The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[cocowiley]

I don't know. Maybe because she was the type of person who wanted to turn one little bruise on a two year old into a life time of abuse at the hands of every adult who ever came in contact with her?

chilly, listen to yuri's testimony in the bond hearing, he did not say the hairdresser reported one little bruise, he said she saw bruises on her arms and legs as well as one on her eye.

i've never really put much thought in to caylee being abused, neglected maybe but never physically hit or anything, then i watched YM's testimony, and he obviously seemed to think it was worth investigating, especially since the child in question was, at the time missing, and now murdered.

sorry, can't convince me otherwise, caylee had been previously abused prior to the events that led to her death.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't think that it is unbelievable at all. This family let KC tell them that little Caylee was at a nanny (which they never met nor seen) for 31 days and didn't seem to question it much.

I don't get your logic. If Cindy believed Caylee was with the nanny it means Cindy and George physically abused her?

 

[forensicbuff5747]

We don't know the extent of the activities that Casey and her flavor of the night did in bed - it's all assumption to this point

I know of some families that let their young children sleep in bed with them - difference here, Casey it was whatever guy she was with (we know of Ricardo and Tony) - Casey wasn't stable in any means and to have a random guy in bed and Caylee there too, is not something that should have happened

We do know that Caylee was exposed to Casey's 'parties' and was showing behavior that was not like a 2 1/2 year old

So was that okay too?

What behavior are you talking about? She seemed like a very normal, happy child. :waitasec:

 

[Mermaid]

then that leaves only one option.
a good nurse, which she clearly is, would know a 7mo pregnant woman, and would not mistake the smell of death for pizza.

she would also not likely abuse or neglect her granddaughter, and not let her out into inappropriate party-type situations if she knows that is what is happening.

if caylee was in fact being brought to drug and sex parties like everyone seems to think, i do not think that CA knew about it. she obviously loved caylee and liked to play the overbearing mommy over KC and exert herself as a mommy to caylee when she could.

no way she was knowingly letting that go on or neglecting to stop KC from doing something she didnt agree with.

BTW, you say this like she is still working there?? there was a question regarding this earlier on the GA jobs thread, someone wondered if they both stopped working now.

I believe Cindy was definitely in denial over the pregnancy; I've seen it happen before. As for the smell of death, I believe she knew what it was, as evidenced by her 911 phone call. She later backtracked in an effort to protect Casey.

I agree with everything you said, I believe Cindy adored Caylee and was emotionally unable to handle the idea that perhaps Casey was not the good mother that she so fervently hoped that she would be.

IMHO

 

[Jin4one]

I don't get your logic. If Cindy believed Caylee was with the nanny it means Cindy and George physically abused her?

No, what I mean is that nothing with this family seems far-fetched, anything and everything seems to happen with this family. I personally dont think the grandparents did anything to hurt Caylee.

 

[ma2patrick]

they're kinda like drunk midgets!

OMG I just spewed root beer out my nose.

Thank you for that.

Now give my a buck 50 for my soda.

 

[mydailyopinions]

chilly, listen to yuri's testimony in the bond hearing, he did not say the hairdresser reported one little bruise, he said she saw bruises on her arms and legs as well as one on her eye.

i've never really put much thought in to caylee being abused, neglected maybe but never physically hit or anything, then i watched YM's testimony, and he obviously seemed to think it was worth investigating, especially since the child in question was, at the time missing, and now murdered.

sorry, can't convince me otherwise, caylee had been previously abused prior to the events that led to her death.

Okay, I adore Yuri, but for one, he doesn't have children, so the normal everyday bruises that happen, he wouldn't know about on a personal level. Yuri was concerned about the bruises because of the decomp in the car. I don't think he has ever thought that Caylee was abused by either Casey nor her parents or anyone else for that matter. He associated the decomp with the bruises. I respectfully disagree that she was abused anything prior to the day of her death and the abuse of her body afterwards.

 

[mydailyopinions]

What behavior are you talking about? She seemed like a very normal, happy child. :waitasec:

I agree..
Casey didn't seem normal at all with her lifestyle, but Caylee seemed very normal.

 

[SL_Zero]

I can't find offense in the "snot head" comment the way most people do. One of the common signs for "child" in American Sign Language is a gesture wiggling your fingers below your nose meaning "snot nose child". Its common and accepted and not meant to be derogatory.

