happened).

Because of the limited time involved at PTL, I have always wondered why they think it was the place where Heather was killed. I'm still more likely to believe that SM drove up, Heather got in, and they drove off. That would take about 30 seconds. And what happened to Heather happened elsewhere. But I agree that the two cameras, unless set to the atomic clock, could be off by a considerable amount, making the window at PTL even as much as 10-12 minutes. Now that could be enough time for murder to happen.

 

[Surfside]

Because of the limited time involved at PTL, I have always wondered why they think it was the place where Heather was killed. I'm still more likely to believe that SM drove up, Heather got in, and they drove off. That would take about 30 seconds. And what happened to Heather happened elsewhere. But I agree that the two cameras, unless set to the atomic clock, could be off by a considerable amount, making the window at PTL even as much as 10-12 minutes. Now that could be enough time for murder to happen.

BBM: I agree that the two cameras were unlikely to share the exact same time. Wouldn't it be pretty easy to sync them, though, in order to figure out the time difference between the two? By comparing the current time of the clock on one of the cameras to something set by an atomic clock, like a cell phone, you would see how many minutes and seconds the camera's clock is off by. Then, you do the same math on the other camera's clock. A little more math, and you can fairly easily figure out an accurate amount of time it took for the truck to travel from one camera to the other. Am I thinking too simply or is that not a possible way to address the discrepancies?

 

[Ghostwheel]

BBM: I agree that the two cameras were unlikely to share the exact same time. Wouldn't it be pretty easy to sync them, though, in order to figure out the time difference between the two? By comparing the current time of the clock on one of the cameras to something set by an atomic clock, like a cell phone, you would see how many minutes and seconds the camera's clock is off by. Then, you do the same math on the other camera's clock. A little more math, and you can fairly easily figure out an accurate amount of time it took for the truck to travel from one camera to the other. Am I thinking too simply or is that not a possible way to address the discrepancies?

Yes, you could certainly figure the discrepancies that way. I must assume LE has done so. But I don't necessarily assume that they told us the adjusted times, if times needed to be adjusted.

 

[Amelia398]

This quote from Heather's roommate breaks my heart.


"Heather's roommate, Brianna Warrelmann, joined the family at Thursday night's vigil. Brianna hasn't said anything over the last year.

However, Thursday night she revealed the details of her last conversation with Heather.

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained."

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/27667487/elvis-family-attends-their-daughters-one-year-prayer-vigil

 

[jillycat]

This quote from Heather's roommate breaks my heart.


"Heather's roommate, Brianna Warrelmann, joined the family at Thursday night's vigil. Brianna hasn't said anything over the last year.

However, Thursday night she revealed the details of her last conversation with Heather.

Warrelmann was out of town the night Heather disappeared. She said she was visiting family in Florida, but they were on the phone late at night. She said Heather was telling her about Sidney.

"She told me that he told her that he left his wife and he wanted to see her, and that he missed her and he wanted to be with her. And my immediate instinct was don't do it - don't do it. You've been doing so good. She hadn't talked to him, she hadn't talked about him," Warrelmann explained."

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/27667487/elvis-family-attends-their-daughters-one-year-prayer-vigil

So this confirms that the fling was over and there had been no contact, so why that night/early morning? Why did TM, who is, in my opinion, the 'mastermind' here, decide to kill Heather at that time?

I continue to believe this was well-planned and she will never be found. I also think the M's feel solid about their case or one of them would have rolled by now.

 

[Delta Dawn]

So this confirms that the fling was over and there had been no contact, so why that night/early morning? Why did TM, who is, in my opinion, the 'mastermind' here, decide to kill Heather at that time?

I continue to believe this was well-planned and she will never be found. I also think the M's feel solid about their case or one of them would have rolled by now.

You know how sometimes when you're young and a friend gives you advice and you pretend to follow it but all along when the friend isn't looking, that advisement is out the door? She says Heather told her it was over and they hadn't had any contact but for Heather to meet him at such a late hour, I just can't help but think they had been having contact that they were keeping 'on the down low' since TM had found out.

JMO

 

[lovinlife83]

So this confirms that the fling was over and there had been no contact, so why that night/early morning? Why did TM, who is, in my opinion, the 'mastermind' here, decide to kill Heather at that time?

I continue to believe this was well-planned and she will never be found. I also think the M's feel solid about their case or one of them would have rolled by now.

I believe one of two scenarios happened.
1. he really was leaving Tammy. She heard him getting ready to leave and hid in back of his truck, armed. When they got down to PTL she made herself known.

2. On their 3 week vacation to WDL it was eating away at her that he cheated and HE had ruined her perfect family. She decided when they got back to take care of the situation. She had him call HE (under force) and set up a meeting, she went to PTL and took care of the situation herself.

<mod snip>

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Surfside]

I believe one of two scenarios happened.
1. he really was leaving Tammy. She heard him getting ready to leave and hid in back of his truck, armed. When they got down to PTL she made herself known.

2. On their 3 week vacation to WDL it was eating away at her that he cheated and HE had ruined her perfect family. She decided when they got back to take care of the situation. She had him call HE (under force) and set up a meeting, she went to PTL and took care of the situation herself.