It's a common phrase (which I don't use) but people seem to be pouncing on it as if there is some meaning behind it. I don't think there is.

i also don't see much validity in the "snot head" comment. she didnt say it TO caylee, after all. she mentioned it in an IM iirc.

my friends and i have used all sorts of silly euphemisms to refer to our children in conversations amongst adults, always tongue in cheek and never malicious. stuff like ankle biter and mini-me is meant as a joke. heck, we still call my daughter munchkin and she is 12 now, hehe. she's old enough to be in on the joke now. for all we know KC said snot nose because caylee had a cold. i tend to refer to my daughter (and myself) when sick as germ monster. is this abuse?

i know the KC case is fascinating and has all sorts of angles and twists and turns and is so interesting to speculate... but sometimes i see little things getting blown out of proportion and i wonder what our lives would look like under such a microscope. i pride myself on being a good mother and wife and friend but i bet a lot of stuff i do or have done could paint me like a crazy sociopath if thats how someone wanted to see me.

ps - @mermaid wow it must be tough for you working with CA and seeing some of the things people say about someone you know and like (myself included) :ashamed0005:

 

[princess]

What behavior are you talking about? She seemed like a very normal, happy child. :waitasec:

Ricardo did say in his interview with LE that Caylee was a little flirt.

A grown man making a statement like that bothers me for many reasons.

Was Caylee brought to so many parties and places that she had to find some sort of way to get the attention from the "men" Casey brought her around I do not mean sexual, I mean just regular attention a toddler would want.
Maybe Caylee was imitating the way her own Mom acted around men.
Either way... not something you normally hear from a grown man when describing a 2 year old toddler.
:waitasec:

 

[msinformed]

There's such a thing as being willfully blind to the warning signals. (Don't wanna know.)

Right your are, Themis.

CA did not want to know. The A's was dealing with their own problems, i.e., financial ruin, nutjobs for children (LA & KC) and a very unstable marriage, at best.

CA, IMO, WANTED KC to be the "perfect mother," for in her (CA's) world the facade is what matters most, and THAT continues even now!

She refused to babysit on occasion and when she did babysit, would call KC to tell her "it's time to come home." She, I believe, wanted "to teach KC a lesson" by attempting to force her to be responsible (knowing it was NEVER going to happen), therefore, only going "so far" regarding the hands-on, day to day care of Caylee - all at Caylee's expense ........ no one suffered but Caylee.

Stubborn, controlling CA, in the quiet of night, now, surely must play this over and over in her mind and she will forever have to live with the consequences of her inactions!

I don't think CA wanted the responsibility of rearing another child, and, therefore, took KC at her word re: "the nanny," the job and all KC's other lies. It was just easier for CA to turn a blind eye to what she really knew was the behavior of a very unstable, unfeeling daughter.

Yes, CA bought all the "right" things for Caylee ....... loads of toys, clothes, prepared and decorated a beautiful room for her, but I just believe deep down, she wasn't THAT committed to her granddaughter and her well-being. She had way too much other baggage/garbage to deal with daily.

Otherwise, she, knowing KC's sociopath personality, would have been MUCH more involved, aware of everything relating to Caylee. However, she wasn't, couldn't be bothered, 'cause she had too much of her own s*!t to deal with ........ poor Baby Caylee - never had a chance in that household.

 

[cocowiley]

Okay, I adore Yuri, but for one, he doesn't have children, so the normal everyday bruises that happen, he wouldn't know about on a personal level. Yuri was concerned about the bruises because of the decomp in the car. I don't think he has ever thought that Caylee was abused by either Casey nor her parents or anyone else for that matter. He associated the decomp with the bruises. I respectfully disagree that she was abused anything prior to the day of her death and the abuse of her body afterwards.

it really bothers me when people say "oh, you don't have kids so you don't know what it's like"...

i respectfully disagree with you, the man is a cop, who i believe works on the child abuse/missing persons unit..the man is a professional..he knows the difference between an everyday bruise and something worse.

and again, i'm not saying anyone other than casey is to blame for any abuse.

 

[Bev]

I wonder why people have this notion that only children who have been abused are killed by their parents? I suppose this makes us feel better about ourselves to think that anyone who does something like this is a "sociopath" or a "psychopath" or mentally ill instead of accepting the fact that human beings are capable of the most awful, terrible behavior to others and especially children who cannot protect themselves. Until we're able as humans to admit and accept the fact that we are ALL capable of committing horrendous acts, we'll never be able to do anything about fixing the problem.

Loving, good parents can snap or kill their children for reasons known only to themselves, it isn't always the child abusers or the rotten parents who do this kind of thing.

 

[trac]

No link, sorry.

I am also a Gentiva employee, that's how I know.

If your an employee there - then I would suggest not posting things that LE doesn't want posted - I don't know if anyone else would agree, but you are saying things that quite frankly heresay and could get you in trouble

Just trying to not let you go down a road like we've seen others that THINK they have an inside track - a few have disappeared from here for reasons that aren't nice and they were grilled here

 

[cocowiley]

I wonder why people have this notion that only children who have been abused are killed by their parents? I suppose this makes us feel better about ourselves to think that anyone who does something like this is a "sociopath" or a "psychopath" or mentally ill instead of accepting the fact that human beings are capable of the most awful, terrible behavior to others and especially children who cannot protect themselves. Until we're able as humans to admit and accept the fact that we are ALL capable of committing horrendous acts, we'll never be able to do anything about fixing the problem.