Also, rumor is that one of them has started singing. Maybe the "under seal" filings have to do with this and a possible rumored situation HE was having that gave motive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree with #1 & #2 being strong possibilities, but could you elaborate on the rumor "that one of them has started singing?" I don't recall reading or hearing that anywhere and would just LOVE for it to be true. TIA.

 

[New2MB]

I find it interesting that we all figured that was the conversation that went on with her roommate, even though it was reported that it was about what a great time she had with the date. Good move on the police/media's part, because I bet that was HUGE in their investigation.
Just wish she hadn't gone to meet him.

 

[Madeleine74]

I find it interesting that we all figured that was the conversation that went on with her roommate, even though it was reported that it was about what a great time she had with the date. Good move on the police/media's part, because I bet that was HUGE in their investigation.
Just wish she hadn't gone to meet him.

I remember reading reports at the time that the roommate had said Heather called her after hearing from Sidney and she was upset because she had been trying to stay away from him. I don't think I'm hallucinating this....

 

[TTF14]

I remember reading reports at the time that the roommate had said Heather called her after hearing from Sidney and she was upset because she had been trying to stay away from him. I don't think I'm hallucinating this....

No, you're not. But the part about "because she had been trying to stay away from him" was the part that wasn't, and still hasn't been said specifically. IIRC, what was said that she was upset that SM told her on the phone he was leaving his wife. And we were wondering, why would that upset Heather? We speculated, "well, maybe because she had been trying to stay away." The conversation relayed by her roommate somewhat confirms that theory. Her roommate trying to convince her to not see him/start up again, and Heather getting emotional in an "Oh, I just don't know what to do! I'm so sick of the back and forth!" kind of way. Remember, that conversation was late and she'd been on a date and possibly (???) drinking on her date. Not saying she was intoxicated, but when I'm tired and have had a few drinks, I've been known to be overly emotional. (Also while completely sober and wide awake )

 

[TTF14]

I think this was either totally and completely pre-meditated at length and SM tricked HE from the get-go with that planned out phone call, or SM and TM got into a fight on their date/sex jaunt about town, and she made him get out of the truck at that gas station, so he called Heather because he'd had enough of his crazy wife. TM ended up picking SM up from the station after that call (or maybe his parents did), then from there, not sure how they got HE to PTL (or, I should say how TM took over at that point).

I really lean toward this NOT being a heartless set-up by SM (my first scenario), but more like the second scenario I posted. I just do not understand how/why SM would not have rolled by now (or soon after) if that was the case. Unless TM had him so brain-washed that he'd never be believed since he's the one who had the affair with her.

I believe LE knows her cause of death because of evidence they found, and it's, for some reason, a type of death that will make it impossible for her body to ever be found. What that could be, I have no idea, but I do believe they've pretty much lost chance of ever being able to provide the Elvis family with their daughter's physical remains to say goodbye to .

This is all my opinion.

 

[New2MB]

I remember reading reports at the time that the roommate had said Heather called her after hearing from Sidney and she was upset because she had been trying to stay away from him. I don't think I'm hallucinating this....

I agree- I thought I remembered hearing that too, but then I thought things changed to it being about the date. So many things were posted on the FB page that were never verified, I can't keep it all straight with where I heard things!

 

[TedMac]

I believe one of two scenarios happened.
1. he really was leaving Tammy. She heard him getting ready to leave and hid in back of his truck, armed. When they got down to PTL she made herself known.

2. On their 3 week vacation to WDL it was eating away at her that he cheated and HE had ruined her perfect family. She decided when they got back to take care of the situation. She had him call HE (under force) and set up a meeting, she went to PTL and took care of the situation herself.

Also, rumor is that one of them has started singing. Maybe the "under seal" filings have to do with this and a possible rumored situation HE was having that gave motive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BBM I believe that your 2nd scenario is the closest to what happened. However, I do not believe that Sidney was forced to be involved. I think he is 50% of Heather's demise. While he may have been somewhat reluctant, he participated in this and may have actually killed her. I believe if you read Jillycat's last post, she nailed it. This entire sordid scheme...the set-up, the murder and the body disposal was well-planned in advance. This is why the body is so well hidden and may never be found.

I have never heard a rumor of either of the M's "singing" and would be interested to read a link if one exists. It would be great if one of them would roll over on the other and tell us where Heather is.

 

[jillycat]

You know how sometimes when you're young and a friend gives you advice and you pretend to follow it but all along when the friend isn't looking, that advisement is out the door? She says Heather told her it was over and they hadn't had any contact but for Heather to meet him at such a late hour, I just can't help but think they had been having contact that they were keeping 'on the down low' since TM had found out.

JMO

First of all, I don't think we know the extent of the conversation between the roommate and Heather, despite the summary in the news. Secondly, if you're seeing someone and know what's going on in your relationship, why get upset when you get another call about meeting somewhere?

And, since I don't buy that SM was conducting business as usual that night/early morning, and he was complicit in a murder, I think Heather's concern re: meeting him was a product of the TM/SM lure not registering as quite right with her. I don't think anything about that early morning made sense to Heather and this is why she didn't jump at the first opportunity to rush to the side of SM.

So if the affair was on, what's not appealing about getting together to talk permanent relationship?

JMO