Loving, good parents can snap or kill their children for reasons known only to themselves, it isn't always the child abusers or the rotten parents who do this kind of thing.

i can only speak for myself but that is not my argument at all, i think casey was frustrated with both cindy and not being able to do the things she did before she had caylee and she took her frustration out on her at times. obviously, one of those times led to her death, accidental or otherwise.

 

[Salome]

Y

snipped

I know what you're saying in terms of Casey, though. I just have no problem believing Caylee saw some pretty adult things. There's been a lot of innuendo here and elsewhere about sex parties, etc. If she was exposed to that....gah. Casey doesn't seem the type to sacrifice a good time in order to make sure Caylee was elsewhere.

All of the innuendo has been from posters on message boards who were never at any parties or bars or clubs with KC or with her friends. No single friend of KC -- old or new -- has said anything about sex parties. And certainly nothing to the effect that Caylee was ever around adult sex or sexual situations. This includes all of the transcripts that have been released and all of the National Enquirer interviews that have been given.

When someone actually in KC's social circle (or at least in contact with it in a reliable way) says something to this effect, I will listen. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to speculate in this way -- no reason provided by the information we have after 5 months of in-depth coverage and discussion of this case.

 

[MomofBoys]

the man is a professional..he knows the difference between an everyday bruise and something worse.

And how is that? I mean, I'd convict Casey for breathing if I was blessed by God enough to end up on that jury. I'd give up toes. That being said, unless there was an indepth medical examination of Caylee prior to her disappearance, I find it hard to believe you could identify the source of a bruise just by looking.

My little boy has a cracked lip right now. Would a professional be able to tell that he tripped and smacked it on the floor, or that he popped himself in the mouth with a chair, or if he was hit? Without a physical exam?

I just find this a dangerous line of speculation, really, because no one can really know.

Now, I do find her bring Caylee into bed with her and her BFs unseemly. It's one thing if it's the child's father and they're in a co-sleeping situation, but with different men? Like I said, I just don't trust Casey to keep things G-rated around her. It was and probably always will be Casey first.

All that being said, I do wonder that if LA and CA loved Caylee that much, why they wouldn't insist on meeting the "nanny." Just once. I know Casey was the mother, but my grandmother is attached enough to my boys that she'd want to meet the person who gave them daily care. It almost seems like KC and CA had a co-parenting relationship, anyway.

Otherwise, I don't see any reason to speculate in this way -- no reason provided by the information we have after 5 months of in-depth coverage and discussion of this case.

I'd agree with you, but I labeled it as speculation. No one is going to take my word as gospel. Plus, we can't assume we know everything or that LE has released everything. Sometimes "innuendo" gains a foothold for a reason.

I was just responding to the people who seemed equally sure everything was innocent. My point was, we don't know.

 

[Chilly Willy]

it really bothers me when people say "oh, you don't have kids so you don't know what it's like"...

i respectfully disagree with you, the man is a cop, who i believe works on the child abuse/missing persons unit..the man is a professional..he knows the difference between an everyday bruise and something worse.

and again, i'm not saying anyone other than casey is to blame for any abuse.

Yuri actually SAW the bruises?

 

[gigi331]

When my friends and I started having our children, we brought them to our parties. Eventually, as we got older, our parties turned into pot-luck dinners lol!

It depends on what is going on at the party and how many people are there. If it's a huge blowout with drugs and booze and tons of people everywhere, many of whom KC didn't know, that's different from a few friends getting together for some beers (and smoking weed which is not right, but not quite as bad as an array of other illegal substances)

It sounds like most of KC's hard core partying happened at places like Fusian rather than in someone's house. Unless I missed something. Therefore Caylee may not have been exposed to horrible things at places like Ricardo's, etc. Being exposed to the trunk of the car while KC was at Fusian is another story.

Yes, I agree with you. However, we get together with friends that also have children. The adults drink and talk over food and snacks and the kids play together. KC's parting with Caylee tagging along is a LOT different. Her parties were mostly young 20-something kids and I'm sure there was a lot of alcohol. drugs, and sex involved. BIG difference.

 

[bessie]

All of the innuendo has been from posters on message boards who were never at any parties or bars or clubs with KC or with her friends. No single friend of KC -- old or new -- has said anything about sex parties. And certainly nothing to the effect that Caylee was ever around adult sex or sexual situations. This includes all of the transcripts that have been released and all of the National Enquirer interviews that have been given.

When someone actually in KC's social circle (or at least in contact with it in a reliable way) says something to this effect, I will listen. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to speculate in this way -- no reason provided by the information we have after 5 months of in-depth coverage and discussion of this case.

How would you classify Caylee sleeping in the same bed with her mother and her mother's boyfriend -- a boyfriend, mind you, whom the tart mom had known for merely a month or two?